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Dust Tactics 2nd Edition this year!!


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#21 xBeakeRx

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:40 AM

Gothik said:

Well, my only major charge against current DT rules is lack of regulation of spotter-spamming issue to out-activate enemy, it definitelly should be corrected.  As Loop said, it will also be good to have all the rules and skills in a single rulebook. Changing stats of already existing units smells like GW practice to me but I`m afraid is enevitable in some cases (Hot Dog, Blackhawk, Hermann, Hammers etc.)

If this were GW they would simply make 7 Axis subfactions that progressively get stronger and stronger while the SSU and Allies sit by the wayside waiting 7 years for an update. 



#22 moffmalthus

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:33 AM

LOL…. so true….



#23 Agrivar

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:39 AM

Rule changes aside, I would like that FFG took advantage of a second edition of "Dust Tactics" to make units and heroes more accessible to newcomers. By this I mean doing additional hero packs to make possible to acquire some heroes without having to buy an expansion box (whose rules will have become outdated) and maybe make additional six-soldier unit boxes (as in "The Gunners" and "Battle Grenadiers") to combine two possible units whose only difference is one soldier. I.e. Minbiaturewise, the "Hell Boys" are a "BBQ Squad" with a second flamer, so a new "BBQ Squad" box who included a sixth soldier armed with a flamer would give you the option of fielding a "BBQ Squad" or a "Hell Boys" squad buying only one box. I think the same could be done with "Recon Boys / Death Dealers" and "Recongrenadiers / Sturmpioniere" boxes.

Faction startes boxes would also be greatly appreciated.



#24 moffmalthus

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:07 AM

Faction started boxes are a great idea but I'm not sure 6 man squads will be possible unless your talking level 1 infantry. Even then I think you would see 5 man squads that maybe cost 8 or 9 points.



#25 Dakkon426

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

From what I've been able to gather so far 2.0 will be more of a streamlining then an overhaul, with little change to the core gameplay.

Also a note about spotter spam, do you guys really have trouble beating spotter heavy lists? I've never had much of a problem with being out activated, and most of the time the high activation list get whittle down to equal or less activations by mid-game. I do recognize it as an advantage but I feel its self regulating as the the more spotters their the lower  the overall strength of the army.



#26 Miah999

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:49 AM

Dakkon426 said:

From what I've been able to gather so far 2.0 will be more of a streamlining then an overhaul, with little change to the core gameplay.

Also a note about spotter spam, do you guys really have trouble beating spotter heavy lists? I've never had much of a problem with being out activated, and most of the time the high activation list get whittle down to equal or less activations by mid-game. I do recognize it as an advantage but I feel its self regulating as the the more spotters their the lower  the overall strength of the army.

I don't have a problem fighting it, but I don't like to see it. I just don't feel it's in the spirit of the game, but that's my opinion.

Of course there are other reasons I'd like to se some army orgnization rules, but mostly because I just like naming and orgnizing all my army lists anyway :)

 



#27 xBeakeRx

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:00 PM

Dakkon426 said:

From what I've been able to gather so far 2.0 will be more of a streamlining then an overhaul, with little change to the core gameplay.

Also a note about spotter spam, do you guys really have trouble beating spotter heavy lists? I've never had much of a problem with being out activated, and most of the time the high activation list get whittle down to equal or less activations by mid-game. I do recognize it as an advantage but I feel its self regulating as the the more spotters their the lower  the overall strength of the army.

the problem isn't the spotter spam being a "weaker" army composition, because you really don't need a lot of points to do this. Lets say your first 280 points is a normal army, but then you're wondering what to do with that last 20. Would you take a 20 point infantry unit, or 4 spotter squads, gaining three extra activations? Those three extra activations are probably a lot stronger than that one 20 point unit.



#28 fhaugh

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:22 PM

 You don’t need to create force build lists to deal with the “out-activate to win” armies.  A very simple change would nullify that “tactic” and still keep the game simple.

 

At the start of each turn each player counts their units on the board, including any in/on transports.  If one player has fewer units than the other, they add to their unit cards enough face-down unit cards or “pass cards” to even the difference.  (If the Axis has 7 units and the Allies have 5, the allied player will place 2 face-down unit cards with the rest of his unit cards.  7-5=2)  Pass cards may be activated instead of a normal unit with the following exceptions:

-          You may not activate a pass card as your first activation

-          You may not activate two pass cards in a row

 

A squad with a hero and/or commissar attached only counts as one unit when counting units at the start of the turn, since they must be activated together.  If a player with one or more un-activated pass cards separate a hero from a squad the hero replaces one of the un-activated pass cards.  (If the Allied player has used one of his pass cards and then separates Rhino from the Hammers, Rhino will replace the last unused pass card.)

 

Units are counted at the start of each turn, so as units are destroyed, the number of pass cards, and even the person receiving them may change.  (The Allies have a very successful turn and manage to eliminate 3 enemy units without losing any themselves.  At the start of the new turn the Axis are down to 4 units, and the Allies now have 6 since Rhino detached from the Hammers.  This turn the Axis will receive 2 pass cards.  6-4=2)



#29 Miah999

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

fhaugh said:

 You don’t need to create force build lists to deal with the “out-activate to win” armies.  A very simple change would nullify that “tactic” and still keep the game simple.

 

At the start of each turn each player counts their units on the board, including any in/on transports.  If one player has fewer units than the other, they add to their unit cards enough face-down unit cards or “pass cards” to even the difference.  (If the Axis has 7 units and the Allies have 5, the allied player will place 2 face-down unit cards with the rest of his unit cards.  7-5=2)  Pass cards may be activated instead of a normal unit with the following exceptions:

-          You may not activate a pass card as your first activation

-          You may not activate two pass cards in a row

 

A squad with a hero and/or commissar attached only counts as one unit when counting units at the start of the turn, since they must be activated together.  If a player with one or more un-activated pass cards separate a hero from a squad the hero replaces one of the un-activated pass cards.  (If the Allied player has used one of his pass cards and then separates Rhino from the Hammers, Rhino will replace the last unused pass card.)

 

Units are counted at the start of each turn, so as units are destroyed, the number of pass cards, and even the person receiving them may change.  (The Allies have a very successful turn and manage to eliminate 3 enemy units without losing any themselves.  At the start of the new turn the Axis are down to 4 units, and the Allies now have 6 since Rhino detached from the Hammers.  This turn the Axis will receive 2 pass cards.  6-4=2)

Intresrting, I might give it a try, but I don't see the Dust Studio/FFG guys going for it, but you never know.



#30 Kriegschatten

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

Dakkon426 said:

I've never had much of a problem with being out activated.

 

Well, yeah, because you play Axis, so you can just counter Observer spam with Recon Grenadier spam! burla



#31 Loophole Master

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:13 PM

It's an interesting concept. I'd just get rid of the whole "when you dettach a hero it takes the place on an unused pass card". Dettaching a hero is a good strategy to surprise you enemy and gain an unexpected extra activation. Next round you'd lose that benefit, but it would be good to be able to have it just for the round where you dettach it.



#32 Miah999

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:36 PM

Loophole Master said:

It's an interesting concept. I'd just get rid of the whole "when you dettach a hero it takes the place on an unused pass card". Dettaching a hero is a good strategy to surprise you enemy and gain an unexpected extra activation. Next round you'd lose that benefit, but it would be good to be able to have it just for the round where you dettach it.

I second this.



#33 SeismicShock

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:24 PM

I think some kind of Overwatch would go a long way to dealing with out-activation as a tactic, rather than resorting to army org charts, or whatever that wall of text was.



#34 Lska

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

Well the idea of having more units and benefiting from that is kind of basic mechanic of dust tactics.

I don't think that adding those blank cards is a relaiable and game mechanic wise idea. The problem is not the out-activation but using it as a lame-ass of a strategy.



#35 moffmalthus

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:17 AM

I don't fault anyone for using a high activation army in a tourney. If your there to win its the best and easiest way to stay competitive. I don't like the idea of needing specific army lists like 40k uses (1 HQ, 2 troop etc…) but simply put in multiple activations per turn to even things out. That would go a long way toward moving people away from having spotter/sniper heavy lists without over complicating the rules. The main thing that is great about Dust Tactics now is its simplicity and quickness of games. It allows you to focus more on gaining a tactical edge rather that needing to remember hundreds of pages of rules. If you look at almost every tourney winner over the last 2 years almost all of them are heavy on spotters and snipers. This needs to change as the whole tourney system will become bogged down with identical lists and make for a rather dull experience IMO…

 But again, this isn't the players fault for trying to win, the fault lies with the flawed rules.



#36 xBeakeRx

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:33 AM

I don't mind snipers, at least they serve a purpose. Spotters just for the sake of increasing your unit count is a different story.



#37 fhaugh

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

SeismicShock said:

I think some kind of Overwatch would go a long way to dealing with out-activation as a tactic, rather than resorting to army org charts, or whatever that wall of text was.

If you think that was a walll of text, do you think the rules for Overwatch would be any shorter?  Did you even bother to try to read any of it?



#38 Reorder

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:20 AM

Hello folks-

So I'm excited to hear of a new box set. What I'd like to see is a remold of Bazooka Joe and Sigrid heroes so new players who weren't able to get a coffin box set can get them. They're great heroes and I'm sure I read some where that Paolo was thinking of re-releasing them in a hero pack at one time. As far as new units go, that'd be cool - who doesn't like new - but I'd rather see them rework the stats of older units to make them more viable against some of the newer units. Another light walker from the revised core set for both Allies/Germans would be cool. I still use both of them when playing larger scenarios. In fact I'd really like it if they just released them as a $15 unit alone, same with the SSU Chinese Volunteers and the SSU airlift walker. Having to spend $35 to get another version of either of those units is just not in the average players budget. Other than that I'm tapped out on ideas of what will come in the box.

As far as breaking a hero off from a unit mid game to equal out activations per round, it works. I've been doing this the past few weeks with my SSU army and it helps alot especially if you've already whitled your opponent down some.

Overwatch rules are unnecessary as they have reactive fire rules. Reactive fire works alot just like an overwatch rule would, so I don't see a reason for having two sets of rules to cover something thats already in place.

And to sum up with rules on limiting players on the amount of unit types they're allowed to play, I can't get behind this. I love fielding 3 zombie units and can't wait for the two new Ubertoten squads to be released to flesh out an entire zombie army. And if you limit how many Observers that can get fielded then you have to limit all other unit types. That would only be fair.

Thanks

Reorder-



#39 Loophole Master

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:10 AM

Just to clarify, nobody involved with the game has mentioned anything about a new core set.



#40 golem101

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:40 AM

Loophole Master said:

Just to clarify, nobody involved with the game has mentioned anything about a new core set.

 

We can always hope. sonreir






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