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My Regionals Report


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#41 Englishpete

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:41 PM

I have to admit, I only fly Soontir with my Vader and Phennir Squad, if I'm flying Firesprays I am much more a fan of 2 Firesprays and a support ship. I did like Hothie's suggestions on my earlier squad as I too am beginning to queston the value of gunner in a lot of instances.

I also tend to agree that the cost of getting an Ion and stress from Kath is to high, also, one Ion Cannon never seems to bring me value. I always run two with my rebels and I see no reason why I would not forgo the HLC in favor of 2 ion cannons on Firesprays if I wanted Ions in an Imp squad. If your doing minimal damage you need max effect and one Ion cannon doesn't seem to bring it.

Overall, I'm still thinking 2 HLC's are awesome, but can't find a way to scrape a squad up that allows it and is effective.

Maybe Fett and Kath with VI and HLC might work, but I think that only leaves points for a basic Tie.

The problem with using a Firespray with just primary weapons is the big ships do not do well at range 1 generally due to manuvering issues and you want those 4 dice really.

 

Conundrums, Conundrums


To every man upon this Earth Death cometh soon or late. And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods?
(Horatius: Captain of the Gate)


#42 hothie

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:58 PM

In my own personal opinion, I think 2 HLC's are overkill. If you think about how you're going to fly them, it will be tough to get both of them at Range 2-3 often enough to use them. Normally when I practice flying around the board, 1 will usually be at Range 1 of where I think my opponent will be, and the other will be behind it at range 2-3. So having 1 HLC is good, but I'm just not sold on having 2. Because most of the time, your opponent will be at Range 1 of the front one, so you're firing 4 dice anyway, and then when you factor in using the rear arc, it just doesn't seem worth it to me to have HLC's on both. Maybe you can get it to work better than I can, and maybe you fly them differently than I do, so you can totally disregard anything I say. If you can get 2 HLC's to work, more power to you. I just don't think it's worth it for me. And like I mentioned earlier, I'm putting the HLC on the higher skilled pilot, so that when the lower pilot moves first, the higher one will be behind it with the HLC. I'm starting to think that's the way to play it.

And when I last played at the LGS, i ran 2 stock Bounty Hunters with no HLC's, and they did pretty well. Still lost to1 of the HSF variants I played that day, but like I said earlier, that was more due to me making flying mistakes than not having enough firepower.



#43 spacemonkeymafia

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:02 PM

I've been having fun with 2 BH + 2 HLC and a Black Sqadron with Draw their fire.  The BSP hangs back to body guard the two BHs to keep them alive as long as possible and maybe picks up a pot shot or two.  I like the double HLC on 2 BHs.  The squad has about 5 points of flex room to either grab bombs or a missile or a gunner (though I haven't been as impressed with a gunner on this build).

In my mind, I want to get at least 2 shots with an HLC to make it worth the points.  In my games I've found that this happens often enough to warrant having 2.  With BHs being the same skill, its easier to maneuver and have at least one get an action.  I like the one in front, one in back and feel like its a good formation but having two HLCs gives me the flexibility to have either be the rear gunner and use the HLC.  I see this happen during K-turns where the ship orientation reverses or hard turns that leave one ship trailing.

The line formation helps shore up it's biggest weakness - those big side blindspots. Good interceptor and A-wing pilots can hide in there pretty easy.  With the front and rear guns, the 2 firesprays can cover each other's blind spots pretty well.

The other list I like for empire is a modified swarm: 1 BH + HLC, 5 APs.  For some reason, it reminds me of the first Lord of the Rings: "They have a Cave-Troll…"  All the little guys dancing around annoying people and the big sucker swinging his HLC hammer everywhere.



#44 Englishpete

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:38 AM

Having spent last night mucking about with lists, I am tempted to try this in open combat. The high PS along with no real standout target may make for a good flight.

The Ion Cannon's have that nice range 3 for an annoying early cripple shot and Fett's Seismic Charge can be placed to maximum effect. I think target locking will suffice for rerolls. I have had lots of luck with Ion Cannons in rebel builds, let's see if the extra range makes up for the lack of turret mount.

I'll let you know how it goes in a real fight this weekend.

Total Squad Points: 99

Pilot: Academy Pilot 1
Tie Fighter (12)
Upgrades:

  • No Upgrades Selected


Pilot: Boba Fett
Firespray-31 (39)
Upgrades:

  • Veteran Instincts (1)
  • Siesmic Charges (2)
  • Ion Cannon (3)


Pilot: Kath Scarlet
Firespray-31 (38)
Upgrades:

  • Veteran Instincts (1)
  • Ion Cannon (3)


 The alternate option was to drop the Academy pilot and put a Seismic on Kath as well and give them both Homing Missiles. That seemed particularly nasty on first strike. I could see Ion Cannon as the first attack, then next round 2 missiles up the tail pipe of whomever.

 


To every man upon this Earth Death cometh soon or late. And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods?
(Horatius: Captain of the Gate)


#45 hothie

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:28 PM

So, I played 2 games against a Wedge/Biggs/Chewie squad. The first game, I played:

Boba Fett with HLC, Seismic Charge, and Veteran Instincts
Mauler with VI
Bounty Hunter

Mauler went down quickly, only taking 2 shields off of Biggs. Biggs lasted 2 rounds before going down. Wedge did lots of damage to the Bounty Hunter. It went down, then fett took Wedge down. It ended with Fett vs Chewie. He won, chewie had 6 hull left. Fett got the Console Fire crit card that gave me 2 damage because I couldn't get rid of it due to collisions and K-turns. So it could have been closer, but I think he still would have won.

So then I changed it up to:

Fett with HLC and Seismic Charge
Dark Curse with Stealth
Bounty Hunter

This game was much closer. I put a lot of damage on him early (put 3 on Chewie when Biggs was out of Range), but Biggs still lasted 3 combat rounds. Wedge was a lot less effective this time, and it got down to Fett and Dark Curse vs a hurt chewie. Fett was hurt, so he took him down, but that left Chewie with 1 hull left vs Dark Curse. I rolled 1 hit, he evaded, he shot at me, I evaded. Then I got Range 1 on him. I rolled 3 dice, 1 hit, 2 blanks. He evaded. He attacked, I evaded. And time ran out then, so he won on points, but it was very close. One die different in those last 2 rounds, when I had taken the focus action both times, and I win.

He and I both thought my second squad was better. My opponent is naturally going to try to kill the TIE first, so if I give him a very hard target to kill, maybe he'll go after the firepsrays instead, making them all last longer. And Dark Curse was the last one on the board, which is odd for a build like this. So even though Iost, I think I'm still going to take this to Regionals Saturday. It played pretty well, and the HLC was a beast. And I did manage to hit him both times with my Seismic Charge. So I do like that.

We talked a little about downgrading Dark Curse to an Academy TIE and putting HLC on the BH as well, but I'm not real fond of that idea since my BH didn't get enough front arc range 2-3 shots to make it worth changing.



#46 spacemonkeymafia

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 05:45 PM

I think the double HLC build is a play style choice. In the example you have above, you mention that the BH didn't really have a lot of opportunity to front arc at range 2-3. I believe a big reason why is he never needed to be. You didnt have an HLC on him so you likely flew him differently. Not saying either was bad but just pointing out that your outcome might be different if you were actively pursuing that strategy.

One other thing that I'm curious about- you mention the falcon + 2 X-wing build is your biggest fear and you are constantly trying to build something against it but have yet to have anything consistent. Why not play the falcon build at regionals then? Is there another aspect of it that you find inferior? Do you feel it's too cheesy? Worried about endless mirror matches?

Sorry to skip around but mauler is a waste in these builds.  Sounds like you're coming to that conclusions well. He's just too easy of a target and with the HLC or falcon + gunner out there, you'll likely only get one shot off. I prefer the defensive TIE fighter strategy as I want my opponent to forget about the nuisance and focus on the big Firespray threats. Then that TIE fighter can hopefully get a few easy shots off and do more damage over the whole game than a one or two shot Mauler did.



#47 hothie

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:26 AM

Well, if I go with HLC on the BH and an Academy Pilot, that makes my skills 8, 3, 1, which I'm not too thrilled about. Unless I go with 2 BH's with HLC and Dark Curse, which would be 6, 3, 3. I could see that at 99 pts. But my strategy has been to play more of an "I formation" with them. The BH in front blocks and can keep targets at Range 2-3 for Fett to unload on them. Having 2 large ships in an I formation doesn't leave my opponent much room to move straight at me, so they have to veer off and come back  at me differently. But the Falcon doesn't worry about that with the 360 arc, which is what is giving me trouble.

And I expect to see a lot of people playing HSF at Regionals, if for no other reason than it's very powerful and very easy to play. So I want something that I think can beat it, which I think 2 Firesprays can. The trouble that I'm having is that there is so much variety and parity now, that who knows what people are going to buld and bring to Regionals? I can beat HSF if I fly well, I think, but can I beat every other squad that people can dream up? I got real close last night in game 2. Came down to dice rolls, so I'm ok with that. And that was another variant of falcon and 2 X's.

And Dark Curse did do a lot more damage than Mauler does, because Mauler does go down quickly. I planned for him to die soon. I was just trying to get a trade off for when he does. I'll trade Mauler for Biggs any day. He just doesn't do as much damage as I'd like him to. But yeah, it seems Dark Curse will be a better fit for 2 firesprays.



#48 Picasso

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:41 AM

 

I’ve stayed off this thread for a while because I was curious about what others thought of the Han list.  First, I built this list to be easy to fly.  This list should always be attacking something because of the 360.  Those assessments that you guys have made are spot on.  I wrote an article about the Han list, it is up on the following site. 

 

http://swcommongroun...ndorf/#more-459

 

As for all these other people playing the list, I’ve gone against them flying it and took whatever list I thought of.  I lost one game.  I focus on shooting down the X-wings first then Han.  Missile heavy lists work so well.  They also work against the Firesprays.    Vader too can be a beast against Han with his two actions.   Night Beast when used correctly is amazing against Han. 

Now here is my favorite, Arvel.  I’ve run Arvel and Lando to destroy large ship lists.  First Arvel with a cluster missile and bumping a large ship is awesome.  Also Lando can give him a focus to get things DONE!!!!  Arvel also draws a ton of fire from Lando because the second your opponent figures out what you are doing they open up on him. 

I can say that I will NOT be flying the Han list at Star Wars Weekend.  I do plan on crushing ANYONE who flies it.



#49 hothie

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

Well, my eyes really hurt, and I've been up for 20+ hours, but I'm waiting for the sleepy meds to kick in, so figured I'd get this written up in the mean time. I attended my first Regional Tournament today in Independence, Missouri. There were 14 of us there. First off, let me say thanks to the guys from Game Cafe for putting on a great tournament. It was well run, and went very smoothly.

I ran:

Boba Fett with Heavy Laser Cannon and Expert handling
Dark Curse with Stealth
Bounty Hunter

I took off the seismic charges in favor of expert handling because I was afraid of opponents getting into my blind spots, so I put Expert Handling on fett to try and take care of that. And I did use Expert Handling every game, so I think it helped.

My first game was against Nathan. He ran Howlrunner, Krassis, and 3 Academy Pilots. He put Krassis on 1 end of the board with the ties on the other end. So I faced the ties first before having to deal with the firespray. That worked out well for me. The first combat round I managed to take out Howlrunner, which was big. He ended up killing my Bounty Hunter, and when time was called, I had killed all but 1 Academy Pilot. 1-0

Next round I faced Rogue17, who was one of the TO's on the day. He brought 4 Awings with Deadeye and Assault Missiles. This was a good game of cat and mouse, with me staying close to him so that if he did missile me he would hit his own ships. I think only 1 of the Assault Missiles hit, and I killed one of the Awings before it launched its missile. My Bounty Hunter was down to 1 hull left, but i didn't lose a single ship. 2-0

Next round i faced Kelvan. He ran Vader with Swarm Tactics and Concussion Missiles, Bounty Hunter with Gunner, Night Beast, and Academy Pilot. My strategy was to take Vader out as soon as I could, and that's what ended up happening. He collided with Night Beast in an asteroid bottleneck, and I managed to finish him off. After that Night Beast killed himself on an asteroid. He did put lots of damage on me in the first round, and again my Bounty Hunter had 1 hull left. But I weathered the early storm and came out on top. 3-0

Then the semifinals game was aganst Gavin. he brought a 7 tie swarm. Howlrunner with Stealth and 6 Obsidian Pilots. The first combat round my Bounty Hunter took 8 hits, and that hurt a lot, but I managed to take howlrunner out to get rid of his rerolls. The next round I killed 3 of his ties due to Direct Hits. I did lose my Bounty Hunter that game, and fett was colliding a lot with the ships he had left. Of course, he was positioning them so that i would hit, and most of the time I did. But I pulled a win out of that game. 4-0

The final match was against Kelvan again, as I was his only loss of the day. He learned from our earlier match, and I didn't. he changed things up a bit, and in hindsight, I should have, too, but I didn't. I went after vader again, and I did manage to get him down to 1 hull left, but i couldn't get the final blow on him. We were both evading like mad that game, and when there was only 5 minutes left, he had killed my Dark Curse, and I hadn't killed anything of his. He did a great job of blocking with his Academy Pilot all game, and most of the time my Bounty Hunter couldn't take actions. The last round he took out my Bounty Hunter, and I conceded as there was no way I could kill enough of his to win. Looking back, I should have gone after his Bounty Hunter with my squad, because once it's gone, he wouldn't have had much offense for taking my squad down. plus it would have given me a 38 point cushion for scoring.

I think I'll run this list again next weekend, since I faced 2 Slave and Tie squads, an Awing Missile squad, and a TIE swarm, and beat them all. So I think my squad passed the test of facing multiple varieties of squads and coming out on top. Thanks again to the TO's for running the tournament, and i hope to see you all again soon.



#50 The R5Don4 Star II

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:45 AM

Nice report Mr. Hoth.  Excellent job with the double Firespray build. 

Interesting match ups and squad choices.  No Falcons, no X wings, no Y Wings, no Interceptors.  Were other players using them and it just didn't come up for you?



#51 Kelvan

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:06 AM

There were a few Falcon lists, only 1 true "han shoots first" though. I think there was a Chewie build with wedge and a lando, horton, luke build that went to 4th place.

 

I got to play Hothie twice and it was some of the most difficult games I've ever played. I swear he's more intimidating because he's so nice, if that makes sense at all. Plus he determines inititiave with this world champion coin… 

 

Hothie I agree that the Bounty Hunter is a ship that might be a better target than vader. What I realized from last round is Vader could probably live if I could keep him with actions, I I tried to fly where there was more room and just skirmish with him for the rest of the game. The Bounty hunter really can't run though, and it's the source of most of my offiense.

 

Once I killed dark Curse I realized I had a decent shot of winning (I thought I was going to lose for about an hour, he had brought my Vader down to 1 hull and he was worth 35. But I had Vader pretty much away from the action and both of my ties were the only things he could kill and were worth less than DC.



#52 hothie

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:15 AM

There were 3 falcon builds there. Two were played by the 2 women at the tourney. One of them was the other undefeated in the semifinals. Kelvan beat her. She ran Lando, Luke, and Horton. It was interesting, and obviously effective. There were no 2 squads the same at the tourney, which is what I predicted a long time ago. I don't think there were many Interceptor builds. I wasn't paying too close attention to the people I didn't play against, but I didn't see many interceptors out there. There were a few 3 ship rebel builds, with Xwings, Ywings, and Awings in different combos.

Here are some photos I took yesterday:

This was game 1 against Nathan. You can see how he set up. He didn't really use Howlrunner's ability very effectively at all (she's far left in this photo). He isolated her, and then I took her out right away.

This one was my first game against Kelvan. you can see the asteroid bottleneck where i got him to run into his own ships, thus taking Vader's actions away, thus allowing me to kill him easier.

And this one was against Gavin and his TIE swarm. You can see Howlrunner in the middle of the left group. You can also see how I set up the asteroids so that he would have to run the gauntlet to get to me. Big open area on the right for my slaves to maneuver.



#53 Kelvan

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:13 PM

Hothie I tried your list out today against wedge w/ptl, pt, r2f2 and stealth along with 2x green squads with ptl, concussion missiles, and stealth…

 

I can't fly that list as well as you did, I got worked.



#54 Silver leader

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:21 PM

i was there with:

Green sqaudron pilot: dead eye, cluster // Wedge: R2, Shield upgrade, Marksmenship // Dutch: R5D8, ion, proton torpedos

I believe it was Kelvin who everytime he passed my matches was astonished at my ability to keep wedge alive

 

the squad did very well, i know there are builds centered around 1 ship and added support, or on theme but i like how my squad each has a threat, granted wedge is the greatest. but the focus on wedge opens up green to make a cluster blitz or Dutch to float and control the middle.

i wish there had been time to do a few funzi matches with some of the new faces (to me) i saw there


Fear no enemy, fear no opponent. No squad is too good, and no pilot is better. What matters is whats now because it decides whats next. Fight today, to live through to tomorrow.

 

-Landon, Silver Leader


#55 hothie

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:46 AM

Kelvan said:

 

Hothie I tried your list out today against wedge w/ptl, pt, r2f2 and stealth along with 2x green squads with ptl, concussion missiles, and stealth…

 

I can't fly that list as well as you did, I got worked.

 

 

That list relies on their missiles for an alpha strike and their stealth for defense afterwards. That looks like a pretty tough list, and if I get someone flying it well, I might likely get worked, too.



#56 Cid_MCDP

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 03:46 AM

So I gotta ask- did you see anyone playing the Kath + Ion thing and if so, how did the TOs rule? 



#57 hothie

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:02 AM

I didn't see anyone playing it, although there were a few firesprays being played. I don't know if that combo was played or not.

#58 Cid_MCDP

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:55 AM

Just curious. 

Still considering rolling it. I never got a reply to my rules question, I'm assuming you didn't either? 



#59 Cid_MCDP

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:57 AM

Whoa! Is the guy in your first picture using a pill organizer to keep track of his tokens??? That's BRILLIANT!



#60 hothie

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:32 AM

I'll definitely post on the rules thread the minute I get a response from ffg. Yeah, I think he was using something like that for his tokens.




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