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Two weapon fighting and Righteous fury


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#1 Xathrodox86

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:48 AM

Ok, so I have two questions:

 

1. My PC is fighting with a sword and a pistol in each hand. I've read in rulebook and errata that I can perform a single attack with both of them, even if I don't have two weapon wielder, ambidextrous, etc. Does this mean I can, for example, shoot the gun on full auto and use a swift attack with my melee weapon on an opponent that is standing close to me?

2. When a PC or NPC rolls a 10 on a damage dice, then he/she gets the Righteous fury! Now in Rulebook the Righteous fury only apllies to normal attacks, but what about psy powers? Does my PC get's Righteous fury when he rolls a 10 on a psychic attack like fire bolt?



#2 Darth Smeg

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:57 PM

By the Dark Heresy rules, no, you cannot make the combination you describe. 

The Errata specifies, but if you use a Swift or Lightning attack Action, and have a pistol in your other hand, you may make "a single attack" with this pistol.

Pistols are also limited to single-shots only when engaged in melee, even when not dual wielding, so it would be very strange if you could somehow make more versaitile ranged attacks in melee just by picking up a blade :)

As for Righteous fury, it can apply to Psychic powers dealing damage, but it's a GM call whether it applies to NPCs or not. A guide is that it will apply for those important NPCs with Fate Points.


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My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#3 Xathrodox86

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:44 AM

Ok, but the "single attack" does mean a semi or a full auto burst, yes? I think I've read about it somewhere on these forums. Could be wrong though.

Where's the source on a single shot only in melee? I've read both the rulebook and the errata and couldn't find it.

Thanks about the info on psy pwers. The firestorm is a real beast of a power with these rules.



#4 KommissarK

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:16 AM

The single shot vs. full auto in melee may be a broader rules issue when considering the use of DW/BC/OW rules in a DH game.

To be totally honest, dual wielding without any of the talents is a markedly terrible idea. At least buy one of them before you try. Why are you trying to make two attacks at a -30 (or whatever the penalty is).

I'm reasonably sure DH does allow the use of semi/full auto pistols while in melee (it doesn't have as strict a use of action subtypes if I recall).

 

As far as Righteous Fury on Psychic Powers. As Smeg said, NPCs should only really benefit from it if they are "significant" (i.e. have Fate Points).

As far as Psychic powers themselves, the general consensus is that yes they can Righteous Fury. I'm actually in a small minority (it may just be me actually) who says they can't. My justification for this comes from how the wording for Righteous Fury quite explictitly says when rolling damage from an attack that was made using WS or BS (p.195 Righteous Fury sidebar "Testing Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill as if you were making another attack").

I justify it as well by how much more effective psychic powers tend to be.



#5 Darth Smeg

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:50 PM

Xathrodox86 said:

 

Ok, but the "single attack" does mean a semi or a full auto burst, yes? I think I've read about it somewhere on these forums. Could be wrong though.

Where's the source on a single shot only in melee? I've read both the rulebook and the errata and couldn't find it.

 

 

No, it means a single shot.
 

The ruling on single-shots only in melee came from a rules answer from Ross Watson in 2011 (before BC and OW were released, so he does not specify those games in his answers, though it is safe to say the rulings apply to all the game lines).

See post #19 in this thread. I quote, for your convenience:

"> 1) Can pistols burst in close combat in DW? (And if yes, doesn't
> that carry a high risk of wildly straying shots?)

No. Pistols fired in melee fire a single shot.

 

> 2) If no, does that mean this is a DW-specific change or does that
> apply to all of 40k RP?

It applies to Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch.

 

> 3) What actions can be done with pistols in close combat other than
> Standard Attacks? Multiple Attack (if so only 2-handed attacks only
> or does swift strike, etc also apply)? All-out attack? Guarded
> attack? I am asking because page 240 indicates more than standard
> attacks are possible.

Standard Attack (or as part of two-weapon fighting) only.

 

> 4) Does the answer given to question 3 carry on to all of 40K RP or
> only DW?

It applies to Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch."


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My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#6 Darth Smeg

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

KommissarK said:

As far as Psychic powers themselves, the general consensus is that yes they can Righteous Fury. I'm actually in a small minority (it may just be me actually) who says they can't. My justification for this comes from how the wording for Righteous Fury quite explictitly says when rolling damage from an attack that was made using WS or BS (p.195 Righteous Fury sidebar "Testing Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill as if you were making another attack").

I justify it as well by how much more effective psychic powers tend to be.

Well, the Deathwatch Errata adressed this specifically:

"Psychic Powers and Righteous Fury (page 186): add the following section to the Psychic Powers in Deathwatch section preceding the Perils of the Warp (page 186): “Psychic Powers that deal damage can benefit from Righteous Fury (see page 245). When a chance for Righteous Fury occurs, the attacker re-rolls the Focus Power Test using the same modifiers and power level as the original Focus Power Test to use a psychic ability. If the original test was an Opposed Willpower Test,  the  defender  re-rolls  Willpower  using  the  same  modifiers  as  the original Opposed Willpower Test. The roll to confirm Righteous Fury does not generate Psychic Phenomena or Perils of the Warp.”"

While that isn't considered WAR for DH, it certainly counters some of your arguments considering how the wording of the Righteous Fury rules is the same in both games :)

 

Bear in mind that the Psy rules in DW are a little different in that you roll WP tests instead of a bunch of d10s. Ross also answered a specific question about this:

Q.) Does Righteous Fury work with Psychic Powers? In the righteous fury rules on 245, it seems to indicate that it only happens due to weapon damage. However some powers (Avenger and Smite mainly) function like ranged weapons. Does Righteous Fury work with all Psychic powers, none, or only
ones like the 2 I mentioned here?

A.) Psychic Powers can score Righteous Fury (assuming that they are being used by a PC or an NPC with the Touched by the Fates Trait).

As far as I know, this has never been answered officially for DH specifically, but feel free to drop the devs a rules question (see the link at the very bottom of this page). Be sure to let us know what they say :)


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#7 Darth Smeg

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

Darth Smeg said:

As far as I know, this has never been answered officially for DH specifically, but feel free to drop the devs a rules question (see the link at the very bottom of this page). Be sure to let us know what they say :)

 

Replying to disagree with myself, here. Must be going insane atontado

The rules for Righteous Fury are not specific to Melee/Ranged Attacks, but specify:

“Normally, when you hit with an attack, the resulting Damage includes rolling one or more d10s. When you roll a 10 on any die (this includes a result of 10 when using  a  d5—even  though  the  number  is  halved),  it may indicate that the eye of the Emperor is upon you.”

As of the 3.0 Errata, Psychic Powers count as attacks, and therefore benefit from Righteous Fury according to DH RAW.

So there it is. The issue is resolved. The Rules Lawyer hath spoken! (And there was much rejoicement)


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#8 Xathrodox86

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:30 AM

Ok, so in the end if I have a melee weapon and a pistol, I can only fire a single shot, and attack once (no swift/lightning attack) yes? If I'd like to fire semi/full auto or use a swift/lightning attack, then I can't use my other weapon, is that correct?



#9 Darth Smeg

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:06 AM

No, you can combine swift or lightning attacks with a single shot with a pistol. Or with a single attack with a melee weapon in your off hand.

But you may not combine semi or full auto shots with any melee attacks, as you may not use semi or full auto in melee.


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games





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