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Wedge, Deadeye, and Proton Torpedoes?


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#21 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:06 AM

Duraham said:

Vorpal Sword said:

 

CPTMcMurphy said:

 

I understand that is nice to have a all purpose focus that you could use for anything.  Especial nice when you can use it as a focus if you roll a lot of focus or a target lock when needed for a missile or proton torpedo.  As for your oppenient knowing which ship you will be shooting at, it makes little difference since a decent oppenent is going to play defensive if he thinks he is in your fire arc.

 

You don't see an advantage in forcing your opponent's entire side to play defensively, as opposed to only the ship you're going to be shooting at?

 

because with the exception of assault missiles, the other missiles are more of a meh, if it hits ok, if it doesnt well im not surprised either. more than half the time, a normal primary weapon attack with target lock or focus is already comparable or way better than just the missile alone without any setup, and deadeye doesnt help with the setup at all since focus tokens only stay with you until the end of the turn, and you will need to target lock him anyway.

I agree with you, and have written about the use and mis-use of missiles and torpedoes fairly extensively. But Homing Missiles change the equation, since they go out with no setup.

In fact I'll go further than Cid: I think if you have Homing Missiles on a low-skill pilot (i.e., the Green Squadron Pilot) and you can give them Deadeye, you're making a mistake if you don't. With any other combo--like Wedge in the thread title--it's definitely more of a "better than Determination" sort of upgrade, but on those pilots with that missile I think it's the best point you could spend by a long shot. No pun intended.



#22 Picasso

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:12 AM

It's not about Dead Eye. It's about the requirements to fire a torp or a missile. You need a target lock.  Now pilots with a high number skill have a great chance of doing this. However a Green squadron with a pilot skill of three might struggle with this because when he first moves there is the potential for him to move and have no one to target lock.  Dead eye removes that by needing a focus not a target lock.  So unless you believe that missiles are completely useless and you don't need them, the case for dead eye IS the green squad a-wing. Is it a must? NO.  Does it help. YES.  Would I rather have PTL and use the A-wings amazing maneuverability to line up the shot later?  YES! 

All I'm saying is the card is valid. 



#23 Duraham

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:47 AM

if you are playing the standard Imperials vs Rebels, because Rebels have a lower agility value in general, your 2 attack dice is still rather effective, than compared against the higher agility value that imperial ships have. Hence, the missiles tend to benefit the Awing more than the TIEadv.

 

anyway, if you are running Dutch Vander or Lando or SquadLeader in your team, all the more i feel you do not really need deadeye, since all the arguments for deadeye is already covered by these 3 stuff. And arguments about the targetlock vs focus tend to boil down to having a higher PS, and if that is the case, veteran instincts might be more applicable since it sticks with you the entire time, and not just for that disposable missile salvo



#24 Parakitor

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:45 AM

Just thought I'd throw in my thoughts.

First, I think Deadeye has a place, though as Duraham just mentioned there are other ways around the "I can't get a lock on my target, yet" problem. I'd also agree that Green Squadron A-wings seem to be made for this card (imagine that; they come in the same expansion pack!).

One neat way to use Deadeye is with Garven Dreis. Your Green Squadron Pilot moves forward and takes evade, then Garven moves right up behind him and performs a Focus action. After Garven's shot he passes his Focus token to the Green Squadron Pilot who then unleashes with his missile. I know you've probably all thought of that, but I didn't see it written down yet.


"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#25 Cid_MCDP

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:35 AM


Duraham said:


if you are playing the standard Imperials vs Rebels, because Rebels have a lower agility value in general, your 2 attack dice is still rather effective, than compared against the higher agility value that imperial ships have. Hence, the missiles tend to benefit the Awing more than the TIEadv.[/quote]


Oh, I see. That's more a comment in regard to missles versus primary weapons though than Deadeye in particular though, isn't it? 


 


[quote]anyway, if you are running Dutch Vander or Lando or SquadLeader in your team, all the more i feel you do not really need deadeye, since all the arguments for deadeye is already covered by these 3 stuff. And arguments about the targetlock vs focus tend to boil down to having a higher PS, and if that is the case, veteran instincts might be more applicable since it sticks with you the entire time, and not just for that disposable missile salvo



Wellll, kinda. I think Deadeye still does afford you some flexibility even in those situations. The Lando thing in my mind actually makes it even better as you could do a 2nd Focus for your Free Action. 


Again, I'm not 100% in love with Deadeye as an auto-include, take-it-or-lose kind of upgrade, and I hope all this isn't coming off that way, I'm just saying that there are some situations where it'd be a nice option to have available, especially on a low PR pilot, and as it only costs a point and triggers from a Focus, you're not really giving up much to get it. Like Picasso said, it's more about overcoming the requirement of firing the missile and the incurred repurcussions from the moving and firing sequences than anything else. 


If you think missiles are by and large, pointless in their application or not worth their points, then Deadeye isn't likely to convert you into a believer. However, if you do use them and find yourself limited at times by acquiring the TL and still having the target in your arc when it's time to fire the missiles/ torps, then Deadeye probably is worth your while as an upgrade. 


 



#26 Picasso

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:26 AM

I'm not trashing on VI but it only gets you to a five Skill on that Green squad A-wing.  My current TIE build doesn't have a pilot under a six because of VI.  I know in this game there is a situation for every list.  Also this debate comes down to the kind of list you would like to play.  I love missiles. I can do a ton of damage with two of them. I can for sure drop a ship.  I am also going to look at and try out every card I can to make that missile as destructive as I can. 

Is dead eye a great card?  NO

is it a dead card?  No

is it situational?  YEs

have I had success with it?  Ask the guy I smoked without loosing a ship Friday night.  Better yet, ask the two squint pilots that each took a homing missile to the cockpit for vaporization!  

 






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