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Prediction: Rohan and Boromir's Journey North


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#1 Style75

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:53 AM

I've been doing a lot of thinking about what the next deluxe expansion and AP series will be about and I've come to the following conclusion:

Deluxe Expansion = Rohan, probably centered around the ascent of Grima Wormtongue and Theoden's slip into delusion.

Adventure Packs = Boromir's journey from Gondor to Rivendell.

Here's my rationale. We know that the timeline will be between the Hobbit and the LotR books. Looking at the big stories that Tolkien wrote for this time period, most of them have already been covered (golum's story, the failed return to Moria by the dwarves, the troubles in Gondor). What's left? Tolkien specifically wrote about the corruption of Saruman, the assault on Dol Guldur, the troubles in Rohan, Boromir's journey north, and the ride of Ring Wraiths north to Hobbiton. I think Saruman's tale doesn't really lend itself to the kinds of adventures we've seen so far and I really doubt we'll go back to Dol Guldur so soon after the Mirkwood cycle.

Of the stories that are left, I think Rohan lends itself nicely to a three quest deluxe expansion, and more importantly, it easily provides the encounter sets to enable Boromir's journey north to be the next AP cycle. Why do I think Boromir's tale will be next? First of all, it's a truly epic journey. Boromir travelled west from Gondor, through Rohan and the Gap and then through the wildlands and north to the ruins of Tharbad where he lost his horse trying to cross the great river Greyflood. After losing his horse he had to go the rest of the way to Rivendell on foot. This would make an amazing story, something Tolkien said himself : "the courage and hardihood required is not fully recognized in the narrative". That's the kind of journey I'd like to see in an AP cycle. Tolkien's lack of detail about the journey is actually a blessing to the game designers as they can have some fun filling in the details of the story. The regions around Tharbad were also not in the movies giving the designers some freedom to conceptualize them however they want. The fact that a third of the trip is through Rohan would dovetail very nicely with the Deluxe Expansion.

So there's my prediction. What do you think?



#2 richsabre

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:05 AM

thats an intriguing idea, though i disagree…heres why

1. i think the whole timescale of between the hobbit and lotr fellowship no longer applies. the hiers of numenor and against the shadow seems to have no timescale…i cant remember anything in the cycle pointing to a particular attack, but osgilliath was attacked 20th june…perhaps it is set around then

EDIT ive just seen pack 5 and it mentions boromir in minas tirith….he left soon after the attack on osgilliath in june so maybe this is the timescale (im just guessing here…cant remember if we are ever told differently)

2. if the timescale does still apply however, boromir sets out from minas tirth 4th july, this is in the fellowship book timescale, so if ffg are strictly keeping to the timeline, we wouldnt be able to do it

3.we have never actually had a cycle centered around a main character…..the hunt for gollum cycle did hint to aragorns quest, but he never actually featured. also we alreday have 2 boromirs, im not sure theres room for another (not that there would have to be, it would just make sense)

4.the cycles to me are more open ended than boromirs journey to rivendell, and although the details are there to be filled in by ffg, i still see it as too closed.

 

i do think there is a chance youre correct on rohan deluxe

dain was #6 before a dwarf cycle. theoden is #6 and is stated by the writer of the article to be like dain (which of course he is in abiliy)

as for the packs i think perhaps some of sarumans spies in breeland….we could build on the dunedain and hobbits which we are getting in this cycle. its not really related to rohan, though i suppose the spies could be sent into rohan as well as bree, as must have been so. this wuold also place it between the hobbit and the fellowship of the ring.

 

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#3 klaymen_sk

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:50 AM

richsabre said:

i do think there is a chance youre correct on rohan deluxe

dain was #6 before a dwarf cycle. theoden is #6 and is stated by the writer of the article to be like dain (which of course he is in abiliy)

 

However Elrond was #6 as well, yet we got HoN instead of an Elvish cycle.


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#4 Style75

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:58 AM

I don't think they'd have any problem using Boromir as the central character. Look at the Mirkwood cycle: Aragon was all over that… in the quest descriptions and in the art. Secondly, I really don't think FFG cares to much about a precise timeline. As you said yourself, the timeline of the upcoming AP cycle doesn't really fit in with that of the books. I think FFG has already taken liberties with the source material to tell their own version of the story so I don't think they'd shy away from it in the future.

While I'd love to see an AP cycle centered around Breeland (most likely involving the quest of the Ring Wraiths and the defense by the Dunedain) I don't think we'd see it paired up with a Rohan based Deluxe Expansion. The problem would be the format where over half of the encounter cards from the D. Exp. would be used to fill out the encounter cards from the AP's. I think the geography of Breeland is just far too different from Rohan for this to make any sense.

Tolkien left a number of partially finished storylines in between the Hobbit and the start of the LotR books. So far, FFG has used their very rough outlines to tell the stories in this game. Consider the following: which of the major storylines outlined by Tolkien would work well with a Rohan Deluxe Expansion?

For the sake of pure speculation, If it's not Boromir's journey, what else would you like to see as the main story for the next AP cycle assuming the Del. Exp. is Rohan?  Saruman and Isengard? Maybe the rise of Wormtongue?



#5 richsabre

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:28 AM

Style75 said:

 

I don't think they'd have any problem using Boromir as the central character. Look at the Mirkwood cycle: Aragon was all over that… in the quest descriptions and in the art. Secondly, I really don't think FFG cares to much about a precise timeline. As you said yourself, the timeline of the upcoming AP cycle doesn't really fit in with that of the books. I think FFG has already taken liberties with the source material to tell their own version of the story so I don't think they'd shy away from it in the future.

While I'd love to see an AP cycle centered around Breeland (most likely involving the quest of the Ring Wraiths and the defense by the Dunedain) I don't think we'd see it paired up with a Rohan based Deluxe Expansion. The problem would be the format where over half of the encounter cards from the D. Exp. would be used to fill out the encounter cards from the AP's. I think the geography of Breeland is just far too different from Rohan for this to make any sense.

Tolkien left a number of partially finished storylines in between the Hobbit and the start of the LotR books. So far, FFG has used their very rough outlines to tell the stories in this game. Consider the following: which of the major storylines outlined by Tolkien would work well with a Rohan Deluxe Expansion?

For the sake of pure speculation, If it's not Boromir's journey, what else would you like to see as the main story for the next AP cycle assuming the Del. Exp. is Rohan?  Saruman and Isengard? Maybe the rise of Wormtongue?

 

 

well yes i agree that rohan is most certainly not breeland, i mean its not even the right side of the misty mountains. if rohan become a base pack, then i think the following cycle must surely be centered around saruman and the rise of his spies and half orcs. i think we would see fangorn for a start which would obviously mean ents.

the problem with a rohan cycle is the climax….unlike gondor we dont have any obvious attacks  until into the trilogy material. its not like we could have a siege on helms deep…and i think we would have had our fill of sieges in AGT anyways

so i think something based on the battle of the fords of the isen….i know the first battle of the fords was slightly before the breaking of the fellowship, but i suppose it wouldnt be pushing it too far for a detatchment of riders to battle some half orcs and evil men making their way up to breeland and tharbad (which could perhaps end with a battle with the dunedain holding the crossing at tharbad)

that could rather nicely place us for a shire/breeland cycle after that

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#6 Ellareth

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:48 AM

I agree that there is a possibility next Cycle may be Rohan with Boromir's Journey as Delux Expansion.

 

As for the timeline, FFG has not broken it yet with except of Saga expansion and Print on Demand expansions.

HoN and AtS Cycle is sketchy as it is almost purely made up scenario (hopefully well made one) as I can tell, but Boromir's presence would fit it within the time frame.

And since Frodo departs Hobbiton in September 23rd, Boromir's Journey up North would fit in the timescale.

Aside from treason of Isengard (which we cannot unveil yet, but I suppose our group of heroes can, since we've faced Balrog already), Rohan still has to deal with Mordor's horse thieves. As horses were as dear to Rohirrims as their family, and Eomund, King's Brother, got killed in Emyn Muil while trying to fight off these thieves, I can see that being Cycle's plot.

So maybe we will get Delux expansion featuring Boromir's Journey (heroes might be one of the Royal escorts provided from Edoras) that ends in Tharbad, encounter some suspicious Uruk activity that seems to have originated from from Isengard for first half of Cycle but is prevented from investigating any further by Grima Wormtongue, instead are now sent Eastern side of Rohan to chase off what appeared to be common thieves that turned out to be force from Mordor and have a climatic battle where Eomund dies.

 

As for Bree and Eriador, I would like to see them getting their own Cycle, not piggybacking on Rohan Cycle.
Nazgul's attack on Sarn Ford can be used as Delux Expansion or very climatic final battle,

There are Dunedain Rangers all over Eriador fighting Northern Orcs, remnent of evil men of Carn Dum and Rhudaur, Trolls in Ettenmoors, Wights in Burrow-Downs, and other 'evil stuff', Aragorn did says they were fighting and slaying evil servants of Sauron in the North. Even though Tolkien didin't describe what exactly happened there, I believe FFG can whip up some good scenarios. I see Eriador as a wildcard where FFG have lot of liberaty in terms of plot.



#7 richsabre

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:38 AM

i think it depends on what ffg call the start of the trilogy material (have they actually said? i cant remember)

because if it means the start of the fellowship book, then that means bilbos 111th birthday, meaning both boromir's depature and the assualt on minas tirith were after the allowed timescale

if it means frodo's departure ie. september, then these speculations are ok in the timescale

im thinking it is frodos departure, given that we have had hfg which happens after the start of the book events

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#8 GrandSpleen

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:48 AM

richsabre said:

 

3.we have never actually had a cycle centered around a main character…..the hunt for gollum cycle did hint to aragorns quest, but he never actually featured. also we alreday have 2 boromirs, im not sure theres room for another (not that there would have to be, it would just make sense)

 

I don't see this as inconsistent with what FFG has already done.  We HAVE seen a cycle centered around a main character (Aragorn in the hunt for Gollum, as you mentioned), but the designers took the source material and simply made it generic.  We know the hunt for Gollum was Aragorn's thing, but FFG set it up as "Gandalf has requested help finding the creature Gollum…. our intrepid adventurers answer the call!"  Aragorn isn't mentioned and doesn't feature as a new hero in the Mirkwood cycle.  We do have 2 Boromirs already, but setting up a generic "Elrond has summoned a council…. you must answer the call" would be just as easy to do, and following precedent, we wouldn't need to see a new Boromir to make this work.

But!  What I am interested in is the designer quote that came at the end of a semi-recent developer article.  In the article where they discuss the new tournament rules (here), Caleb/Matthew/Nate write:

"Speaking of unannounced projects, there are some really exciting things in store for The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, and we look forward to sharing them with all of you when the time is right. Until then, we hope you continue to enjoy all your travels in Middle-earth!"

I haven't seen any forum speculation about this -- maybe I missed it?  Anyway, the only things that we have gotten since then are the previews for the last 2 APs in Against the Shadow, and the Second Breakfast articles.  Those certainly don't satisfy the quote above, in my opinion.  I think something bigger is coming -- not just any old new deluxe.  Maybe FFG has acquired the rights to develop saga expansions based on the actual trilogy? That's where my hope lies!



#9 richsabre

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:59 AM

to the first part: i agree, it is easy enough to make something generic, but to me making boromir's journey generic just gets rid of the story of boromir's journey entirely……..we may as well not bother to call it 'boromir's journey' at all, and just call it a 'summon to council' . its an interesting idea all the same, but i just dont see it happening as specific as stated in the original post, and as i say here, if its made generic then i dont see the point in associating it with boromir beyond its inspiration. i think it was alot easier to make the hfg generic, because we can image gandalf summoning some of his closest allies to aid aragorn.

 

to the second part: interesting, i had not seen that passage. it could mean alot of things i suppose. it could mean accessories we have not seen…an art book. or new sleeves (they all seem a little underwhelming for that passage though)

i think the hobbit saga packs were a great success….i hope that it has brought many new players to the game (which i assume it has)…so i would be absolutely delighted with a trilogy saga (yeah…there is the thing of it climaxing in the defeat of evil, but the point of saga packs is that they work away from the main cycle right?)

mmm…..but have ffg had enough time to work on it? they seem to be pertty busy trying to get the current cycle out….or is the reason for this that they have been working on the epic trilogy? mmm….juicy news haha

perhaps they have the silmarillion? …..it woulld be a first if they had i think…a very rare thing to get the chance to do that. no i doubt its that. perhaps make a new thread? i think it needs it.

let us hope that a preiview monday is on our way!! (i shall be continually pressing refresh all tomorrow night just in case :) )

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#10 OnkelZorni

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:47 AM

GrandSpleen said:

"Speaking of unannounced projects, there are some really exciting things in store for The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, and we look forward to sharing them with all of you when the time is right. Until then, we hope you continue to enjoy all your travels in Middle-earth!"

Don't want to be negative, but don't they call each and every announcement exciting?

I think, I read this word in almost every LOTR article…

 

Sorry for being sceptical



#11 richsabre

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:25 PM

OnkelZorni said:

 

GrandSpleen said:

 

"Speaking of unannounced projects, there are some really exciting things in store for The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, and we look forward to sharing them with all of you when the time is right. Until then, we hope you continue to enjoy all your travels in Middle-earth!"

 

 

Don't want to be negative, but don't they call each and every announcement exciting?

I think, I read this word in almost every LOTR article…

 

Sorry for being sceptical

 

 

yeah i would tend to agree, apart from the 'unannounced' part…..it cant be against the shadow as that is announced, and there isnt really a tournament scene (though something about that was annoucned anyways the other month)…..so that just leaves accessories and packs. there wont be another cycle announced for a while now, i seem to remember new deluxe packs being anncouned when around the 3rd pack is out?

personally im going with an accessory

anyways, i look forward to seeing how this one plays out!

rich

ps. it isnt my birthday, despite what the forum says :)


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#12 Style75

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:15 PM

As much as I would dearly love to see a game base on the Silmarillion, I don't see it happening. Unlike the game rights to the LotR stories which are held by "Middle Earth Enterprises", the rights to the Silmarillion are held by Christopher Tolkien and he has guarded them fiercely, utterly refusing to allow anything other than maps, guide books or artwork to based upon it. He's ultra-rich so I don't think money could sway him, I think he geniunely wants to keep one part of father's legacy free from other people's meddling. (there's been plenty of chatter from him that shows he's not a fan of the movies, games, or merchandising of the trilogy).

I suspect the big announcement is going to be saga expansions based on the LotR novels. While this would be really fun, I hope they continue to produce their own stories for this game and explore the parts of Middle Earth that have been largely left out of the novels.



#13 lleimmoen

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

I think to make a cycle (or at least a couple quests) about Boromir's Journey is a great idea. Indeed, it is the kind of stuff ffg must be looking at. And Boromir being one of my all time favourite characters, I'm looking forward to that.

That said, I really think the next cycle should and will be up North right away to give us Elves and Dúnedain, along with more Hobbit cards. I think it is time for Eriador - not that much of Boromir's journey doesn't take place just there.



#14 lleimmoen

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:18 PM

Also, if the saga for the LotR comes out, I imagine it shall have at least six boxes, one for each book (even that is kinda few, just imagine having only three quests out of the first part of the Fellowship, I'm sure there's room for at least four; then again each box could have four quests, there's no limit to that). That would of course give us plenty of time to insert say fiver more cycles, and have a satasfying "end" with the destruction of Barad-dur. Yes, I kinda want this game run indefinitely, but getting 8 cycles and two sagas worth of 8 big box expansions could be about enough.



#15 richsabre

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:04 AM

lleimmoen said:

Also, if the saga for the LotR comes out, I imagine it shall have at least six boxes, one for each book (even that is kinda few, just imagine having only three quests out of the first part of the Fellowship, I'm sure there's room for at least four; then again each box could have four quests, there's no limit to that). That would of course give us plenty of time to insert say fiver more cycles, and have a satasfying "end" with the destruction of Barad-dur. Yes, I kinda want this game run indefinitely, but getting 8 cycles and two sagas worth of 8 big box expansions could be about enough.

how long do lcgs usually run? hasnt GOT been at it 5 years now and is still going? if it has a similar output to lotr (which i have no idea if it does or not) then that 10 cycles. so i would certainly hope for at least 8 major cycles and more  (though i of course want the game to run on indefinitely as well)

@style75 : if ffg do go for the saga lotr packs, i also want them to keep doing their own packs, and of course they will as this is what the game is based on, and the saga packs as additional material

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#16 GrandSpleen

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:13 AM

I don't know if the lcg model is really old enough to say what the average lifespan of an lcg is.  Are there any that are older than 5 years, and are there any that have been continued? I don't know the answers to these questions.



#17 lleimmoen

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:33 AM

I know this is as hypothetical as it gets but five more cycles plus the huge saga (LotR would surely get so much bigger than the Hobbit, since they wouldn't discard nearly half of the stuff as the movies did I'm sure) would take them at least five more years after this; so if they really decide to go saga and cycles in between, they're good for long. It could be even that the cycles could use encounters from the big boxes of the saga, I think it could be easy to base five cycles around the stuff happening "at the time" of the main story - but perhaps there's no time for that just yet.



#18 richsabre

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:01 AM

i looked on ffg site and i think im right in saying oldest is 5 years and theyre all still going. i may be wrong as i only play this one

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#19 richsabre

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:12 AM

lleimmoen said:

I know this is as hypothetical as it gets but five more cycles plus the huge saga (LotR would surely get so much bigger than the Hobbit, since they wouldn't discard nearly half of the stuff as the movies did I'm sure) would take them at least five more years after this; so if they really decide to go saga and cycles in between, they're good for long. It could be even that the cycles could use encounters from the big boxes of the saga, I think it could be easy to base five cycles around the stuff happening "at the time" of the main story - but perhaps there's no time for that just yet.

while we're on that topic, what would the 6 packs be

1.hobbiton - rivendell

2. rivendell- great river

this may get a little complicated with the breaking of the fellowship but i suppose

3.emyn muil - shelob's lair

4.fangorn-helms deep

5.shelobs lair - mnt doom

6.gondor-black gate

hows that look?

 

 


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#20 John85

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:12 AM

Rich, that's more or less what I would do, I suppose.






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