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Expansions based on the prequels?


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#21 Toqtamish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:39 AM

It is really in their own interest to make it a separate game. Doesn't piss off those that hate the prequels, keeps both games "pure", and makes them more money as it is a separate game. All of this assumes they even have the rights/interest to do anything with the prequels.

 

For the record I don't hate the prequels, I am a huge Clone Wars tv show fan but I do want both time periods separate and distinct from each other. The prequels and the classics have very different tone to them and I think the prequels deserve their own game that can match their own unique style.



#22 Whitefro

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:46 AM

Admittedly the death star dial does seem to suggest only allowing a gcw timeline. But the genosians gave the plans to dooku at the end of ep. 2 and we see it being built at the end of ep. 3. I don't think it would be a stretch to extend the dial as a timetable for the dark side amassing enough power.

One of many problems though would seem to be the idea that the jedi at the beginning of the prequel are to some extent in the position of power and it would be the dark side that would have to try to wittle away at the light sides power. On the other hand, the jedi order had been weakening so it might not be such a stretch to say that they are trying to slow the almost inevitable rise of the dark side. 

There's also the problem of factions and what we do with things like imperial navy or rebel alliance during this period. I own quite a bit of the sw minis game by wotc and although they didn't have a built in system of struggle like this game does, it did divide the factions across periods (Including going into the old repbulic). There were restricions on assembling your squad based upon faction with some units allowing cross-faction squad builds:

Palpatine existed as an imp that made clones playable in that faction via order 66. There was also a separatist Darth Sidious.

I love star wars, and I mean all of it. I can accept that some of it is better than others, but I don't like the tediuousness of having to pick a side just for the sake of drawing a line in the sand. For that matter I also like Star Trek. I can see lots of problems with bringing the other eras into the game, but if done properly I would welcome it (Don't bring Star Trek into it because that would be weird and I was just using that as an example of duality).

At any rate, I think ffg could do it, but they have plenty of material to work with just in this era. They have plenty of time to figure out how they can bring Qui-Gon and Maul into the picture, how the Solo twins can make an appearance, and maybe even figure out a way to get the Shans onto some cardboard. But for now, they still need to get me hoth, jabba's palace, and why not there better be some Xizor coming at us as well (Scum and Villany FTW!).



#23 sWhiteboy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

All this talk about crossing timelines…

You guys do realize that SW is all ONE timeline.  It's the story of one person's life.  To suggest that there is some sort of weird timeline mixing between the two…that's just rampant fanboyism (or rampant hating on Episodes I-III).



#24 Muad Dib

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

And then there's the whole problem you run into with the light side playing Anakin Skywalker… and the dark side playing Darth Vader.

You gotta keep um' sep-a-rated…

 

Missa ganna t wait to open da Phantom Menace core set and pull out missa binks!" apesta



#25 Whitefro

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:21 AM

sWhiteboy said:

 

All this talk about crossing timelines…

You guys do realize that SW is all ONE timeline.  It's the story of one person's life.  To suggest that there is some sort of weird timeline mixing between the two…that's just rampant fanboyism (or rampant hating on Episodes I-III).

 

 

Yes its all one timeline in the grand scheme of things, but it is absolutely not the story of one person's life. Episodes I-VI follow the events in the star wars universe from the perspective of the Skywalkers, specifically Anakin and Luke. But the Star Wars franchise is so much more than just the Skywalkers and this particualr time period.

As for it being one timeline, you are correct, but it is about like saying if you are making a game about European warfare that you should include, without restricition or recognition of the differences, Napolionics era military units and the world war era military units (which could easily be sub-divided between the two wars and almost always is [even further world war two is often divided between front and even early and late war]). Yes all of these events took place between the 1800s and early 20th century, and therefore they are part of one timeline. That does not mean that we can't divide that timeline into parts between the periods.



#26 Whitefro

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:22 AM

edit: double post



#27 MarthWMaster

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

Muad Dib said:

 

And then there's the whole problem you run into with the light side playing Anakin Skywalker… and the dark side playing Darth Vader.

You gotta keep um' sep-a-rated…

 

 

The same "problem" will inevitably arise when both sides are playing Lando Calrissian. And I'm sure this situation will have a solution worked out in the rules. FFG is never shy about adding mechanics to their games when necessary, and wresting control of contested characters, perhaps using Force icons, would certainly be a welcome mechanic in a game based on the Star Wars setting.


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#28 sWhiteboy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:19 PM

Or….they could just let both players use the same named character.  It's not like the game makes sense from a cannon standpoint anyways.



#29 SmokeyJ

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:16 AM

I liked the way Decipher handled the Lando issue in the SW:CCG.  In that game, the DS Lando could be replaced by the LS Lando (LS player would pay to deploy LS Lando, had to do it at the same location as DS Lando), but the DS could not replace the LS Lando (which makes sense from the standpoint of the movies since when we first meet Lando he has been forced to work with the Empire but then crosses back over and remains with the Rebels for the remainder of the movies).  I think a similar replacement mechanic could work in this game as well.



#30 Darik

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

There will just be new factions - probably one new faction for each side. 

But I think we'll see cards for all of Episodes IV - VI and perhaps even all of Episodes VII - IX before we see any prequel stuff.



#31 daedalusaf

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 02:20 PM

I'd like to see the prequels in a stand-alone product, much like a fusion of the Core Set and Edge of Darkness. i.e, does not require the base Core Set to play. That way, you can easily feature it in its own timeline, or if you are not a stickler for accuracy, mix it up with what we currently have



#32 romo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:15 AM

daedalusaf said:

I'd like to see the prequels in a stand-alone product, much like a fusion of the Core Set and Edge of Darkness. i.e, does not require the base Core Set to play. That way, you can easily feature it in its own timeline, or if you are not a stickler for accuracy, mix it up with what we currently have

 

This probably makes the most sense to me.  Release it as an expansion for this game with enough cards to allow players to have prequel only decks if they wish.  I would certainly welcome the material from the prequels if it was added to this game. I am concerned, however, that a completely separate game would just fracture the player base, and leave us with two games without many players for each.  I think the players are the ones who lose if that is how it plays out.

FFG is not tied to the six affiliations already in the game.  I fully expect more to be added whether it comes from the prequel stuff or not.  And as far as the Death Star dial is concerned, we are about to have Tarkin and the Death Star targeting the rebel base on Hoth.  So the timeline is already out of sync.  I'd be fine with leaving it as it is for prequel stuff, but maybe they could add some things that might make a bit more sense like a "senate dial" that represents Palpitine dissolving the senate and when it reaches 12 the dark side wins, or a "corruption dial" representing Anakin's turn to the dark side that reaches 12 and the dark side wins, etc.

As a Star Wars fan, one of the great things that drew me to this game, and the old Decipher CCG, was the fact that you could set up scenerios that were completely impossible based on the cannon.  I think that really makes things interesting and I would love to have an engagement with Anakin and Leia fighting against Maul and Vader, or some other weird combinations.  



#33 MarthWMaster

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:22 AM

romo said:

daedalusaf said:

 

I'd like to see the prequels in a stand-alone product, much like a fusion of the Core Set and Edge of Darkness. i.e, does not require the base Core Set to play. That way, you can easily feature it in its own timeline, or if you are not a stickler for accuracy, mix it up with what we currently have

 

 

 

This probably makes the most sense to me.  Release it as an expansion for this game with enough cards to allow players to have prequel only decks if they wish.  I would certainly welcome the material from the prequels if it was added to this game. I am concerned, however, that a completely separate game would just fracture the player base, and leave us with two games without many players for each.  I think the players are the ones who lose if that is how it plays out.

FFG is not tied to the six affiliations already in the game.  I fully expect more to be added whether it comes from the prequel stuff or not.  And as far as the Death Star dial is concerned, we are about to have Tarkin and the Death Star targeting the rebel base on Hoth.  So the timeline is already out of sync.  I'd be fine with leaving it as it is for prequel stuff, but maybe they could add some things that might make a bit more sense like a "senate dial" that represents Palpitine dissolving the senate and when it reaches 12 the dark side wins, or a "corruption dial" representing Anakin's turn to the dark side that reaches 12 and the dark side wins, etc.

As a Star Wars fan, one of the great things that drew me to this game, and the old Decipher CCG, was the fact that you could set up scenerios that were completely impossible based on the cannon.  I think that really makes things interesting and I would love to have an engagement with Anakin and Leia fighting against Maul and Vader, or some other weird combinations.  

I'm sort of the same way, although I also like to see things that could happen, even if they didn't. Leia vs. Maul could've happened. Anakin vs. Vader could not have, but as I said before I think that the instant they introduce the same character for both sides, they should add a rule to govern the situation. I feel that Anakin/Vader's internal struggle is a major focal point of the entire saga, and that creating a simple mechanic to deal with the fact that they're the same person on opposite sides of the Force would in no way harm this game. Since throughout most of the Original Trilogy, Vader remains on the dark side, perhaps you could have Anakin Skywalker in play, with game text that only takes place if Darth Vader is not in play, sort of like the King characters in AGoT. Thus, while Vader remains in play, the presence of Anakin simply represents the conflict within Vader, and not that the two are somehow physically opposed.


"To play a wrong note is insignificant. To play without passion is inexcusable."
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#34 Holliday88

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:05 AM

MarthWMaster said:

I'm sort of the same way, although I also like to see things that could happen, even if they didn't. Leia vs. Maul could've happened. Anakin vs. Vader could not have, but as I said before I think that the instant they introduce the same character for both sides, they should add a rule to govern the situation. I feel that Anakin/Vader's internal struggle is a major focal point of the entire saga, and that creating a simple mechanic to deal with the fact that they're the same person on opposite sides of the Force would in no way harm this game. Since throughout most of the Original Trilogy, Vader remains on the dark side, perhaps you could have Anakin Skywalker in play, with game text that only takes place if Darth Vader is not in play, sort of like the King characters in AGoT. Thus, while Vader remains in play, the presence of Anakin simply represents the conflict within Vader, and not that the two are somehow physically opposed.

 

That's an interesting idea. Or you could even tie it to the balance of the Force. Maybe it's a two sided card that flips to the side that controls the balance? 


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#35 romo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:22 AM

Yeah, I definitely think there could be some interesting mechanics developed with the addition of the prequel material to this game.



#36 yagyu

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:25 AM

Im all for prequel expansions and EU expansions. If they do prequel i would like them to do it similar to the hobbit expansions for LOTR lcg. Or if they do force packs for them which could also be cool then they should make sure that tournemants are defiend by either era or mixed ect. But like for tournys they could then run 2 one for classic era one for prequel era.

I do agree they should have a persona rule for characters like anakin and chancellor palpatine who could be played as both light and dark side decks.

I also say that if u dont like the prequels dont buy or play em lol.

Im sure ffg if they do them will take into account that some ppl wont want them mixed in tounrement play so there really shouldnt be any problem.



#37 Mattr0polis

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:05 AM

romo said:

And as far as the Death Star dial is concerned, we are about to have Tarkin and the Death Star targeting the rebel base on Hoth.  So the timeline is already out of sync.  I'd be fine with leaving it as it is for prequel stuff, but maybe they could add some things that might make a bit more sense like a "senate dial" that represents Palpitine dissolving the senate and when it reaches 12 the dark side wins, or a "corruption dial" representing Anakin's turn to the dark side that reaches 12 and the dark side wins, etc.

They don't even need to go that far. Just make a new Death Star Dial that looks like this:

Like you said, it really doesn't matter anyway cause stuff already is a bit wonky like Tarkin targeting Hoth, or if I play 100% Scum & Villainy faction once Edge of Darkness set comes out.



#38 drkjedi35

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:06 PM

OK, I'm just going to comment on some of the things that have been mentioned so far.  These are just my opinions.

New Death Star Dial:  Not necessary.  It doesn't actually represent the Death Star unless Trench Run is played on it.  So there is no need to make different versions of it, unless they decide to give it away in future GNKs.

Separate PT game from the current game using the same game mechanic:  This won't happen.  Lucas and FFG both know that the PT is no where near as popular as the OT.  A "PT Only" game will not sell anywhere near as well as they would need it to.

Adding PT to the current game:  This definitely will happen if the game lasts that long.  The PT gives FFG many more options in creating objective sets.  Using past Star Wars card games as a reference, there is no reason to think this won't happen.  If you're cool with having Vader and the Emperor fighting side by side, then you should be ok with seeing Vader and Maul fighting side by side.  Neither situation happened in the movies, but there is no reason to think they won't happen in this game.

Adding new factions:  This would not surprise me either.  If the PT is brought into the game, I would expect to see a LS Republic faction and a DC CIS Faction included.  This gives many more options for deck building. 

Anakin vs. Vader, etc.:  They could very easily come  up with some sort of replacement rules to govern what happens when they both hit the tables on both sides of the force, or they could just leave it alone.  In Star Wars Miniatures, I have seen many battles between 2 Anakins or 2 Vaders.  This should be no different.  If a stormtrooper taking out an X-wing is acceptable, then why not Vader killing his younger self?

How I think the PT will be incorporated:  First, I don't think it will happen within the first 2 years.  There is more than enough OT material to pull from.  They will probably release a Deluxe Pack based around the PT to introduce it.  Then later there will be a PT Force Pack arc.  However I also see them adding in some Episode VII-IX stuff shortly thereafter.  Lucasfilm will want to capitalize on the new films as much as possible.

I have seen a lot of people who are commenting on this thread with their emotions.  Most people don't want to see the PT and OT together in one game.  But from a business standpoint, it is only logical.

That's not to say that there won't be other Star Wars games.  I would not be surprised at all to find out that they are releasing another Star Wars miniatures game similar to the WotC game.  I'm actually hoping that they do.  I guess we'll see what happens.



#39 MarthWMaster

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:59 PM

I wouldn't call it wonky, even. Certainly the fact that any given match can present the players with situations that are wildly different from those recalled from the saga is not unique to Star Wars: The Card Game, but is a trait common to all CCGs based on an intellectual property with an overarching storyline, a group that even includes Magic: The Gathering with its annual book cycles. For an in-universe point of view, one needs to think of these games, not as retelling the events from the story in question (that'd be boring), but rather, telling a new story altogether.

When it comes to Star Wars, we are looking at an alternate saga, one in which events that might seem incompatible from a fan's perspective, might make complete sense, if one takes the time to consider how they might have occurred. Let's say, to use the example given, that Tarkin targets Hoth for destruction. This makes complete sense, if one considers the possibility that Tarkin survived the destruction of the Death Star - if indeed it was destroyed at all - and went on to lead the Empire's search for the new rebel base.

To stay on the topic of expansions set in other eras, I want to extend my point a bit further. What if a player chooses to build a DS deck that uses the following cards:

Affiliation: Separatist Confederacy
Darth Maul
Emperor Palpatine

while the LS player brings the following:

Affiliation: Rebel Alliance
Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker

Well this is certainly a mess, at least from the perspective of events as they occur in the Star Wars canon. We have Luke Skywalker, who wasn't even born until the Separatists were defeated; and Maul, who wasn't alive to see his master become Emperor. We also have two revolutions going on at once: one performed by the LS, and one performed by the DS. For this to work, we'll need to broaden our scope of the game's "cinematic design" considerably, perhaps even assuming that a match between decks. And keep in mind that this is only for the purpose of describing how the juxtaposition of these elements could be explained. If one is willing to ignore the saga and just let the game play out as it will, nothing about this should hamper that.

The biggest question, I suppose, is the presence of the Rebel Alliance in a time period still populated by the Separatists. For this I recommend a deleted scene from Revenge of the Sith that I very much regard as canon, in which Mon Mothma and Bail Organa define their motives for opposing the Chancellor, emphasizing that they do not wish to leave the Republic, but preserve it,an  ideal which later evolve into the formation of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. I could easily see Rebel Alliance objectives appearing in a prequel-based expansion, and the affiliation could also exist in the New Republic era, but perhaps with an affiliation that reads "New Republic" while bearing the same symbol.

In this particular match-up, Anakin never turned to the dark side, but joined his wife and the other Senators in their resistance to the newly-formed Empire. Perhaps this turn of events was brought about by Obi-Wan's death at the hands of Darth Maul, who continued to serve his master in the manipulation of various worlds and corporations into forming the Separatist Confederacy. Anakin had no one to train him, leaving his tutelage as a Jedi an open-ended scenario. When he eventually came of age, Anakin trained his son in the ways of the Force. And so on and so forth.

Again, this is just an example of how it's possible to retain the spirit of the saga, while reimagining details to reflect the cards on the table. For me, it's a fun way to look at a familiar story, but I suppose it's not for everyone, and I can certainly understand why some would not want to see cards from different eras splashed into the same deck.


"To play a wrong note is insignificant. To play without passion is inexcusable."
– Beethoven

#40 Karon

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:15 PM

I would be ok with all star wars eras and or storylines being used. Honestly I don't really like any of the movies I'm more of an extended universe and or fighter combat kind of fan. With the modular nature of the game it isn't hard to ignore or not use some card sets in my opinion and I'm all about variety so they can release sets for everything and anything. Galactic civil war. Clone wars. Old republic. New Jedi order. Any and all are free game with me. Just keep it stable and balanced none of this new stuff is over powered stuff. To be fair though this is my first attempt at an lcg. Ccgs ruined card games for me for years. I honestly only picked this up Saturday because I have debated it extensively with The other half before I finally gave in to try it.




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