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Pitting Players Against High Damaging Monsters


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#21 Annaamarth

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:28 PM

It's a charge.  By definition, that means charging.  If I'm already in your face, I can't charge very well- having some distance to build up momentum is important- and the same goes for a bloodthirster.

 

When I say hit-and-run tactics, I mean 'Fly up, charge down and no dodges thanks.'  That is how that ability works, right?  Kind of like the Khornate Daemon Weapon Rampage ability?


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#22 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:02 PM

It's a charge.  By definition, that means charging.  If I'm already in your face, I can't charge very well- having some distance to build up momentum is important- and the same goes for a bloodthirster.

 

When I say hit-and-run tactics, I mean 'Fly up, charge down and no dodges thanks.'  That is how that ability works, right?  Kind of like the Khornate Daemon Weapon Rampage ability?

 

No, I think you're confusing something. It's not a charge ability. Its "a number of times per combat equal to its Int Bonus the Bloodthirster can make its attacks unavoidable for a round", to paraphrase from memory.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 11 December 2013 - 10:02 PM.


#23 Annaamarth

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:41 PM

Ah, looked it up.  You're right- sorry, took me a bit to find it, and I was making the assumption based on the 'spend a charge to autohit' line used earlier- here I was thinking that was a weird way of phrasing 'make a charge action to autohit', which is the Rampage ability.  With area of affect.  Which I also think a Bloodthirster ought to have, or at least a named one.


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#24 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:22 AM

Anyway, the Bloodthirster should have taken one look at Mr. Super-Dodgy, rolled its canine firey eyes in amusement, and squished him.



#25 Ansalagon

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 07:01 AM

Necrons are Nasty. A traitor might be able to win one-on-one with one of the more dangerous a necrons... But against an army of necrons or the big ones, you HAVE to fight smart. In a full-scale fair combat you can't beat them. Thats what makes them scary. Just like nothing beats the tyranids in a war of attrition. However, where a forcefield, a terminator armor and a dodge can fail you, Cannonfodder won't. Lots of useless heretics made an excelent wall. and you won't even have to feel bad about them, because they are ammo, not soldiers.



#26 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 10:22 AM

Against an army of anything, you have to fight smart.:)

 

Technically a Horde of Necron Warriors actually loses its oomph because Hordes can't do Zealous Hatred. I might house rule that bit out.



#27 Ansalagon

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 07:50 AM

Against an army of anything, you have to fight smart. :)

 

Technically a Horde of Necron Warriors actually loses its oomph because Hordes can't do Zealous Hatred. I might house rule that bit out.

 

Actually i believe it is stated that they CAN get Zealous Hatred because of the Gauss weapons, if the GM feels like it...



#28 Edain

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:28 AM

1) Planet-destroying device like the Exterminatus command
2) A ritual (you'll need the true name of the demon)
3) Another great demon (fight fire with fire) :D
 



#29 Keffisch

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:06 AM

Also,

 

Check out the Horde rules for Grappling.

Then re-read them.

 

>:)



#30 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:32 AM

One way to incorporate super powered things into a story is to have the firepower directed away from the player characters.  For example, you could have two titans battling each other.  So now your CSM are nipping at the enemy titan's heels while it is trying to focus on the main target.
Or

The PCs are defending an artillery line from a cavalry flank.

Or

The PCs are escorting the greater demon to its target so it doesn't get bogged down and fail to arrive in time.

 

While i haven't had a chance to use them, the massed action rules in ToB would be great here.  Everytime the artillery line has stop shooting its main target to hit something from the skirmish, you lose points on the primary target.



#31 Elurindel

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:09 PM

i agree with the previous point on here: If you've ever played Tabletop, you should already know how to fight these things, and it's certainly almost never 1-on-1.



#32 Cinix

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:35 AM

Another thing even 1-on-1 smart players will figure out ways to defeat or survive powerful opponents. Don't underestimate your players. Hell my group got a Bloodthirster to inadvertantly hit itself with one of its attacks. Players can be smart and think outside of the box (Hopefully) especially when faced with do or die situations or extreme odds even if it means running away and figuring out how to take it down when they encounter it next.



#33 Elurindel

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 05:22 PM

How did a Bloodthirster hit itself with its own attack?



#34 Chastity

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:31 PM

How did a Bloodthirster hit itself with its own attack?

 

I think this highlights quite an important issue with the "sufficiently creative players" argument. Often "player creativity" is a euphemism for "GM fiat". Ultimately, any plan that isn't mediated through the game mechanics will only work if the GM wants it to.



#35 Cinix

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:50 AM

Some good information for any GM out there, just remember, not everything is designed to go against a player. Players who pour over the game's mechanics will figure the ins and outs to do crazy **** (SAME AS EVERY RPG OUT THERE!). Also don't forget that you can go to any of the 40k series RPGs and pick stuff up, they all can cross over to each other to get more information more things and new tricks.

 

My GM ended up hating the party because he had to end up creating creatures to throw  at us from the warp because we broke the system BADLY, combine that with the fact that we where just incredibly lucky with dice rolls when we needed it. Face it, no matter what we're looking at here and how much someone has their fan gasm about something being unbeatable or the like, unless they're up against the full fledge power of a god not just a greater manifested deamon there is always a chance of success even if it's very small. This is the nature of RPGs, if a player dies, they die most players won't care in a setting like 40k.



#36 Cinix

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:51 AM

 

How did a Bloodthirster hit itself with its own attack?

 

I think this highlights quite an important issue with the "sufficiently creative players" argument. Often "player creativity" is a euphemism for "GM fiat". Ultimately, any plan that isn't mediated through the game mechanics will only work if the GM wants it to.

 

Player on its shoulder attempted to hit in the head. It used the un-dodgeable attack listed in its profile. Player had a displacement shield that went off. Player was teleported, attack went through. Behold Blood Thirster Face palm.

 

Since you wanted to know.

 

Also yes, thank you. GM's are the final artbiter for any RPG setting. They can even bend the rules if needed. So if you want to make these enemies unbeatable and you're GM remove their stats. Every GM has this option.


Edited by Cinix, 22 August 2014 - 11:54 AM.


#37 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:53 PM

 

Ah yes. My standard rule is, "if its funny, i'll allow it."



#38 Robin Graves

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:10 PM

 

Ah yes. My standard rule is, "if its funny, i'll allow it."

 

 

 

You would make a great GM for "Paranoia".



#39 Ghaundan

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 02:38 AM

Well, let's be honest, a GM who only follows the rules as written in a very strick manner tends to be a boring GM. For instance, another group in the club I'm in plays A Song of Ice and Fire. Intimidate is a social/diplomacy skill there (I'm not 100% into the terms), so when a character who's basically the mountain drew his two handed sword he failed to scare off a peasant. That's just dumb...

Last time I played Only War the ogryn in the party tipped a sentiel because...well, technically he's strong enough to throw it if he's willing to take some fatigue.

One thing though, destroyers are anti tank skimmers. Humans and Space Marines SHOULD get shredded by a destroyer if hit. It's kind of asking why the guys can't take a lascannon to the face without flincing. Be creative, and enemies like that are great at making interesting combats. Running combat, or desperate manouvers to never get caught flatfooted (having dodged against other necron horrors) makes for fun fights. 



#40 DeathByGrotz

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 06:28 AM

We almost got shanked by primitive weaponry last time. Nothing like defenders setting up organ guns and razorwire throwers in a chokepoint to make someone's life miserable :D

 

2d10, Pen 3,  cripping 3, snare

and

3d10, Pen 0, toxic (1)

 

in combo almost killed the lot of us. Good times.

 

(Just don't get me started on rules lawyering in the middle of that...)






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