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Alchemist infinite gold in city


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#21 Triakor

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:20 AM

Just to specify. The craft value is the value printed on the character card?



#22 Tiggurix

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:28 AM

Yes, it is. Note that you would also lose the Warhorse from losing a life in a psychic combat, in which you get no bonus from it, so I agree that it is far from broken.



#23 Triakor

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:35 AM

I'll try to talk my group into bringing the warhorse back into the fold for another try



#24 Foreshadow

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:52 PM

Potions are trinkets, and the Alchemist cannot sell them for 3 gold each. Objects are 1 gp and magic objects 3 gp as we are limited in how many we can have at one time. The term 'potion' on the alchemist is not the same as the potion introduced in the City where a new class of cards: the Potion which anyone can buy was introduced. The term on the alchemist probably should be a different term since it merely is an alchemical compound that lets him do what it states: object a fate, life, or spell, and he convert object/magic objects into gold. Trinkets are objects, not treated like Objects, and are magical but are not Magical Objects. Its a confusion of terminology that does need to be clarified.

 

In other words, the potions would be sold back by the alchemist like Objects, for 1 gp each the same cost it costs to buy them. The 'ability' is that he can exchange them back and 'sell' them to reobtain gold for them which normally characters can't do so its a real ability, yet he can't buy for 1 gp and sell for 3 gp. The Alchemists needs a simple tweek: Object or trinket for 1 gp and Magic Object for 3 gp, then its clear and understandable since the terms for 'potion' were altered in what they mean between the highland and city.

 

The best solution would be just to update the Alchemist and release him so we can either print him or include him as a bonus in the next small expansion. OR just clarify officially in the FAQ but after reading the rules, Trinkets, due to the fact they aren't limited like real Objects (ie you can have more than 4 without a mule or horse and cart or some other means to carry more) means they are more like pseudo objects or pseudo magical objects.

 

If you want to say otherwise, then limit Potions LIKE objects and magical objects, meaning you may have up to 4 maximum on you character unless you find some means to carry more stuff. This way your limited in how many potions you can have and that restriction could potentially matter, and be a real limit. Next, since potions are only bought at 1 gp each, then you can treat them like Objects and thus the alchemist can trade them in for 1 gp.

 

that is a quick simple clarification and fix. I know for a fact the designers would not want a situation where they created a character that can buy trinket potions at the apothecary for 1 gp each and then resell via their ability for 3 gp. Of course, that is OP because it is total BS and a complete misunderstanding of the rules, or rather the rules are fuzzy and need clarification.

 

Personally, the Alchemist should have a maximum value of 3 Life, and start with 4 Gold (maybe the 5 starting as stated, and I wrote it so that he can replenish 1 fate or heal 1 life for 1 gp (up to starting value), and can buy a spell for 2 gp. That also would help balance him since right now you can buy a spell on the City for 2 gp each and heal life/fate for 1 gp each. Essentially what his ability is to obtain these without the need to go to the city or some other space. He could be the in middle of the Dungeon and do it. Thus a slight lowering of the Life down 1 and Gold down 1 is appropriate as it limits him a bit but still he can be a beast. I'd like to see that as a 'revised Alchemist' if they do. With 4 gold he can buy 2 spells to start with, but gives up the option to 'buy' back a life or fate if he truly needs it so its a tactical choice. Its best to wait till he gets another gold possibly.

 

The fact is, the Alchemist can obtain these wherever he is, whereas the merchant and other type of characters must go to the City to do things like buy a spell.


Edited by Foreshadow, 09 July 2013 - 08:03 PM.


#25 Croonos

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:30 AM

I have sent 3 times a question to FFG regarding Alchemist OP problem but not received any answer for months. I hope they officially clarify this soon because some people are demotivated to play if Alchemist wins all the time...



#26 Tiggurix

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 04:05 PM

Potions are trinkets, and the Alchemist cannot sell them for 3 gold each. Objects are 1 gp and magic objects 3 gp as we are limited in how many we can have at one time. The term 'potion' on the alchemist is not the same as the potion introduced in the City where a new class of cards: the Potion which anyone can buy was introduced. The term on the alchemist probably should be a different term since it merely is an alchemical compound that lets him do what it states: object a fate, life, or spell, and he convert object/magic objects into gold. Trinkets are objects, not treated like Objects, and are magical but are not Magical Objects. Its a confusion of terminology that does need to be clarified.

 

In other words, the potions would be sold back by the alchemist like Objects, for 1 gp each the same cost it costs to buy them. The 'ability' is that he can exchange them back and 'sell' them to reobtain gold for them which normally characters can't do so its a real ability, yet he can't buy for 1 gp and sell for 3 gp. The Alchemists needs a simple tweek: Object or trinket for 1 gp and Magic Object for 3 gp, then its clear and understandable since the terms for 'potion' were altered in what they mean between the highland and city.

 

The best solution would be just to update the Alchemist and release him so we can either print him or include him as a bonus in the next small expansion. OR just clarify officially in the FAQ but after reading the rules, Trinkets, due to the fact they aren't limited like real Objects (ie you can have more than 4 without a mule or horse and cart or some other means to carry more) means they are more like pseudo objects or pseudo magical objects.

 

If you want to say otherwise, then limit Potions LIKE objects and magical objects, meaning you may have up to 4 maximum on you character unless you find some means to carry more stuff. This way your limited in how many potions you can have and that restriction could potentially matter, and be a real limit. Next, since potions are only bought at 1 gp each, then you can treat them like Objects and thus the alchemist can trade them in for 1 gp.

 

that is a quick simple clarification and fix. I know for a fact the designers would not want a situation where they created a character that can buy trinket potions at the apothecary for 1 gp each and then resell via their ability for 3 gp. Of course, that is OP because it is total BS and a complete misunderstanding of the rules, or rather the rules are fuzzy and need clarification.

Don't be confused by the Alchemist card's use of the word "potions" in regards to his ability to alchemise. It's just a conversion from Gold to Life/Fate/Spell. Also, the rules definitely are NOT fuzzy on this point. Trinkets absolutely fully count as Objects. Seeing as they've got the typeline and everything, I thought that would be obvious. The term "Trinket" is just an extra type for the Object that defines how it works, just like the terms "Weapon" and "Armour". Now, you may not agree on how the rules should be on this point, but that is another matter.

 

As to the problem at hand, the best solution I can think of at the moment to limit this exploit while at the same time not uneccessarily gimping the Alchemist would be to limit him to alchemise Objects to Gold once per turn. That way, his influx of Gold would be much slower, and he may not actually have the money to buy ALL the Warhorses when he arrives at the Stables.


Edited by Tiggurix, 14 August 2013 - 04:44 PM.





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