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I Don't Get the Point of Blasphemous Incantation


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#21 Fgdsfg

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:50 PM

I'm not sure how you're reading it to get it to reduce the chances of a Psychic Phenomena/Peril of the Warp. It doesn't say anything about waiving the regular rules (that I remember; I don't have the books right in front of me right now) - it just adds a forced Peril at 91-100 (and Failure), no matter what, even if used at Fettered.


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#22 Cifer

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:52 PM

@bogi khaosa

I'm still not entirely convinced.

As noted, the talent has two uses: more PR with Fettered and pseudo-Pushing.

 

The Fettered use is nice, but it still has a 1 in 10 chance of costing you an Infamy Point or creating a Peril. The point of fettering powers to me is that you can throw them around willy-nilly. I use them when the worst that can happen from a failed power use is me shrugging and trying again next round (my Q'Sal Magister always "speaks" by Fettered Thought Sending). When time is a problem, I'm more likely to go for Unfettered to get it right on the first try - and chances are the extra half action isn't all that unproblematic then either.

If you're feeling charitable, you can call the result more powerful than Fettered and a little less risky than Unfettered when you've got an IP to spend - if you're not feeling charitable, you call it less powerful than Unfettered and less safe than Fettered. After all, that Infamy Point spent for re-rolling is still an Infamy Point that might have saved your bacon on another roll later if you manifested the power Fettered, failed and tried again next round.

 

The pseudo-push is of dubious value. After all, as a Bound Psyker, you don't push from 5 to 6 for +10 phenomena, but you push from 5 to anywhere between 6 and 8 for a flat +10 - it's the Unbound ones that get their +5 for each PR they push. So what really happens is that for a +1 in PR, your perils risk jumps from 0.1*0.26 = 2.6% to the 14% you mentioned, for a single PR beyond what Unfettered grants you while for thrice the chance and no talent expenditure, you also get three levels of additional power.

 

If the talent had either the 91+=perils (or rather phenomena) or the +20 phenomena drawback, it would be halfway fine, but together, it's a bit too much drawback for too little power.

 

@Fgdsfg

bogi was comparing an unfettered blasphemous power with a +1-pushed non-blasphemous one.


Edited by Cifer, 27 October 2013 - 04:55 PM.


#23 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:57 PM

I'm not sure how you're reading it to get it to reduce the chances of a Psychic Phenomena/Peril of the Warp. It doesn't say anything about waiving the regular rules (that I remember; I don't have the books right in front of me right now) - it just adds a forced Peril at 91-100 (and Failure), no matter what, even if used at Fettered.

 

It doesn't waive the normal rules; it changes the threshold for when something counts as Fettered/Unfettered/Pushed.

 

What I mean is:

 

Say you have Psy Rating 5.

 

You can Push to Psy Rating 6.

 

OR (if you have Blasphemous Incantation) you can do Psy Rating 6 at the Unfettered Level, without Pushing. Which has a lower chance of phenom and perils than Pushing does. Significantly less, if my math was right.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 27 October 2013 - 05:59 PM.


#24 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:09 PM

I wonder if the +20 to phenomena adds to the normal bonus from being bound/unbound, or replaces it?

 

That would make a big difference.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 27 October 2013 - 06:10 PM.


#25 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:52 PM

You know what, never mind.

 

Even though my math seems to be right and a +1 Psy Rating achieved via applying Blasphemous Incantation to Unfettered level is considerably safer than adding +1 Psy Rating via Push, since they cost the samt, you could just buy +1 Psy Rating and do it Unfettered. :)

 

Unless you're already up to 10.

 

There must be something go on in this Talent that I'm just not seeing.



#26 BrotharTearer

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:34 AM

You need to learn to edit your posts instead of double and even tripple posting. It's quite annoying and spammy.

As for the topic, you found your issue. You can just buy +1 PR and not risk automatic perils. You can also just get a Warp Staff to use Unfettered without risk of phenomena instead of using BI on Fettered with risk of perils and get a net profit of PR. There's really no good reason to use BI besides "flavour reasons".

And the +20 from BI is on top of the +10/X of Bound/Unbound. If it replaces, it would say.

Edited by BrotharTearer, 11 November 2013 - 10:35 AM.


#27 Bore

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:54 AM

I recall reading somewhere within the books that certain rituals require Blasphemous Incantation, though I can't confirm that. Still, that would be an additional reason to take it.



#28 BrotharTearer

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:44 PM

I recall reading somewhere within the books that certain rituals require Blasphemous Incantation, though I can't confirm that. Still, that would be an additional reason to take it.

 

Nope. Incorrect.



#29 Annaamarth

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:56 AM

The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced that it's really only useful for a tzeentch-aligned Sorcerer, and only in the unfettered pseudo-push that Bogi crunched the numbers for already.

 

If you're tzeentch aligned it's cheaper than a new level of PR, so there's that.  I guess it can also be used for high-tier, already-at-PR-10 mega-pushing.  Seems silly though.


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#30 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:03 PM

I still have the nagging feeling that we are overlooking something here. But what I have no idea. Maybe it was meant to be a Tier 2 Talent?

 

(I have the same feeling when I look at Bulging Biceps and Autostabilized, which seem to do almost the same thing, but the different wording must mean something. But I can't figure out what.)


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 11 December 2013 - 09:21 PM.


#31 Annaamarth

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:06 PM

Different things.  Autostabilized is a trait.  Bulging biceps is a talent.  Same end result though.

 

The mutation that grants autostabilized is pretty useless to a Space Marine tho...


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#32 BrotharTearer

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:11 AM

You never want a 10% chance of inducing automatic Perils for an extra +1 PR. Simple as that. No Tzeentch-aligned psyker worth their salt would waste XP on the talent in my opinion. I'd not get it if it was a tier 2 talent, and likely not even if it was a tier 1 talent (maybe due to alignment reasons, not for actual usage unless I felt particularly suicidal).



#33 Cifer

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 06:15 PM

I still have the nagging feeling that we are overlooking something here. But what I have no idea. Maybe it was meant to be a Tier 2 Talent?

 

(I have the same feeling when I look at Bulging Biceps and Autostabilized, which seem to do almost the same thing, but the different wording must mean something. But I can't figure out what.)

Bulging Biceps and Autostabilized are essentially legacy problems - in Dark Heresy, Autostabilized granted to option to use Full Auto as a Half Action (and fire heavy weapons unbraced). When the combat system was modified for Black Crusade, Autostabilized essentially became synonymous with Bulging Biceps, but didn't get replaced by it.

 

As for Incantation... no, I think it's just plain crap.



#34 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:53 AM

It's a weird talent.

 

Maybe they just didn't think it through. It should be errated somehow and made to do something, esp. because Words of Power are a big sorcerous thing,






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