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The Emperor's Chosen


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#21 Cynr

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:56 AM

Agreed. I have no problem with Ascension-level, although I am not sure how that would work with Deathwatch.  As for the 2 "broken" classes people cry about… they are only broken with bad GMs.  (Vindicare can kill one guy at a time and is usually psyker bait for WP tests and autofire since he Dodges once and hopes he gets a lot of success…. oh, and yes the Primaris can sweep a room clear given tactics and the fluff about psykers, everyone should be shooting him dead first… umm, more autofire weapons work just fine.)  Not broken, just hyper-specialized.



#22 Gamgee

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:10 AM

Anyone have some news on this? Anything at all? Content, previews, or release date in July?



#23 Wonder Lemming

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

There was a preview a few weeks ago

 

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=4211

 

Based on FFG's track record I would expect the book to ship late July and be available in shops early August.



#24 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:10 PM

Vindicares can get a Dodge of 105% (Agility 75 + Dodge +20 + 10 for Unnatural Agility reducing level of difficulty) and Dark Heresy does not have auto-fail rolls.

 

BC has the same sillyness because of its +30 skills.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 12 July 2013 - 03:11 PM.


#25 Gamgee

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:39 AM

There was a preview a few weeks ago

 

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=4211

 

Based on FFG's track record I would expect the book to ship late July and be available in shops early August.

Hmmm..... I'm not sure if this book looks worth it. It looks like it will be mostly NPC stat profiles which are more or less compeltely useless to me. I'll give it a look over in the store before I make my decision. It looks a little on the lazy side. Though if they price it cheap enough I won't have a problem.



#26 Morangias

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:45 AM

While this is true of Primaris Psykers (god they're OP), most Ascension classes are just as brittle as ever.  A Vindicare can dodge 14 times, but that just increases his chance of success.  He's going to fail eventually.  If you roll that many times, you ARE going to roll a one.  And then you're dead, because a Vindicare has about as much armour as a grapefruit.  If you're going to criticise Ascension, criticise it for the remarkable difference in power levels between almost every other Ascension class and the poor stormtrooper.  

It's easy to build a Vindicare that gets several degrees of success on a natural 100 on his Dodge roll. They also get Unnatural Toughness, which actually makes them much better able to take a hit than any other Ascension class, barring Magos (who also gets Unnatural Toughness, on top of a ton of armor). A lousy Hellgun (truly a mediocre weapon at Ascension level, as evidenced by people rightfully groaning about the Stormtrooper) makes any armor short of powered utterly insignificant. Only Magos can stack enough armor on himself to truly reduce most shots. Meanwhile, Unnatural Toughness means you're easily reducing 10 damage every attack - combined with how few attacks will hit you in the first place those twenty-something Wounds you most likely have at the moment will last you a long time.

 

 

Dok Martin said:

 

I always find it a bit curious how a 250-page book is reduced to 2 unbalanced career classes: "Ascension is broken."

 

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly Doc! Many of the things "Floated" in ascension went on to be very popular in later series. Skill combinations and the Influence system which is the precurser to all of the 40k rpg economic systems. I think FFG in that time was testing Ideas to see what would be more effective in later "core products". Just sayin' Some things worked better than others. Don't like it? Don't use it!

 

 

Profit Factor was there before Ascension, and it's rules were much better defined. Streamlining skills wasn't there until BC, but Ascension's take on it was pretty horrid.

 

There are many problems with Ascension beyond the Primaris and the Vindicare. Influence is a mess that completely obviates the usefulness of Fellowship, and there's absolutely no structure to how it affects gameplay.


Edited by Morangias, 29 July 2013 - 12:54 AM.

There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal.

There is no strenght in flesh, only weakness.
There is no constancy in flesh, only decay.
There is no certainty in flesh but death.


#27 Gamgee

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:24 PM

Anyone have this yet? Thoughts?



#28 Giantcavecrab

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:56 AM

Anyone have this yet? Thoughts?

 

Mine came today (in the UK) It wasnt what I was expecting TBH.  I've granted not read this yet (just scanned over my lunch break), but the second chapter (after an intro chapter) seems to detail several 'Heroes' of the deathwatch.  You get their backstories as well as details on any relics that are unique to that character.  By the time I'd gotten to the end of this chapter I seemed to be nearing the centre of the book (Its page count is around that of The Emperor protects probably)  Then there follows a section on the crafting of legacies and all I can say on this is that they group together with cool names like 'Deamon Hunter' etc.

 

*Spoiler Warning*

 

Theres an adventure in the back as well, and all I picked up on that was theres a Chaos Marine terminator in it with a lightning claw and a flamer :-P

 

So to summarise - Not a detailed review.  But it isn't remotely 'Ascencion for Space Marines'.

 

Plenty of nice art in it mind :)



#29 Gamgee

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:02 PM

Yea this seems like a letdown. Which is a shame. The last good supplement was Outer Reach. Ark of Lost Souls was alright. This looks... kinda bad. I think it might be the first "bad" supplement of them so far. In that it doesn't live up to the others in terms of what it adds. It's so easy for me to make an NPC hero it isn't even funny. As a matter of fact I have several in my campaign. This item seems so niche.

 

Oh well I already had it on order. So it's too late to cancel now. Thanks for sharing. If you get the chance to go into more detail let me know.



#30 PhilOfCalth

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:49 AM

I've my eye out for a propper review, but so far what Giantcavecrab posted is the closest I've got. I'd be interested in any more insite anyone has after a propper reading.

 

Or if anyone has seen a full review of it anywhere



#31 Adeptus-B

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:58 AM

I'm not seeing any reason to pick this up- why would I want details for what amounts to someone else's character?

 

The back-up adventure would have to be pretty spectacular for me to buy this- is it? Has anyone read it yet?



#32 Gamgee

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:43 AM

Yes he seems to be right, I got it today. No chance to read, so far it seems like a gigantic let down. I'll let you know how that adventure is.

 

I thought this would allow the group to go to Watch Commander levels of play or something similar. It's nothing like that in the slightest. Incredibly disappointing.



#33 HappyDaze

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:40 AM

I spent 30 minutes reviewing the copy my FLGS had on hold for me. I told them to take my name off of the sticker and put it on the shelf. This book is a stinker.


Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#34 Gamgee

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:12 PM

They're so cheap they don't even give you any stats for these mythical heroes. I know it's unlikely they would be around, but just in case. It would be nice.



#35 Giantcavecrab

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:05 AM

I was going to read / review this one.  But to be honest nothing about its making me want to pick it up and read it.


Edited by Giantcavecrab, 20 August 2013 - 04:07 AM.


#36 Gamgee

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:02 AM

I was going to read / review this one.  But to be honest nothing about its making me want to pick it up and read it.

I know how you feel.



#37 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:47 AM

I got a copy on monday. It isn't "Ascension Deathwatch" in the same way - no new careers, no new skills. At least not per se.

 

What you get:

 

Chapter 1: Much, much background goodness about what happens to marines after their deathwatch secondments, and how/why some are selected to come back - or not to leave at all. The criteria for picking Watch-captains, are pondered on.

 

Chapter 2: In the same way Jericho Reach and GM's guide named most of the current command hierarchy and the Chamber of the Vigil, this section lists off seven famous former kill-teams. More than just background - it tells you who the kill-team consisted of, describes each member, tells you what they were famous for, including several pages of their most famous mission (usually a Famous Last Stand [tm]) - and then gives for each one a set of adventure seeds relating to their legacy and (for all but one kill-team) some of their relics that are left in the deathwatch's possession, which your players are likely to give more of a damn about if they know the whole story rather than just 'it's a +2 relic blade'...

 

Chapter 3: The meat of the 'rules' section. There's no ascension as a marine. Rather you become awesome as a kill-team as a whole. You agree as a kill-team to buy a legacy for what we shall refer to as a "holy bejeezus metric shed-tonne" of XP each. You pick one of the several options. Each member is awarded by his peers in the kill-team a title from a list such as 'breaker of hordes', 'guardian from afar', 'preceptor of shadows', and so on. Each legacy includes five such titles in various combinations, though you can expand them to add more (at a cost). Each title has a benefit to the bearer befitting the name.

 

In addition, each legacy gives the team leader three manouvres to call upon - one offensive, one defensive and one tactical, which can again be added to for XP to up to two of each. These are broadly akin to squad actions, except for three differences:

 

1) They don't cost cohesion to use, instead requiring a check by the team leader (usually command but often tactics)

2) They require a very high squad cohesion score to allow the attempt - as in I think about the lowest needs cohesion 10.

3) The results are very slightly awesome. An out-of-turn suppressive fire from everyone in the kill-team at a defined area plus a 'free reaction' overwatch attack from everyone in the kill-team at anyone moving in the same area, for example.

 

There are also some unique relics for one of the legacies. Including a custom-made stalker-pattern which is essentially a marine-calibre barratt.

 

Chapter 4: A (quite sizeable) adventure picking up from the last stand of a famous former kill-team (one of the ones from Chapter 2)



#38 PhilOfCalth

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:27 AM

Awesome. Looks like I'd be better leaving picking it up until I get into a game that gets to ascension level.

 

When you say the adventure is "quite sizable", how long would you estimate it would take to play through in hours.



#39 Adeptus-B

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:01 AM

Chapter 2: In the same way Jericho Reach and GM's guide named most of the current command hierarchy and the Chamber of the Vigil, this section lists off seven famous former kill-teams. More than just background - it tells you who the kill-team consisted of, describes each member, tells you what they were famous for, including several pages of their most famous mission (usually a Famous Last Stand [tm]) - and then gives for each one a set of adventure seeds relating to their legacy and (for all but one kill-team) some of their relics that are left in the deathwatch's possession, which your players are likely to give more of a damn about if they know the whole story rather than just 'it's a +2 relic blade'...

 

Sounds like 'fan-fiction' from the Playtest groups...

 

Could you give us more info on the Adventure? No 'spoilers', of course, but general info (adversaries, setting, objectives) to get a sense of how it would play...?



#40 The_Big_Show

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:13 AM

I've only skimmed through the book at the moment but I was a tad disappointed. I was expecting something that lets you take top rank marines a bit further, kind of an epic level handbook. Sadly it isn't anything like that. About the only thing that will be useful to me in this is probably the scenario.






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