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Rogue Trader Generator Tools released!


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#101 Nenjin

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 12:24 AM

Heya TiLT.

 

Registered just to talk about this tool. Great stuff, what that all Fantasy Flight RPGs had tools like this.

 

Anyways, ran into a pretty crippling problem.

 

I was deleting a Gas Giant from a system and re-adding when the Generator crashed. Not thinking much of it, I restarted, generated and deleted a few more and then it crashed again. Then it started crashing when adding other non-planets. Planets still seem to get added and deleted fine, but other things, not so much. Now I can't add anything other than a planet without the generator crashing.

 

I took at look at the file in text and, while I don't know a lot about what I'm looking at, I believe there's a bunch of left over dangling crap that's causing the generator to crash. I cleaned out that entire region of space and saved it, checked the file and I still see remnants of values for resources and civilizations ect... in there.

 

I can provide the file on request if you need, because I'd really like to see this fixed. WIn 7, btw.

 

And if you're into taking requests, I'd find the ability to plug the generator with some starting values very helpful. (Thinking of it because the exact system I want is hard to generate, and the one I have is pretty much corrupted.) Being able to tell the generator to create a system with X features and Y star would help me out a great deal. As would being able to add or delete some top level features like Pirate Dens.

 

edit: I think I've managed to basically rebuild the system by hacking the file apart line by line and changing/removing some things. Hopefully I didn't introduce any crippling flaws.

 

Man, even new systems are causing the game to generator to crash when trying to do some things. It's like once I've saved a workspace once or twice it becomes incapable of adding some new features. As soon as I open the right click menu and click the feature, it hangs then crashes. Might be something to do with the right click dialog menu? I see the cursor spinning on that element while the windows crash reporting thing is open.

 

Hate to say it, but I can't really use it in this state, except to quickly generate something and get it into text so I can change most of it. Not really a dig, but I've probably spent the last 3 hours generating systems, screwing with it trying different fixes and pulling apart the saved file. I gave it the 'ol Tech Support try but I'm out of things to look at.

 

Are there any dependencies that might be causing this issue? I don't see people reporting these kinds of issues, so perhaps its specific to my system.


Edited by Nenjin, 16 February 2014 - 02:08 AM.


#102 TiLT

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:20 AM

I don't know what to say, because I've never had the generator crash even once, despite having used tested it very thoroughly and having used it during my own game sessions. I tried going all-out just now, trying to replicate the behavior you mention, but could find nothing wrong. 

 

I suspect you're reading too much into the file, by the way. There's supposed to be "leftovers" in there due to the way I handle saving and loading. I use .Net's data contracts, which are stable, predictable and easy to use, but they also save a bit more than is strictly necessary. I think that's what you're seeing. Deleting this stuff can lead to issues. There shouldn't be any issues with the save/load functionality due to the standardized way in which it's treated. I'm aware that this kind of functionality tends to be tricky and prone to bugs, which is why I went for the solution I did. 

 

I wouldn't mind having a look at a corrupted file for you though, but make sure it's one you haven't edited yourself. If there's anything truly wrong with it, I should be able to see that for myself. You can use the email address in the About dialog if you wish. 

 

Just to be clear: You're seeing this behavior with fresh, new workspaces after a clean restart of the generator? Can you tell me a series of steps that reliably lead to this bug?

 

Edit: And no, there are no dependencies in the generator. The only thing it uses is .Net, which you should always make sure is completely up-to-date on your computer. Since you're running Windows 7, I assume it already is.


Edited by TiLT, 16 February 2014 - 04:21 AM.


#103 TiLT

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:25 AM

Hmm, the generator does save its settings to an application-specific path connected to your user. I'm wondering if maybe this one has gotten corrupted somehow. Can you try downloading the application again and saving it to a new folder, then running it? It should (hopefully) show you the pop-up that asks you to do the first time configuration all over again. 

 

Can you check if the crashing continues when you do this? That would help me eliminate at least one potential source of the problem. 


Edited by TiLT, 16 February 2014 - 04:25 AM.


#104 Nenjin

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:19 AM

Yep, just tried it again.

 

Downloaded the .exe from the link.

 

Placed into a new directory.

 

Turned on all modules at first setup.

 

Generated a system.

 

Added a bunch of gas giants, other things, no problem.

Saved .rtg file to a different directory.

 

Re-opened file.

 

Tried to add Gas Giant.

 

Kerplooie.

 

I'm actually tech support, so I get the "hrmmm..." factor in not being able to replicate a crash from a developer.

 

My registry says my .net version is 4.0.30319.

 

Lemme know if there's anything else I can look at.



#105 TiLT

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:26 PM

Thanks! That did it. Managed to replicate the bug on my side by following those steps. I'll have a closer look at it tomorrow, as it's well past bedtime now. :)



#106 TiLT

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:21 AM

I just updated the application to version 1.06. The link is in the first post of the thread. This should fix the bug you've been seeing, though any files you've previously saved will still have the problem. New files should be fine, however. 

 

A bit of technical info: I use a specific data object to save information about the star system I'm generating. This object is then passed down to every node (ie. clickable item in the workspace) to use when generating system features. These features can then ask the data object about important information regarding the system as a whole, such as whether or not there are Starfarers in the system, or whether there should be more or less of a certain mineral, etc. Most node types will reference this object when they are generated. 

 

What had happened was that I hadn't marked that specific data object for saving, which was how I had intended it. But I forgot to include the functionality that would regenerate this data object when it was needed, with the result that reloading a saved file and attempting to generate a new sub-node from another sub-node resulted in attempting to read from this empty object, causing a crash. 

 

The fix consisted of adding just one word to the code. 



#107 Nenjin

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:22 AM

Thanks TiLT, you're a credit to your profession.

 

I'll get it downloaded and let you know if I find any other problems.



#108 Killbeggar

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:57 PM

Just generated a system that exported out to 15 pages, making a system that size manually would make my head explode. :D Totally awesome time saver tool.


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We do not wear His symbol, we ARE His symbol."
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#109 Nenjin

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:41 AM

Hey TiLT, would it be a lot of work to make it possible to edit the text on the right side panel? I'd find it pretty useful to be able to change stuff like "Sustainable Kroot Ruins" to something else if necessary, just to be able to tweak planetary details a ilttle more. The tool is nice enough I'd actually like to be able to keep a system updated through it, instead of exporting to RTF at some point when it's "done."

 

I appreciate it probably is a decent amount of work, since if you change data that something else gets derived from, it can basically corrupt the tree.


Edited by Nenjin, 22 February 2014 - 02:30 AM.


#110 TiLT

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:57 PM

I'm sorry, but what you're asking is "impossible" within the design I made for this application. The reason is that the entire text output is built around being completely dynamic. The text you read is stored only long enough for you to read it (or export it), and it's then simply deleted, only to be recreated whenever you click that node in the tree again. It's not even saved to disk when you save your workspace. It's generated all over again when you reload a file and click a node. I can't even imagine how to begin implementing something like what you're describing, even if I had chosen a different design to begin with. 

 

One possible "solution" would be to let you mark a node as locked, at which point nothing would be generated for it again, letting you edit it to your heart's content, but that would kind of defeat the purpose of not exporting in the first place. 

 

Basically, if you want to edit the text beyond what you've got available to you in the description field (seriously, use this! That's what it's there for. Write anything you like in there) or the name of the node, just export your workspace to RTF and edit it there. That's how the application was designed, and that's how it needs to be. Adding something like the locking mentioned above would cause more trouble than gain, simply because it would get counter-intuitive and confusing to most users. 

 

Personally, in my own games, I use the description field to keep nodes updated with stuff that comes up in the game. 


Edited by TiLT, 22 February 2014 - 03:59 PM.


#111 Nenjin

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:35 PM

Fair enough. I suppose that's what those links in the .rtg file are all about. I get that the description field is for packing info in. I'm just a little OCD when it comes to organization and I thought it'd be nice to continue editting through the tool. Not a big deal though, If I need to continue adding to an existing system that I've already exported and customized, I can just reload the system, generate, re-export to a new document and copy/paste out what I need. Thanks for the response.



#112 Quoth

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:51 PM

There's two things I'd love to add to this;
The ability to replace the rule reference with a rule manually. That way with the books in hand each individual would add in the rule plus any house rule they have and thus have it update for every use. Manual input a)saves you the leg work of inputting 50 books worth of rules in and b) keeps you clear of any copyright

Second, nexus 7 comparability! =D
Would be nice but I can only shudder at the ammmount of work needed.


Oh, just thought as I typed this, the ability to re-random gen individual parts of an item is one gun and a compartment but not the whole ship

#113 TiLT

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:08 AM

Writing in rules manually is an interesting idea with some merit, and it's possible to implement in a user-friendly way too. The question is, do I want to spend the time doing it? I'm going to have to give it some thought. There's also a question of how far I'd want to take it. Right now the application loses memory of its settings relatively often (just moving the main file seems to do the trick), but that would be a huge problem if you've spent hours manually typing in rules. And what about putting these manual rules in a separate save file? That would be the ideal solution seen from the perspective of the user, but would quickly (and quite likely) lead to the distribution of a complete (for this generator, anyway) set of rules, compromising my vision for the generator and bringing us one step closer to the dreaded Cease and Desist. Not that I know how realistic that is, but I'd rather not push the limits. I'll think about it. 

 

Nexus 7? Heh, dream on. This was made in C#, which is pretty much for Windows only. Bringing it to the Nexus is way, way too much work, and I don't even have a tablet of my own. It's just not my kind of thing. 

 

As for regenerating individual components on a ship, I made the decision to limit the amount of nodes for those kinds of things as the math and game logic behind it can be quite complex. It's doable, sure, but I made a deliberate decision during the design phase to limit this ability. It's unlikely to change, for a variety of reasons. Just add a description to the ship, noting what changes you've made to the generated text. 


Edited by TiLT, 25 February 2014 - 12:08 AM.


#114 Quoth

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:52 AM

Hummm yea I figured the distribution would be an issue... I can think of a few ideas that would solve it, but nothing that wouldnt require serious investment. Maybe a character limit so that its more of a note than a full rule. About the same size as the referance's that show up at the moment.

Damn =P heh well I cant say I was really expecting anything else. My Nexus will have to go without.

Yea I can appreciate the amount of work required. Notes it is =D



#115 Koboldnation

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:41 PM

Thank you!

after having spent alot of time manualy creating systems i can say with 100% certainty that having a tool like this is just plain awesome. thank you so much for creating and sharing it :)



#116 TiLT

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:09 AM

Glad to hear that you like it. :)






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