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Magnum Opus inbalance


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#1 AussieKSU

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:00 PM

There are only a few cards which I feel really tip the balance of this game so far. The biggest culprit of tipping the pendulum in the runner's favor (and if you think the runner is not at an advantage, then I will debate you till I am blue in the face), is the card Magnum Opus.

 

1 card, and all your credit generating problems are over. The only corp card that compares to opus in terms of clicks invested, and credits returned is a card I'm sure many of you play called melange mining corp. The trouble is, mining corp can be trashed, and opus cannot - unless you impale it on an ichi or the like…

Couple Magnum Opus with cards like Vamp, Crypsis, etc. will give the corp a serious headache - taking credits, credits credits, and vamping the corp is still one of my "favorite", although approaching lame, things to do. Trap protection included :P

The corp intrinsically, because of this card is going to almost certainly lose the credit war. Asset credit generation will almost certainly fall short in comparison to the runner's, because as stated, corp assets can be trashed. Commercialization is another story, and another post altogether.

If Opus was 10 to install, and 3 MU, I'd still run it. The corp usually splashes, what, 12+ credit generating cards? The runner needs no more than an Opus and 3 test runs.



#2 Magnus Arcanis

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:52 AM

AussieKSU said:

There are only a few cards which I feel really tip the balance of this game so far. The biggest culprit of tipping the pendulum in the runner's favor (and if you think the runner is not at an advantage, then I will debate you till I am blue in the face), is the card Magnum Opus.

 

1 card, and all your credit generating problems are over. The only corp card that compares to opus in terms of clicks invested, and credits returned is a card I'm sure many of you play called melange mining corp. The trouble is, mining corp can be trashed, and opus cannot - unless you impale it on an ichi or the like…

Couple Magnum Opus with cards like Vamp, Crypsis, etc. will give the corp a serious headache - taking credits, credits credits, and vamping the corp is still one of my "favorite", although approaching lame, things to do. Trap protection included :P

The corp intrinsically, because of this card is going to almost certainly lose the credit war. Asset credit generation will almost certainly fall short in comparison to the runner's, because as stated, corp assets can be trashed. Commercialization is another story, and another post altogether.

If Opus was 10 to install, and 3 MU, I'd still run it. The corp usually splashes, what, 12+ credit generating cards? The runner needs no more than an Opus and 3 test runs.

Ehhh…. I wouldn't go quite that far.

While Opus is a 'bare minimum' style of card I wouldn't go as far as saying it's unbalancing. The runner and corp operate differently and have different levels of the same need.

It's very clear the Corp is supposed to operate on less stable credit gain. While some may disagree with (flavor wise it seems like a bit of a miss, but I don't know much about A:N universe) why this should be, but based on cards released so far it is very clear. So the argument that the runner's credit gain via Magnum Opus is unfair seems to be by design.

Now, you could go into that Magnum Opus gives the runner too much of an advantage over other options, but if you ask me while Magnus Opus is a decent bare minimum card… it is not the end all, be all credit gainer available. In fact, I would actually argue that even Armitage Codebusting is actually a better fit for most, if not all, decks. (I could be flaking on the name, but the 1 cost neutral resource that holds 12 credits).



#3 AussieKSU

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:32 AM

Yes, you got it right - armitage codebusting.

 

However, keep in mind:

-there is no search mechanic for armitage codebusting.

-armitage has a finite number of credits to draw from, meaning you'll need to see multiple of them. A single artmitage means that after a healthy run on a server, you'll need to go find another one to keep you sustained, and another one, and another one…could have saved those cards, clicks, and targetability (it is a resource after all) and play a magnum opus.. done.

-a good arguement pointing out the weakness of opus is the 2MU. However, I think this arguement falls short because there are plenty of ways to find answers to this problem - primarily running the latest shaper with built in MU. Other MU providing cards offer other advantages other than straight MU - cyberdecks for example. 



#4 victorygames

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:22 AM

I've found out the there is almost no problem that a magnum opus and a crypsis can't solve…



#5 Magnus Arcanis

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

AussieKSU said:

Yes, you got it right - armitage codebusting.

 

However, keep in mind:

-there is no search mechanic for armitage codebusting.

-armitage has a finite number of credits to draw from, meaning you'll need to see multiple of them. A single artmitage means that after a healthy run on a server, you'll need to go find another one to keep you sustained, and another one, and another one…could have saved those cards, clicks, and targetability (it is a resource after all) and play a magnum opus.. done.

-a good arguement pointing out the weakness of opus is the 2MU. However, I think this arguement falls short because there are plenty of ways to find answers to this problem - primarily running the latest shaper with built in MU. Other MU providing cards offer other advantages other than straight MU - cyberdecks for example. 

AussieKSU said:

Yes, you got it right - armitage codebusting.

However, keep in mind:

-there is no search mechanic for armitage codebusting.

-armitage has a finite number of credits to draw from, meaning you'll need to see multiple of them. A single artmitage means that after a healthy run on a server, you'll need to go find another one to keep you sustained, and another one, and another one…could have saved those cards, clicks, and targetability (it is a resource after all) and play a magnum opus.. done.

-a good arguement pointing out the weakness of opus is the 2MU. However, I think this arguement falls short because there are plenty of ways to find answers to this problem - primarily running the latest shaper with built in MU. Other MU providing cards offer other advantages other than straight MU - cyberdecks for example. 

It's really an arguement about speed vs stability.

Magnum Opus wants search and often requires extra memory. It has a high cost and theres no benefit to seeing/running more than a single copy. However, it yeilds a solid +1 credit per click bonus that is likely to be with you for the entire game. However, compared to other options takes the longest to see any real benefit.

I suppose thats the issue for me. It's requires too much time and effort for my liking. I'm not saying its a bad card or not worth building around, but of the options we have… its among the worst, not the best.

That being said, I like the idea of not dedicateing a ton of deck space to credit gain and Magnum Opus gives us that option. However, just because Opus gives us the option doesn't make it unbalancing. It is only adding a level of depth in deck building, nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

 



#6 AussieKSU

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

Magnus Arcanis said:

It's very clear the Corp is supposed to operate on less stable credit gain

 

This segways into my next biggest problem with the way things are… the above comment I think is accurate - being that the runner usually has to interact with a single piece of rezzed ice serveral times, they need to generate more credits. However, traces are still on a 1 to 1 rate from corp/runner and additionally, no longer a blind bid - which annihilates the strength of tracing for the corp.

 

 



#7 Magnus Arcanis

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:29 AM

AussieKSU said:

Magnus Arcanis said:

It's very clear the Corp is supposed to operate on less stable credit gain

This segways into my next biggest problem with the way things are… the above comment I think is accurate - being that the runner usually has to interact with a single piece of rezzed ice serveral times, they need to generate more credits. However, traces are still on a 1 to 1 rate from corp/runner and additionally, no longer a blind bid - which annihilates the strength of tracing for the corp.

Tracing does seem like an odd mechanic. I never played the original game, but even if bids were blind I'd probably find it just as odd.

I suppose the 'oddness' comes from the runner's innate ability to simpley remove a tag for 2 credits and click vitually assuring that if a runner chooses to not simply break the subroutine, that they will bid no more than 2. So it relies on the Corp to spend as little as possible to get their trace value to 2 greater than the runner's link.

Granted, not all traces yeild tags, but you see my point. The runner will never spend more than what is neccessary and the Corp is always left with the decision of how much they want to set themselves back. Add in converion rate of runner credits to corp credits… and you end up with a poor idea for a Corp to even run.  

Traces seem to be an inferior option at this point as for the most part as they seem to be a bit too easy to get through and the penatly for being traced isn't quite threatening enough in most cases. That being said… I'm sure that won't be true forever.  



#8 Tzeechel

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:39 PM

Magnum Opus has its place, but it is far from unbalanced. No server is safe, the runner will always find a way in. The trick is to use that to your advantage. 

I sometimes run an HB trap deck that absolulty loves seeing magnum opus hit the table. Build out ice in front of your R&D (ABT, or Shipment from mirror-morph) so it takes 6-8+credits to get break. Then start building a fort that the runner can break for less, but make the ice porous (Ichi, Victor, Neural Katana, Viper). Place traps in the fort and advance. Use biotic labor and Trick of light to Fast Advance agendas out of hand as you draw them (Great use for an exposed june bug). Or if you don't want to use traps, just place upgrades in your forts to bait the runner. You can stack multiples, and there is nothing like a runner breaking  through a strength 10 archer by way of corporate trouble shooter  to find a priority req and a red herring.

Point being, Opus isn't unbalanced because servers are not meant to be impenatrable. Each faction (or combination of 2) has ways to punish the runner for making runs, use the tools you have at hand and bite back. They'll be much less inclined to just take 8 and run on click 1 next turn.  Granted, there is some nasty synergy with vamp, but Ice with trace routines over HQ will generally go a long way to harm that synergy. 



#9 Rithe

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:51 PM

as much as I hate to rehash what everyone else is saying, kinda want to put my 10p in here.

 

MO is good if you are shaper, if your not shaper its ok, not amazing, but its ok.

 

"unballanced"???..... no.

A card that doesnt see return for at least 3 clicks???... yes



#10 nungunz

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:58 PM

A bit of a necro-post there.

 

I'm going to have to disagree here.  I find MO to be a complete waste of deck space.  It does generate steady econ, yes, but it sets you back quite a ways before you see significant gain.  It nukes you MU, and if you rely on it, a program trash hurts really badly.

 

There are some many better econ cards (Kati, etc) that is supplemented amazingly well by burst econ (Sure Gamble, Dirty Laundry, Account Siphon, Easy Mark, Bank Job, Gabe, Desperado, Datasucker for ice breaking cheapness) that really outshine how slow MO plays.

 

I'd rather be spending my clicks to attack the corporation than be spending my clicks generating case.

 

Honestly, I find MO to be a pretty garbage card in the current card pool.  It used to be an amazing econ card when we had a limited card pool.  Now it's a mediocre card.

 

Notice I didn't say that it's a bad card, it's just....lackluster....MO hasn't really aged well.


Edited by nungunz, 27 October 2013 - 10:59 PM.


#11 etherial

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:54 AM

Notice I didn't say that it's a bad card, it's just....lackluster....MO hasn't really aged well.

 

When it was Core only, my read was "Magnum Opus is a terrible economy card. Magnum Opus is also the best economy card." There are enough other cards now (especially Professional Contacts), that Magnum Opus is simply one option among many.



#12 Surreal

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:19 AM

Magnus Opus discussions are quite old school 2012. Haven't seen that card for sometime in many tournament decks because runner has a way better credit options now (especially Kati, Daily casts and Contracts). Those 2 saved MUs can be used for Datasuckers which are very good economy cards also. 

 

MO will set you back by many turns when corp has a window to score. MO is a good card if your corp players play slow and click for credits and doesn't draw. This isn't very optional play thought. Don't be afraid to draw and play corp aggressive if runner gives you a perfect window to score by installing a MO.


Edited by Surreal, 28 October 2013 - 08:20 AM.


#13 frybender

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

MO still has some use since it's much more tutorable then Katie Jones or PC and although hostage cut that advantage there are still way more ways to find and install a program (sometimes for a discount) then a resource. So if you need more consistency then MO still has the advantage but yeah overall there are definitely better cards out there. If the collective wins however, (I certainly hope not) then I think we'll start seeing more of MO again.



#14 TychoTerziev

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:46 PM

Don't forget that Magnum Opus is tag-proof and is not affected by Invasion of Privacy.And installing it for one credit is always sweet. ;)


Edited by TychoTerziev, 31 October 2013 - 03:54 PM.

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