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Ambush from the Plains/ Duplicate question


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#21 mdc273

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

Odds on whether or not this actually makes it into the next FAQ? LoL.

 

This still is going to present problems. Cards are supposed to be self-referential. This says that cards coming into play and becoming dupes are an exception. It won't be a big problem, but I'm concerned this could have some bizarre implications in extreme circumstances. We'll see how it plays out.



#22 doulos2k

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:37 AM

No odds from me... but, I do agree that removing the explicit self-referential element where the effect refers to a specific piece of cardboard rather than (now) a virtual entity could have ramifications. I can't think of any at the moment, but that's not to say it won't create an odd interaction on some future edge case.


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#23 agktmte

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:26 PM

How about if your opponent has the same character in play? Are all characters with that name removed?



#24 doulos2k

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:18 PM

I would think the argument would be that the entire effect is referring to the character you control - it still is "the character" or "that character." Considering the rules for uniques already take into account who controls them (since both players can play uniques of the same name) - the same would apply here.


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#25 Slothgodfather

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:50 PM

Where does it say "that character you control" ?    ^_^

 

Just additional ramblings, what if the character (and the dupe - which is the real "that character" card) is put into the discard pile before the end of the phase.   If the lasting effect is targeting the entity of the target of the effect, does the lasting effect still apply?

 

 

I know, I'm stretching it...  :ph34r:    Really I'm just bored waiting for the FAQ and am also frustrated by how this e-mail has now undone what was "common knowledge" within the community and that this is how rulings are handled in the first place.    



#26 Ratatoskr

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:40 AM

and am also frustrated by how this e-mail has now undone what was "common knowledge" within the community and that this is how rulings are handled in the first place.    

I'm frustrated by this as well. There was really no need to obfuscate a pretty clear situation by introducing a never-before-heard-from interpretation out of the blue.

 

Maybe we should write to Damon and Nate and ask them to reconsider? I guess I will.



#27 Khudzlin

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 05:43 AM

If this extends to Catelyn Stark (LoW) and Khal Drogo (CS), a non self-referential effect would affect all characters with the name, regardless of controller.


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#28 doulos2k

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:21 AM

If this extends to Catelyn Stark (LoW) and Khal Drogo (CS), a non self-referential effect would affect all characters with the name, regardless of controller.

 

This ruling keeps getting worse.


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#29 agktmte

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:08 AM

Catelyn and Drogo would be self-referential only unless they come in and attach as a dupe, in which case it should return opponents's Catelyns and Drogos with this new ruling (as well as the now duped Catelyn and Drogo).  Correct?


Edited by agktmte, 11 October 2013 - 11:09 AM.


#30 Slothgodfather

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:21 AM

 

If this extends to Catelyn Stark (LoW) and Khal Drogo (CS), a non self-referential effect would affect all characters with the name, regardless of controller.

 

This ruling keeps getting worse.

 

 

Pray i don't alter the ruling any further.   


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#31 doulos2k

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:27 AM

 

 

Pray i don't alter the ruling any further.   

 

 

Nicely done, Ser. Nicely done.


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#32 Ratatoskr

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:49 AM

 

 

If this extends to Catelyn Stark (LoW) and Khal Drogo (CS), a non self-referential effect would affect all characters with the name, regardless of controller.

 

This ruling keeps getting worse.

 

 

Pray i don't alter the ruling any further.   

 

You, Ser, win the Internet. Congratulations.


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#33 Ratatoskr

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:16 AM

I wrote to Nate and Damon regarding this, and Nate wrote back. This will be addressed in the upcoming FAQ update.



#34 sWhiteboy

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:29 AM

FAQ?!!??!


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#35 Mitya

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:03 PM

New FAQ is out. They made the decision.

If a character enters play through an effect
like Fiery Kiss (TOC F47) that would cause
that character to leave play at the end of the
phase or round, but the character enters play
as a duplicate (because the player already
owns and controls another copy of that
character), what happens at the end of the
phase?


The check, "if that character is still in play"
cannot be made, as the card entered play as a
duplicate. The duplicate remains in play at the
end of the phase.

 



#36 doulos2k

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:06 PM

And there was much rejoicing!


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#37 Mitya

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:07 PM

Now I'm a little afraid to ask FFG questions.)) Will I receive the right answer?))

BTW, how often does this happen? Wrong answers, I mean.



#38 doulos2k

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:12 PM

Technically, Damon's answer wasn't wrong. It was a ruling he gave. As an FFG employee responsible for rulings, his answer would stand.

 

That said, it's apparent that after the uproar it caused (including Ratatoskr emailing Nate and Damon), they decided to rule in favor of the community understanding and they codified it by putting it into the latest FAQ so there would be no further doubt what the official word is.

 

But... if you're asking, how often does what we're told via the Rules link get changed when a new FAQ is released? Not terribly often, but it does happen. The rules link is still the official source outside of the FAQ.


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#39 Bolzano

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:47 AM

It happens often when you ask to Damon. Less often if asked to Nate.


Edited by Bolzano, 25 October 2013 - 11:48 AM.





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