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I really want to enjoy playing Relic, but…


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#21 Wodan

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 04:22 PM

HappyDaze said:

zealot12 said:

 

I do think you're exaggerating, though I understand if you're disappointed that the game has not lived up to your expectations. Certainly not all FFG games are like Relic and Talisman. Actually, these are the only two, as far as I know.

 

 

I'm not sure what point you believe that I'm exaggerating. We've had nine games with 3, 4, and even once with 5 players. Six games have been terrible for all involved after the first hour of play. Even the other three usually had one player that was totally out of the game in any meaningful manner* for more than an hour of play. None of this is an exaggeration.

* Turn after turn of desperately trying to land on a space to bleed off Corruption or to get a new mission count. So too does running around the outside with no power cards, assets, or influence when everyone else out levels you by 4+ levels, is on the middle or inner tier, and has a Relic. These might not be so bad if they only happened occasionally, but we've seen it over and over.

 

We get it.  You don't like it.  You don't sit here and rage anymore.  Seriously.  

Your ranting has reached its fever pitch now.  Just go already.

For the rest of us, we like it.  So please don't buy another FFG boardgame again.  Seriously.  Please don't.


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#22 HappyDaze

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:42 PM

Wodan said:

HappyDaze said:

 

zealot12 said:

 

I do think you're exaggerating, though I understand if you're disappointed that the game has not lived up to your expectations. Certainly not all FFG games are like Relic and Talisman. Actually, these are the only two, as far as I know.

 

 

I'm not sure what point you believe that I'm exaggerating. We've had nine games with 3, 4, and even once with 5 players. Six games have been terrible for all involved after the first hour of play. Even the other three usually had one player that was totally out of the game in any meaningful manner* for more than an hour of play. None of this is an exaggeration.

* Turn after turn of desperately trying to land on a space to bleed off Corruption or to get a new mission count. So too does running around the outside with no power cards, assets, or influence when everyone else out levels you by 4+ levels, is on the middle or inner tier, and has a Relic. These might not be so bad if they only happened occasionally, but we've seen it over and over.

 

 

 

We get it.  You don't like it.  You don't sit here and rage anymore.  Seriously.  

Your ranting has reached its fever pitch now.  Just go already.

For the rest of us, we like it.  So please don't buy another FFG boardgame again.  Seriously.  Please don't.

I can put my unpleasant experiences with the product up here to share as I see fit. You don't get to decide when I go. Hopefully you get that.


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#23 zealot12

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

Doubling posting. This forum is laggy.   



#24 zealot12

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

Just to address something you've posted prior about difficulties in getting a new mission count, especially if you're powerless.

Let's say you've gotten a mission that tells you to obtain two of your character tokens by moving to two particular spaces on the board.

Sounds hard, if you're devoid of movement abilities or power cards?

Not really. Just put the tokens on the strip between the Grey Knight Envoy and the Emmissary. This way you're incrasing your chances to gain either

a) a useful Power card

b) a replacement mission

There are so many instances in this game where you can increase your chances at succeeding at something.Or at manipulating your rival.

In one of our last sessions, my opponent used the Litany of Hate card to move Typhus(a nasty Corruption monster with a Cunning Attribute of 9) to one of the corner spaces( Sanctuary) to impede my Ultramarine Captain's  progress. I had only two influence tokens, and a poor cunning trait of 2, and 4 Corruption cards.

This way, he blocked a healing space, and my only possible exit at that point  from the Outer Tier.

Via the help of one of the Threat cards(a 7 Strength demon) I was able to get rid of Typhus, but it took me valuable time, and my Captain was totally wining level-wise, but I lost eventually.

 

The biggest fun in this game for us  has been using whichever resources we've got available to obtain our goals, and between the  5 scenarios, the 10 characters available, the multitude of  missions, Power cards  and situational threat cards, there are so many ways of doing that.

   



#25 Prepare for War

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:58 PM

HappyDaze said:

 

Today I gave this game away to a friend. I asked that he never bring it to my home again. I can't express how disappointed I am in this product. Played a total of nine games and only three of them were even remotely enjoyable for the group (not just me, but for everyone playing). I will not buy a FFG board game again.

 

 

 

Thats a shame, as their games tend to be quite variable in style.

To me, Relic is a fun race game with a stronger random element than I'd like, and less strategy than I'd like. I consider it a good game to play against friends who aren't that into deep strategy. Thats not to say that Relic is strategically shallow, but rather that the game is playable and fun without strategy needed.

One FF game you might enjoy better (in my opinion) is Chaos in the Old World, which is much more robust in its PvP approach, and far more strategic. It still has a luck element, but to me its just about right in this game.

If you greatly dislike luck and want solid PvP, there's other good options too, though I think Fantasy Flight games in general tend to have sizeable luck elements. German-style eurogames may be more your thing, in this circumstance.



#26 fasteddy23

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

Play Talisman!!!



#27 Ironhanded

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:25 AM

I think I know what causes this dilemma.

 

All of the inner tier spots have the same 2 problems that make it impossible to catch the first player in there (assuming they aren't just killed or corrupted outright).

 

1.   Even if you fail a test, YOU STILL GET TO MOVE FORWARD 1 SPACE per turn.  This only HELPS the lead player.

2.   Even if you pass a test, you ONLY get to move forward 1 space per turn.   This only HURTS the pursuing player.  There's no way to "catch up."

 

These problems exist even if you have a cool mission at the end (many of which try to balance the game by punishing the leader, actually)- because you still have to grind through the inner tier to get there.

 

 

Try these house rules and see if they help.

 

  •  For the skill test spaces (Palace of Slaanesh, Garden of Nurgle, Fortress of Khorne, Maze of Tzeench), you MUST pass the test before you can move forward.   If you pass, you may IMMEDIATELY test the next square, and so on, until you fail or reach the end (see  mission).  [Note: for faster games, drop the attribute checks down to 12, or even 10].
  • If you fail, your turn ends, and you must still pay the penalty as indicated.  But you may also choose to drop out of the inner tier (move to the Guardians of the Rift space and end your turn).

Now it is possible for the leader to get stuck (esp, if they are under-prepared), and for the pursuing players to catch up (if they are better prepared, which they should be after loitering in the easier tiers earning stuff).  Allowing players to drop back out to the middle tier when they fail a test gives them a chance to build up whatever stat they failed at- and more importantly, a chance for other players to get ahead of them!

 

The next suggestion is a bit trickier, but a lot more fun (and gives players some way to affect each other during the endgame):

 

  • For the Warp Rift, Crone World, Chaos Titan, and Demon World spaces-  Whenever the active player discards a Renegade, Daemon, or Heretic threat ard, they may place the card on any of the spaces listed above, as long as there isn't already another player in that space, and the attribute total for all the cards on that space do not already exceed a total of 10.
  • Whenever a player lands on a space with these threat cards, they must fight as normal (instead of performing the text box on the space).  They may evade enemies, but...
  • They may not LEAVE a space that still has any enemy cards on it!
  • If they lose the fight, they must take any penalties as normal and may try again on their next turn.  Alternatively, they may choose to drop out of the inner tier (move to the Guardians of the Rift space and end your turn).

     

Example:  Bob discards a Fabius Bile he beat with help from Mary, so both of them can go up a level.  Instead of placing the card in the discard pile, Bob puts the card on the Warp Rift space (no player is already on it, and it doesn't already have more than 10 points of enemies on it).  Ha, now when someone tries to blaze through the inner circle, they won't be able to skip spaces based on their level, etc.  because the text box for the Warp Rift doesn't apply- Fabius Bile must be defeated instead!   No additional enemy cards can be placed there until Bile is defeated though, as his total value is more than 10.

 

In addition to throwing road blocks in front of the lead player, this rule also allows players a last chance to earn some skill points, levels, trophies, etc. through combat.  This is very satisfying if you spent most of the game building up your fighting skills, where without this rule you do virtually no fighting in the inner circle.

 

So there you have it- hope you like this variant!  We'll be playing all our RELIC games with these house rules from now on, ensuring that even the end game is entertaining and competitive.


Edited by Ironhanded, 26 July 2013 - 10:56 AM.


#28 Prepare for War

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:04 AM

Try these house rules and see if they help.

 

  •  For the skill test spaces (Palace of Slaanesh, Garden of Nurgle, Fortress of Khorne, Maze of Tzeench), you MUST pass the test before you can move forward.   If you pass, you may IMMEDIATELY test the next square, and so on, until you fail or reach the end (see  mission).  [Note: for faster games, drop the attribute checks down to 12, or even 10].

  • If you fail, your turn ends, and you must still pay the penalty as indicated.  But you may also choose to drop out of the inner tier (move to the Guardians of the Rift space and end your turn).

 

I dislike this house rule, as it makes it nearly impossible for more specialised characters to ever reach the central space. Forcing the Ogryn to pass Willpower and Cunning tests to proceed, for example, is unrealistic. Even fully levelled he's unlikely to manage it!

 

Also, this takes a lot of the risk assessment out of the game, as part of the skill of the game is knowing when to make the run. With this variant in place, you're forced to spend much longer grinding to get your level up, knowing that it'll be nearly impossible to make it in alive otherwise.

 

I personally don't think the inner tier needs errata at all, but if I were going to suggest one, it'd be this:

 

* On a failed test on the Inner Tier, miss your next turn.

* On the Maze of Tzeentch, still only miss one turn, but also draw a corruption card.

 

To me, the main things that need fixing here are the endgame scenarios: especially Corruptis. Its nearly impossible to reach him with fewer than 4 corruption cards in place, save getting Bones of the Fallen Saint, which also translates into an "I win" button. The Chaos Manufactorum is too random and has a nasty newbie trap in reaching it with too little influence/trophies, and doesn't reward players who reach it first well enough, because the charge counters aren't character specific. Kairos is ok as he stands, even with the random element, though I'm not keen on all the battles being fought consecutively without any turn end (save losing). The Mystery Beyond is ok, though if one player gets to the inner tier with enough life to spare, you can usually say he's won straight away rather than playing it out. Thats not a huge problem to me though, as it makes it a good choice for a game where you want to fit in a whole game of Relic in 45 minutes. The Lost Battlefleet is my favourite scenario: more or less perfect in design.

 

Corruptis is the big problem for me: his games stretch out to 2 hours plus, as we all read the odds and refuse to go anywhere near the inner tier till we have at least a 50% chance of winning the fight.



#29 Commonwomble

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:14 PM

Games of Relic do tend to see a few players take the lead early and retain it until the end of the game: Part of the problem is that once you can survive the middle tier, you gain exp and kit much faster than anyone stuck on the outer rim. This is particularly notable with the more specialised, less balanced characters, as it is easier to pick on certain enemies which you can combat with your best stats.

 

HOWEVER!

 

Whilst this can make the game less enjoyable that it ought be, a bit of sportsmanship among players can go a long way to mitigating this.

 

And I suspect that once Nemesis introduces better PvP elements, it will go a long way towards helping negate an early lead advantage.






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