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Hate Ratlings?


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#41 Geary

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:56 AM

Seeing how most people's rub with Ratlings is that bad roleplayers play them very cliche and uninterestingly, then the solution is less 'kill the most annoying cliches' and more 'find a better group.'

I've played with a few bad groups before, generally tollerable outside of a single individual who actively did annoying and suicidal things while the DM wasn't experienced enough to adapt or kick them out before they wrecked the game. However, the group I've been playing with for the past year or so actually understands that, in pen and paper, the story they create comes first. There's no actions of, "I charge Kobold 4 and attack him with my bastard sword. Roll to hit," nor are there any character archetypes that are played straight or wildly subverted, which makes our games both interesting and free of special snowflakes.

In short, it might be more prudent to examine whether it's the race associated with a stereotype that you don't like, or the players who play that stereotype to a T that you dislike.



#42 Lord Steel

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:28 PM

Kasatka said:

Squats simply will not appear in the books as anything playable - they are no longer supported as existing by GW and FFG has to get everything it publishes approved by GW lawyer type guys. Subtle references to the imperial guard fielding abhuman regiments in the past might be mentioned but don't expect stats and expansive fluff.

Huh I heard they might be coming back in the next ed of the Table Top game (Would make sense since people still recall them foundly.) Anywho onto Ratlings, basically I am pretty cool with em as well as the Ogryn, they got there place in the game and have a few good hooks to em. Real problem is the Players, in my group we have a off an on again player who generally goes for Gnomes if that option is present. Now banning gnomes would not stop her for one simple reason….she knows the system and its break points, it does not matter what system it is she KNOWS IT BETTER THEN YOU. One of the many reasons we still let her play is that Despite being able to make the rules sit up, roll over, and beg, and despite generally being goofy and light hearted, she is a DAMN FINE role player, she places the groups fun ahead of her own, she is effective during play (if a little loopy in her thinking.) and, this is the important bit she made things FUN! So don't hate the charater race, hate the player.



#43 Mushkilla

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:30 PM

The ratling in our party, doesn't like sniping, he's from a feral world and is a skilful hunter. He ambushes orks with his bolas and great weapon and ironically is better at killing orks than anyone else in our party (think an uber ewok and you wouldn't be far off). He uses mantraps too, and on occasion disguises as a gretchin to infiltrate ork encampments. Using deceive to lure them into traps and ambushes. He also has an obsession with collecting the ears of every greenskin he kills. The first time he snared an ork with a mantrap, he dropped from a tree and decapitated it in one blow our party was amazed (snares make targets helpless, helpless targets are hit automatically and you roll damage twice and add it together so 4d10+ with a great weapon). He's been a real asset to the party with his perception and survival skills, as well as cunningly using deceive to get the upper hand. When your 3ft tall you never fight fair. He's about as grim dark as you can get.

So I really think it comes down to your group of players.



#44 Flail-Bot

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:20 AM

Mushkilla said:

 

 

(snares make targets helpless)

 

I just looked at the Snare rule and oh. my. glob. I want bolas. All the bolas.


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#45 Mushkilla

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

Flail-Bot said:

I just looked at the Snare rule and oh. my. glob. I want bolas. All the bolas.

Mantraps imobalise targets too, and has almost the same rule as snare word for word, with the exception that it mentions imobalised but not helpess, however the intent is clear considering that the mantrap rules are effectivelly snare(1). Bolas, and mantraps are what make the survival skill even more amazing than it already is. You can forage for food, wrangle animals, make shelter, track pray, and make low tech weapons and gear… So 1d5 hours to make a mantrap, another 1d5 hours to make a bolas, another 1d5 hours to make a great weapon and your a certified ork hunter.

The ratling in our squad likes to sneaks up on orks his axe in his left hand and his bolas in the right, throws the bolas point blank, snares the ork and then grips his axe in two hands (great weapon) and makes heads roll. Three foot of pure killing machine. :)



#46 Alekzanter

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

An excerpt from my House Rules for Only War:

"I despise Halflings and Hobbits. Same goes for Nelwin. Always have. To be clear, however, I have no problem with Dwarfism or Primordial Dwarfism. However, in 40K, Ratlings are just Hobbits in space, and I despise them, too. Call me a racist, but when it comes to this particular ab-Human my hackles come up.

First, the designation of "Ratling" is both their racial name and their Specialty; that is racist. Second, but more to the point, "Ratling" is now an affectionate Imperial Guard colloquialism that means "Squad-Dedicated Recon", or SDR.

Nobody will be calling anybody a "peck", and there will be no Master-Blaster.
All SDR are Human."

I can't say I'm entirely opposed to the idea of allowing someone to play a (legitimate) Ratling, but it is my game, and I much prefer to not.



#47 Santiago

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:56 PM

srMontresor said:

Braddoc said:

 

Plushy said:

 

Bagh. Here's hoping we get Squats and/or Beastmen.

 

 

 

Then we'll have people claiming Squats haul all the beard and facial hair in the Guard, and "why can't I have a weapon specialist with a manawesome beard too?"

 

 

 

That all depends on whether the Squat's comrade gets a Groom Beard action.



Yeah…we'll call him Chuck Norris…

I never realy had a problem with Halflings though in OW I find them iffy.

Why all the Kender hate, they work in Dragonlance, I loved them though I did not allow more than one in the party. The most scary (and useful) character was the Afflicted Kender Warrior/Rogue. He was fun but pessimistic.

In our previous games it was usually the Necromancer that had the cooking skill, he made sure dinner never ran off…



#48 Adeptus-B

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

My two cents: I find the "Look at me- I'm playing the exact opposite of the stereotype!" playing style to be even more irritating that slavishly conforming to said stereotype…

And Beastmen? They haven't been in the Guard army lists since the first edition of the Tabletop game (before Chaos was added to the 40K universe). Where is this 'nostalgia' for a Guard troop type that existed for about five minutes coming from?


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#49 Armour

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:03 AM

Adeptus-B said:

And Beastmen? They haven't been in the Guard army lists since the first edition of the Tabletop game (before Chaos was added to the 40K universe). Where is this 'nostalgia' for a Guard troop type that existed for about five minutes coming from?

Do you really have to ask?  Because furries, that is why. :D

I don't think that they really ahve a place in the system, but beast-mutants could make for some really interesting NPCs.  I am actually thinking of using some myself, just to mess with my player's expectations.



#50 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

Nobody's forcing anybody to play a ratling as some fantasy stereotype. If I were going to play one, I'd do it as a stone-cold killer with dead eyes who's seen far too much death through his scope.



#51 Fresnel

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:18 AM

Well, I think we can all agree that sterotypes and over-the-top characters have absolutely no place in the WH40k setting…

We all play this setting for deep explorations of the human condition, our characters having complex inner worlds which we develop over the course of the campaign with complete psychological verisimilitude. Who here could have read any of Tolken's novels without throwing them away in disgust at the cardboard characters presented? No one of course.

The inappropriateness of Ratlings within the setting is self-evident.



#52 Cryhavok

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

Fresnel said:

Well, I think we can all agree that sterotypes and over-the-top characters have absolutely no place in the WH40k setting…

We all play this setting for deep explorations of the human condition, our characters having complex inner worlds which we develop over the course of the campaign with complete psychological verisimilitude. Who here could have read any of Tolken's novels without throwing them away in disgust at the cardboard characters presented? No one of course.

The inappropriateness of Ratlings within the setting is self-evident.

what is the penalty on the sarcasm check for this?

#53 Fresnel

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

Just don't roll 00…



#54 macd21

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

bogi_khaosa said:

Nobody's forcing anybody to play a ratling as some fantasy stereotype. If I were going to play one, I'd do it as a stone-cold killer with dead eyes who's seen far too much death through his scope.

 

The problem some people have is that when you play the above character as a human it's grim and serious, when you do so as a halfling it's kind of a joke. "Ha! Biggles Slungbottom is all PTSD 'n stuff, hilarious! Look, he's having a flashback to his unit being wiped out by daemonettes! LOL."



#55 Fresnel

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

Yet Tom Cruise is the 'biggest' action movie star in Hollywood. Crazy world…



#56 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:42 PM

macd21 said:

The problem some people have is that when you play the above character as a human it's grim and serious, when you do so as a halfling it's kind of a joke. "Ha! Biggles Slungbottom is all PTSD 'n stuff, hilarious! Look, he's having a flashback to his unit being wiped out by daemonettes! LOL."

Then Biggles puts  a bullet through your eyes and adds another notch to his kill list. ;)



#57 Doomedpaladin

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:41 AM

The thing everyone seems to miss with non-human chaaracters is the roles they were intended to fill in the stories and games they feature in. Ogryn are the simpletons of whatever group they're in. They are written as flesh-and-blood tanks that are given comrades soley so they don't kill their own squads. They almost exemplify the guard itself, huge, powerfull, and by being stupid stay extremely loyal. Players could easily play one as uniquely insightfull Forrest Gump-style, or the literally-minded Slingblade-style retard. Also, thanks to how skills are set up in OW, dumb doesn't mean unskilled. 

Halflings and Kender were both used in place of children and that level of innocence. They are meant to give contrast to the worlds around them and maybe remind readers/players a little of what they're fighting for. Tasslehoff and the Hobbits all grew up by the end of their journeys and could never really go home again. Warhammer makes this role problematic. The value set, in-universe, is different. Ignorance is a virtue, hate is a good thing, fear is encouraged. These are not the things people like to see associated with children and with good reason. GW keeps away from child abuse by treating Ratlings as a "joke" race, but a more fitting move might have been to describe them like Afflicted Kender, which are really just war-zone children (innocent, but morbid and violent because they don't know any other way), giving them a more nihilistic vibe than slacker-style. I don't blame FFG for sticking with the source material, but is does seem a little lazy to just copy them straight over. 

Dwarves are the sad derivatives of Tolkien's creations in D&D. In Tolkien they're hairy, hearty and short because they live in caves in mountains that are all rock and ice. They forge because metal and rock are their most plentiful resource and they're greedy and insular because their race is in decline. The Hobbit is really just a last grasp at faded glory for them. D&D just took the outline and ran it into the ground. WHF breathed new life into them IMHO, gave them an edge with their grudges and hatred. Which is why it honestly surprises and dissappoints me to see them turned into goofy biker-caricatures in the tabletop and the pathetic Rogue Trader from the Ravenor books. Bring back the hate, hardness and long memories and I think they could fit in very well in any FFG 40K games. 

The main problem with Abhumans, in OW anyhow, is that they've been mis-placed. The ab-humans should have been a Pre-made Regiment or Regimental World option, not classes. Using race-as-class is something from Ollld school rpg design that is generally considered a mistake nowdays, and doing that here puts them too much in the spotlight. Theres nothing that says a regiment must be all from one world and as a game progresses it'd make sense that the squad might get a little mixed, a Storm Trooper from a Schola world, a Priest from a Penitent one. Just refresh comrades from the core regiment's world and mention that elite troopers from other worlds sometimes get added to select squads, like the PC's.

Abhuman worlds could have had similar traits as the Penal Colony world to reflect the empire's negative views regarding them and the talents that were a part of the classes turned into race/world specific talents (regimental world based talents btw, hint, hint). Then you could have had snipers and heavy gunners that would more realisticly appear in a regimental tithe, coming from the same world. You wouldn't even have to restrict classes from them, just penalize starting characteristic modifires, starting aptitudes and the xp cost for playing a Commissar Ogryn would discourage all but the most determined player from even trying. The book is already out though, so maybe in an alternate rules book, web supplement or a future edition if they like the idea. 

I'm totally writing up a Dwarf Regimental World now, with special bonuses against anyone calling them "squats".



#58 seanie4199

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:23 AM

Well just got hold of HotE and seen they seem to have gotten past ratlings role by given people sharpshooter. Disappointing a bit really

#59 Tom Cruise

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:18 AM

I find it hilarious that some people find Halflings too silly and fantasy inspired to suit 40k, but Orks are totally fair game.



#60 Robomummy

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:31 PM

Its not that ratlings are too silly its that they dont really fit into the game in my opinion. Ratlings and ogryns are very stange in a group of xenophobic humans and while they might have human origins they will still be regarded with suspicion and distrust amongst humans. I would prefer if the players in my group played humans with similar roles (sentry or brawler for ogryn and sharpshooter or weapon specialist for ratlings). I never liked either of these abhuman races as they just dont seem to fit in with the imperial guard. THe only exceptions I will make is if they were playing a squad of abhumans or if they played ogryns with catachans as there are ogryns on catachan. 


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