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This game IS AFFORDABLE


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#41 mdc273

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

tibs3688 said:

@tibs3688 - I think you're looking at it from a top-tier level. Not every player plays at the top tier. My dad, for instance, enjoys just sitting around fishing in the game when he's bored. WoW has an incredibly deep single player experience as well as an incredibly deep and amazingly supported multi-player experience. The point I'm making is more to my last line @Kennon. AGoT seems to be targetting. . .

You're right; not everyone plays at the top level.  Those folks can indeed just buy a core set, a couple house expansions, and whatever random CPs suit their fancy and play their friends casually with random crappy decks.  I recall the main complaint against AGoT's affordability here being how much it costs to play at tournament level.  If playing with broken decks and going to tournaments doesn't suit you there's no reason the game needs to cost much at all.  Me and my friends started off having plenty of fun with just 1 core set; some of them lost interest soon after, others like myself wanted to go further, but we all had the same entry point.

Out of curiosity, what absurd deck are you referring to?

House of Dreams Tunnels of the Red Keep with Pentoshi Manors and Castellans. I'm not sure which is more unsatisfying to play against, that or GJ choke. Probably choke, but man was that HoD deck just unpleasant. He retired it because there was only one person in the meta willing to play against it (Targ Dragons apparently hard counters it pretty well).

Going back to affordability, the point I'm making is that this game is expensive at the most basic level to get into. It is cheaper to play almost any other game than this one due to the backlog of cards you might be forced to get. I'm not sure that the main complaint was against tournament level, but even if it were, that doesn't mean it's the only significant consideration in affordability. Barrier of entry is a consideration in affordability as well. And if going to tournaments doesn't suit me (pretty much everyone who plays competitively tries a tournament at some time, a pleasant tournament experience increases their interest in the game even if they lose every game) I would play board games. Also, what you just indicated costs $100 - $160. If they just wanted to play games at home they could've bought Chaos in the Old World, Power Grid, and Agricola for that price (going back to value/affordability) or Glory to Rome, Race for the Galaxy, and Dominion if they wanted more of a card game oriented game.

@Danigral - Foils are about increasing the appeal of buying the game. If people like foils, they might be more inclined to buy AGoT. If they like collectibility in their card games, now they can try to collect foils. They neither add nor take away from the playing of the game and require nothing more than figuring out how to print foil cards and put them in a box.

As for giving a deck that can win world's, it's about a game where losing is still fun. I've said this before, I rarely lose a game of Netrunner and feel like I couldn't have done something better. Sometimes the cards fall wrong, but most of the time I could've played better. This game I rarely felt that way. If this game shifts back towards that kind of feeling when the game ends, I bet its popularity will increase. The same with adding something superficial like foils. I'll bet you'll see an increase in popularity (or sales) if they were able to do it.

It's actually pretty funny seeing someone do a TL:DR for this. I don't even think I could come up with a legit one.



#42 CitizenKeen

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:38 AM

mdc273 said:

 

@Vaapad - Yea, I knew the $1k was absurd, but will it be if this game continues on for a few more years? You also split the boxes meaning that a single player getting into it might actually have to pay in the $500 - $600 range. Factors change everything, but someone who wants to play every house to some degree will need to pay a pretty hefty price. Also, while Magic players get less cards, more cards are inherently viable due to the color wheel. 2 color decks are common, three color decks are playable, though not as common. I'm not really sure how that factors into the value considerations.

 

 

I wanted to chime in here with some math. I think it is highly improbable that a competitive AGOT deck will ever cost more than $300. I'm not a competitive AGOT player, so it's possible I'm full of horse puckey.

Let's assume that you have to buy a chapter pack for every card - nothing's in the Core Set. Additionally, let's assume that every card you run comes from a different chapter pack - there are no chapter packs that offer you two cards you're interested in. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's happened yet.)

Finally, let's assume - and here is where some people might argue against my contention - that you're running 2 copies of any given card on average. Now, that means you'll have some cards in triplicate, and others (like plots) that you only need one of.

So you head over to coolstuffinc and pick up 33.5 unique cards x $10 a chapter pack = one $335 deck of cards, plus a few decks worth of other cards.

They can add all the cards they want, but at the end of the day, they're still limited by 67 cards in a deck and three copies of each. The limit of what a deck could cost is MSRP $1,000 - (67 cards, all solitaires, buying packs at MSRP $15 = $1,005).

 

And comparing the cost of buying "every house" of AGOT is akin to wanting to play "every color" of Magic - how much do 5 competitive magic decks cost?



#43 tibs3688

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:30 AM

Going back to affordability, the point I'm making is that this game is expensive at the most basic level to get into. It is cheaper to play almost any other game than this one due to the backlog of cards you might be forced to get. I'm not sure that the main complaint was against tournament level, but even if it were, that doesn't mean it's the only significant consideration in affordability. Barrier of entry is a consideration in affordability as well. And if going to tournaments doesn't suit me (pretty much everyone who plays competitively tries a tournament at some time, a pleasant tournament experience increases their interest in the game even if they lose every game) I would play board games. Also, what you just indicated costs $100 - $160. If they just wanted to play games at home they could've bought Chaos in the Old World, Power Grid, and Agricola for that price (going back to value/affordability) or Glory to Rome, Race for the Galaxy, and Dominion if they wanted more of a card game oriented game.

No, it's not expensive to get into at the most basic level.  A core set is thirty dollars at most.  My suggestions regarding core set + expansion + a few CPs was just that, a suggestion based on what I've observed from seeing a lot of newcomer threads asking for deck advice and detailing what cards they have.  If it costs $100+ and that is too rich for someone's blood they are obviously not required to spend that much, though in my experience most people who play any kind of card game, aGoT or otherwise, is quite willing to spend at *least* that much.



#44 asylumspadez

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:43 PM

It's an enjoyable game but it's a bit of a money pit. I bought the card game for 30 and the Five Kings starter set for 12, Enjoyable to play but I am the kind of guy that wants a solid amount of cards for variety, To spice things up a bit because playing with the same cards over and over again is boring. I do plan on buying the Iron Throne starter set that costs 15 (to even out Five Kings) as well as a chapter pack or two (about 12 dollars each) for the 4 houses to even things out but that's as much as I am going to spend on it. I am a bit annoyed with how pricy the deluxe expansions are, 30 dollars for 60 new cards!?!?!? Especially when they are similar cards to what are already in the main game, Bit of a rip off imo.



#45 imrahil327

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:03 PM

asylumspadez said:

It's an enjoyable game but it's a bit of a money pit. I bought the card game for 30 and the Five Kings starter set for 12, Enjoyable to play but I am the kind of guy that wants a solid amount of cards for variety, To spice things up a bit because playing with the same cards over and over again is boring. I do plan on buying the Iron Throne starter set that costs 15 (to even out Five Kings) as well as a chapter pack or two (about 12 dollars each) for the 4 houses to even things out but that's as much as I am going to spend on it. I am a bit annoyed with how pricy the deluxe expansions are, 30 dollars for 60 new cards!?!?!? Especially when they are similar cards to what are already in the main game, Bit of a rip off imo.

 

I hate to break it to you, but I think you bought some CCG cards (the Five Kings and Iron Throne starters).



#46 mdc273

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:05 AM

tibs3688 said:

No, it's not expensive to get into at the most basic level.  A core set is thirty dollars at most.  My suggestions regarding core set + expansion + a few CPs was just that, a suggestion based on what I've observed from seeing a lot of newcomer threads asking for deck advice and detailing what cards they have.  If it costs $100+ and that is too rich for someone's blood they are obviously not required to spend that much, though in my experience most people who play any kind of card game, AGoT or otherwise, is quite willing to spend at *least* that much.

I consider the most basic level inclusive of tourney play as I am of the opinion everyone will really want to do tourney play and will generally be turned off to the game if unsuccessful. While this clearly won't apply to everyone, there will be a significant number of people to whom it does apply and the majority of people that will actually help any meta grow would likely be included in that population.

You are correct that the true most basic level doesn't require it, but then why would anyone even buy AGoT other than the brand? It's not particularly well known as a board game (and it even has an actual AGoT board game).

As for those willing to spend $100+ on AGoT. If there were more appeal for this game, they would already be doing so. The value they get is not the same as whatever it is they are buying (usually Magic and/or Netrunner). That would already make a substantial argument against affordability for this game by itself. If the games were equally valuable, they would be buying AGoT. This might have gone past affordability at this point and onto value, but I will always believe value > affordability most of the time. There are people who would rather buy a para-sail than play this game. You can always argue this game is more afforable than a para-sail, but it won't change that person's mind.

Affordability will really only enter the equation when someone feels that there is value AND affordability. I would assume most people that currently play this game are on the side of this game being affordable and valuable. I obviously do not.



#47 BuzzsawMF

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 09:38 AM

You dont need to buy every single AGoT card in order to run a competitive deck. You can buy the expansions plus 2 cores and build solid decks. In my case, I have 2 cores and only 2 expansions and my decks still hold up in my meta.

 

I have played both AGoT and MtG and a large portion of my decision was not only the play and how fun but also that the MtG players were all smelly basement dwellers that spent ungodly amounts of money to build decks.



#48 KrakenStew32

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:04 AM

Not only does the word affordable come into play but also player support? how much help are new players getting in your area to make them want ot stay in the game?  At my local gaming store- a friend of mine from another card game I used to play (Vs.) wanted to get into GoT- I told him all about it- linked him to this site for the products- game demo videos, ect.  When he first got his core set- instead of using one of the many decks I had- we played a melee game with just his core set and thats it- this helped him get into the game and get the mechanics and all that fun stuff.  Now he has a lot of cards and also got his g/f and his roomate to play the game as well.  I got an extra 2 new players just from doing that alone!

Now I also used to play Magic on a constant basis- and the support where I live for the game is downright a crime- and a reason I do not play FNM anymore and only play casual with my friends on my own- during my time playing at my local game store on a Friday night- I can at least remember over 20 new people getting into the game and then quitting right away due to the "unsavory low-life" types that plague Magic- ripping new people off for cards- telling them to buy cards from sets that are going to rotate out in a month were standard practive there- also not helping new players made me too sick to continue playing Magic at all on a FNM level.

 

Also there is no Got card that goes for over 40 bucks that you need 4 of to win- I remember when I was playing Magic- the hot card to have was Jace the Mind Sculptor and he was over a 100 bucks……….for ONE card! asustado  Any players response there was -"you need to have 4 of these to do good here" Sorry I have bills and other things I like to do before I will ever do that., then I found out about LCGs- wadda know?  I can buy a couple of chapter packs for the cost of ONE Jace at the time!  And the cards never rotate out!



#49 mdc273

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:01 AM

Threadomancy!

The argument for affordability always seems to be that the distribution model is different. Yep, but itd oesn't make it cost less.

Affordable - believed to be within one's financial means

The term is obviously relative. For tier 1 competition, spending $300 - $500 for all the cards for a deck is going to be subjectively affordable. I am making the point that $300 - $500 is not outright affordable. It is an investment that many people will need to decide whether or not to make. If this game were obviously and outright affordable, no one would be considering whether or not to play it. I know multiple people who have stopped playing because it wasn't affordable for them in the grand scheme of things.






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