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#41 LethalDose

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:50 AM

Donovan Morningfire said:

Rimmer1 said:

 

I wanted it to be a role playing game, not a glorified quick start.

 

 

Sadly, that frame of mind seems to have died out with the Basic D&D Red Box.

I don't know how accurate this is.  If you mean the 1983 D&D Red Box that had a full rule set, I think FFG's Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Core Game product is very similar being a complete RPG straight out of the box.  It was published in late 2009, and has a $100 MSRP (about $45 in 1983 according to this inflation calculator)

And if you mean the 2010 D&D Red Box, then yes. Beginner's Box is quite similar to that one, and so the format hasn't really died out.

It would be nice to see more of the "Complete Box Products" though, so long as the game is still made accessible for less money to people who don't want or need all the bits and pieces.

-WJL



#42 Rimmer1

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:58 AM

Sturn said:

Post #1 morning of January 19th:

Rimmer1 said:

 

Hello, Can someone help with this simple, and possibly stupid question please.

What is the difference between the Begineers Box set and the New Core Book, and which one should I get?

 

 

Post #3 evening of Januray 19th:

Rimmer1 said:

 

The insinuation being that the Beginner Box set is a glorified "Quick Starter" of sorts? and I will only have the complete game if I wait for the "Core" book and get a set of custom dice as a seperate purchase?

 

 

Note Rimmer says, "I WILL only have the complete game IF I wait for the "Core" book". At 21:18 hours he appears to still not have purchased the game, but I suppose he could have meant something else.

Post #7 Still Jaunuary 19th at 22:48 hours (1 hour and a half later):

aljovin said:

 

You're correct, only pregen PC, no character creation in the Beginner Game. Also, the talent Trees used, are a mixed of the specialisation, so there is some small update to make to a "standard" character.

 

 

Post #8 January 19th at 22:56 hours:

Rimmer1 said:

 

Well, thats somewhat disapointing, if I had known that I would have not ordered it from my FLGS.

I guess glorified Quick Starter is a very apt discription.

 

 

So, you asked questions about the difference in the games, got responses within the same date telling you there was no character generation.  Then you supposedly ordered it sometime within the same day, but are still pissed there is no character generation?? Did you not read the responses you asked for and got quickly? Or did you ask for details then run out and order it without waiting to see the responses the exact same day? Either it's your own fault for not waiting a few hours (at most) to see the answers to your own questions or you are being dishonest about when/if you actually ordered it. If, contrary to what your posts suggest, you had already ordered it without bothering to read FFG statements of what you would be getting, then that's just your own fault.

 

If you had bothered to read my posts, and not simply cherry pick my comments in some obtuse way in order to make me look bad, you would have realised the following.

1. Ordered Box

2. Went online afterwards and realised new "Core" book was coming

3. Original post asking for clarification.

4. Clarification

5. Had already ordered book from FLGS, so completed the purchase as agreed.

 

Jesus. These boards are sounding like 4Chan.


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#43 Rimmer1

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:02 AM

mouthymerc said:

I imagine if he found the forums, he is able to have found the articles on the Beginner Box. That being said, he could also type Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Box reviews into Google and got information that way too. Or maybe he just needed clarity because he found those avenues weren't informative enough.

 

Actually, I found out about a new Star Wars RPG, geeked out a bit, sent a quick email to my FLGS, and only then started doing some reasearch.

 

As I said, Caveat Emptor

 

Or if you know the latin for "Buyer do more reasearch" I'll use that instead.


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#44 Rimmer1

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:05 AM

Necrotic said:

And the point of my post that you ignored in favour of your "Caveat Emptor" statement is that the parts found in the box are useful.

 

(Though my formating sucked due to posting via mobile at the time)

 

I for one see a lot of future usage if I can get a group together having been out of the RPG side of things since D&D 4th ed launched which pretty much killed our group way back then. Looking forward to getting things back up and running.

 

The core book, at 440+ pages will be a nice addition to the beginners set, as will an extra set of dice or two

 

The only parts I will use in future, or ever, are the Dice, YT-1300 Map and possibly the box. Everything else will never again see the light of day.


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#45 Sturn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:35 AM

Rimmer1 said:

 

If you had bothered to read my posts, and not simply cherry pick my comments in some obtuse way in order to make me look bad, you would have realised the following.

1. Ordered Box

2. Went online afterwards and realised new "Core" book was coming

3. Original post asking for clarification.

4. Clarification

5. Had already ordered book from FLGS, so completed the purchase as agreed.

 

Jesus. These boards are sounding like 4Chan.

 

 

So the reason for your problem was………

Sturn said:

 

……..you had already ordered it without bothering to read FFG statements of what you would be getting, then that's just your own fault.

 

 

Not FFG's fault. It appears you created your own problem then wished to blame the faultless game company for it when whining on their forum. 

Are you going to purchase a Can-Am Spyder next week without researching what it is then go to their website and complain that it is missing a 4th wheel?



#46 mouthymerc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:44 AM

Yes I think "buyer do more research" is definitely more apt. Had you done even a little you could have avoided this. Ah well, live and learn eh?

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#47 Necrotic

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

Caveat Emptor is accurate…

 

DEFINITION: The principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.

 

Typically it is used in relation to used goods and goods were there is a chance that they are misrepresented in some way that is not covered by law.

In thiscase, failing to RESEARCH falls under Caveat Emptor.

ie. Buyer screwed up.

 

 

Rimmer1, the reason why some are "hounding" you over it is that some of your statements appear to be placing the blame on FFG, distancing yourself from you simply screwing up and this in turn is resulting in you making snappish comments that is just fanning the fire, especially in regards to the use of Caveat Emptor due to its use in regards to such things as dealing with dodgy used car salesmen which creates a preconception as to how you intended to use it even if such use was innaccurate.

 

To then follow up with comparing people responding to your posts with individuals from 4chan, you again do exactly as you did with the use of Caveat Emptor, except in this case you are also ensuring people know you mean it in a negative light. I myself have never visited 4chan and so have no personal experience with 4chan, but I have an understanding on what such a comment means based on others views of 4chan.

 

Again, it comes across as you distancing yourself from any responsibility by laying blame on those posting in response…which is also a logical fallacy.

 

We all agree (including yourself) that you stuffed up.

 

In turn, respondents have made assumptions of your meaning that now appear innacurate, but some of that is on you due to how you responded. No harm, no foul. We all stuff up at times, it happens.

 

However, leveling insults (unless aimed at oneself to acknowledge your an idiot so even the blind amongst us understand you realise you screwed up on whatever), even though you feel them justified, does little to assist and is best avoided as it just makes things difficult at best or increases the problem at worse (as it then simple comes across as you being a troll)

 

After all, the cherry picked comments you got annoyed at had a clarrification included stating that the respondent may have misread your intent due to simple miss-wording on your part.

 

 

Take a deep breath, clear those lungs and dont worry about it.

 

 



#48 Rimmer1

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

Sturn said:

Rimmer1 said:

 

If you had bothered to read my posts, and not simply cherry pick my comments in some obtuse way in order to make me look bad, you would have realised the following.

1. Ordered Box

2. Went online afterwards and realised new "Core" book was coming

3. Original post asking for clarification.

4. Clarification

5. Had already ordered book from FLGS, so completed the purchase as agreed.

 

Jesus. These boards are sounding like 4Chan.

 

 

So the reason for your problem was………

Sturn said:

 

……..you had already ordered it without bothering to read FFG statements of what you would be getting, then that's just your own fault.

 

 

Not FFG's fault. It appears you created your own problem then wished to blame the faultless game company for it when whining on their forum. 

Are you going to purchase a Can-Am Spyder next week without researching what it is then go to their website and complain that it is missing a 4th wheel?

 

Actually, I did do some reasearch, C&P from FFG website, re SWEotE Box. (Bolding Mine)

 

Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game



Gather your friends and prepare for adventure in the Star Wars galaxy! Whether you’re new to roleplaying games or just new to Edge of the Empire™, the Beginner Game is the perfect starting point.

The Star Wars®: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game features a complete, learn-as-you-go adventure. Pre-generated character folios keep rules right at the your fingertips, while custom dice and an exciting narrative gameplay system make every roll into a story. Detailed rules provide for hours of entertainment as you create your own adventures and tell your own tales of a galaxy far, far away!

The Star Wars®: Edge of the Empire™ Beginner Game is a complete standalone experience for 3-5 novice roleplayers. It includes:
1 32-page Adventure Book, 1 48-page Rulebook, and 1 Introduction Sheet
4 Full-Color Character Folios
1 Full-Color Double-Sided Foldout Map
14 Custom Dice
8 Destiny Tokens, 35 Character Tokens, and 5 Vehicle Tokens

 

It was only when further investigation, and only when I went to the Core book that I realised the lack of certain aspects (Chargen)

 

Now as to your comments and seemingly uninitiated dislike of me, did I at some stage sleep with your wife?


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#49 Sturn

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:29 AM

Rimmer1 said:

Actually, I did do some reasearch, C&P from FFG website, re SWEotE Box. (Bolding Mine)

Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game

Gather your friends and prepare for adventure in the Star Wars galaxy! Whether you’re new to roleplaying games or just new to Edge of the Empire™, the Beginner Game is the perfect starting point.

The Star Wars®: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game features a complete, learn-as-you-go adventure. Pre-generated character folios keep rules right at the your fingertips, while custom dice and an exciting narrative gameplay system make every roll into a story. Detailed rules provide for hours of entertainment as you create your own adventures and tell your own tales of a galaxy far, far away!

The Star Wars®: Edge of the Empire™ Beginner Game is a complete standalone experience for 3-5 novice roleplayers. It includes:
1 32-page Adventure Book, 1 48-page Rulebook, and 1 Introduction Sheet
4 Full-Color Character Folios
1 Full-Color Double-Sided Foldout Map
14 Custom Dice
8 Destiny Tokens, 35 Character Tokens, and 5 Vehicle Tokens

It was only when further investigation, and only when I went to the Core book that I realised the lack of certain aspects (Chargen)

Now as to your comments and seemingly uninitiated dislike of me, did I at some stage sleep with your wife?

It DOES have a complete adventure. That has nothing to do whether it has character generation or not.

It IS a complete standalone experience. That, again, has nothing to do whether it has character generation or not.

I could bold the same comments then state they are in support of it having a map of the Star Wars Galaxy and it would make as much sense.

Clicking the big "Description" tab above what you pasted gets you more details such as:

While the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game can be enjoyed by players of any skill level, it presents a simplified and abridged version of the full Edge of the Empire rules intended for novice roleplayers. For example, compared to the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook, the Beginner Game’s rulebook lacks a section on character creation. It also contains fewer talents and other character development options, as well as fewer setting descriptions. In short, it is designed to be ideal for players new to roleplaying games.

Rimmer1 said:

Now as to your comments and seemingly uninitiated dislike of me, did I at some stage sleep with your wife?

Now you are just being silly. My comments were not some crude slap at you (really, a wife joke? how about my daddy can beat up your daddy?). My comments were trying to defend the publisher since they did not do anything wrong at all but you were saying they did. Dislike of you? No I've never actually met you. My dislike is of even when shown evidence you still were sticking to your guns like, "No it's their fault not mine why won't you all not agree with me!".

Since this has gotten overly silly, I will stop responding to your posts. I think I've made my point more then once.



#50 Rimmer1

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:48 AM

Sturn said:

Rimmer1 said:

 

Actually, I did do some reasearch, C&P from FFG website, re SWEotE Box. (Bolding Mine)

Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game

Gather your friends and prepare for adventure in the Star Wars galaxy! Whether you’re new to roleplaying games or just new to Edge of the Empire™, the Beginner Game is the perfect starting point.

The Star Wars®: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game features a complete, learn-as-you-go adventure. Pre-generated character folios keep rules right at the your fingertips, while custom dice and an exciting narrative gameplay system make every roll into a story. Detailed rules provide for hours of entertainment as you create your own adventures and tell your own tales of a galaxy far, far away!

The Star Wars®: Edge of the Empire™ Beginner Game is a complete standalone experience for 3-5 novice roleplayers. It includes:
1 32-page Adventure Book, 1 48-page Rulebook, and 1 Introduction Sheet
4 Full-Color Character Folios
1 Full-Color Double-Sided Foldout Map
14 Custom Dice
8 Destiny Tokens, 35 Character Tokens, and 5 Vehicle Tokens

It was only when further investigation, and only when I went to the Core book that I realised the lack of certain aspects (Chargen)

Now as to your comments and seemingly uninitiated dislike of me, did I at some stage sleep with your wife?

 

 

It DOES have a complete adventure. That has nothing to do whether it has character generation or not.

It IS a complete standalone experience. That, again, has nothing to do whether it has character generation or not.

I could bold the same comments then state they are in support of it having a map of the Star Wars Galaxy and it would make as much sense.

Clicking the big "Description" tab above what you pasted gets you more details such as:

While the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game can be enjoyed by players of any skill level, it presents a simplified and abridged version of the full Edge of the Empire rules intended for novice roleplayers. For example, compared to the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook, the Beginner Game’s rulebook lacks a section on character creation. It also contains fewer talents and other character development options, as well as fewer setting descriptions. In short, it is designed to be ideal for players new to roleplaying games.

Rimmer1 said:

 

Now as to your comments and seemingly uninitiated dislike of me, did I at some stage sleep with your wife?

 

 

Now you are just being silly. My comments were not some crude slap at you (really, a wife joke? how about my daddy can beat up your daddy?). My comments were trying to defend the publisher since they did not do anything wrong at all but you were saying they did. Dislike of you? No I've never actually met you. My dislike is of even when shown evidence you still were sticking to your guns like, "No it's their fault not mine why won't you all not agree with me!".

Since this has gotten overly silly, I will stop responding to your posts. I think I've made my point more then once.

 

A Box, that advertises itself as being a complete role plying game, can be expected prima facie to have certain aspects, chargen would be one of them.

Now a to my seemng whining about some cruel evil company that has just stolen my money, please point me to a single post where I do this, I have always throughout this thread admitted that it was me who did not fully realise what I was buying untill to late, all I have ever done and or said, was that I was disapointed by my purchase.

As to your supposed points, you went ahead and though someone was "dissing" [SP] your favourite RPG company and went all nerd rage, acting indignant and all high and mighty, defending your game from any critisism, when it didn't need defending at all as it wasent being attacked.

1. I brought the box set, I am disapointed with it, as a customer, this is my right

2. Whos fault is this, well nobodies really, "You can't please everyone" not everybody will like it but if some sort of blame is to be assignd then I guess the dragons share will be to me for incomplete reasearch.

Now stop acting all precious when someone even suggestes something remotly not good with your little game, your acting like a Palladium fanboy.


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#51 I. J. Thompson

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:56 AM

It's all been pretty much covered, but I'd just like to add:

You should have just not bought it when it came in. It's not like your FLGS had to bend over backwards and call in favours to bring the Beginner Game to you - they probably got a crate of 'em. It's not hard to say, "oops, sorry guys, this product isn't what I thought it was going to be, and I don't want it anymore. Sorry about that." The store employees surely wouldn't have batted an eye, as they could easily sell the copy to somebody else.

I think you, as you say, 'geeked out', and just had to get that box home and tear it open, even though you knew it wasn't what you wanted. And when you did, you felt foolish because it (wait for it…) wasn't what you wanted. These are just my impressions, of course - I don't know you or your thoughts. 

Anyway, it's yours now… maybe there's a little junior roleplayer in your life somewhere who could have fun with the set?


IV  V  VI  I  III  II


#52 Rimmer1

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:52 AM

I. J. Thompson said:

It's all been pretty much covered, but I'd just like to add:

You should have just not bought it when it came in. It's not like your FLGS had to bend over backwards and call in favours to bring the Beginner Game to you - they probably got a crate of 'em. It's not hard to say, "oops, sorry guys, this product isn't what I thought it was going to be, and I don't want it anymore. Sorry about that." The store employees surely wouldn't have batted an eye, as they could easily sell the copy to somebody else.

I think you, as you say, 'geeked out', and just had to get that box home and tear it open, even though you knew it wasn't what you wanted. And when you did, you felt foolish because it (wait for it…) wasn't what you wanted. These are just my impressions, of course - I don't know you or your thoughts. 

Anyway, it's yours now… maybe there's a little junior roleplayer in your life somewhere who could have fun with the set?

 

Esentially, yes, I could have cancelled the purchase, but I felt bad. My FLGS is very small and does  not stock this as a standard line, they went to the trouble of getting it in for me, and bearing in mind I live in New Zealand. But at the end of the day, I was the idiot who ordered it, I'm the idiot who will pay, thats just my own personal opinion, but as you said, it was only $50 bucks (NZ$)

The geeking out happened when I first learned of a new SW RPG, not so much when I actually got the box set.

Unfortunatly my little guy is only just turned four, so a little early, at least I will get some use out of it, the dice, YT-1300 map and box will come in handy so not totally wasted here, or at least not untill the core book comes out.

Already pre ordered, as is the GM Screen and dice pack.


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#53 mouthymerc

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:05 AM

Well I think you are among many of us who have bought the Beginner Box if only to somewhat ease our anticipation in waiting for the Core Rulebook, even if some of us have the Beta book. Having the actual book, with the actual art, and all the rules updates, et al is very exciting considering how much I am enjoying the game. If you are getting another die pack then you will have plenty of the dice too, as well as two more adventures (one in the Rulebook and one in the GM pack). It's just the wait. Ah well.


People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell


#54 Kallabecca

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:56 AM

Rimmer1 said:

A Box, that advertises itself as being a complete role plying game, can be expected prima facie to have certain aspects, chargen would be one of them.

Now a to my seemng whining about some cruel evil company that has just stolen my money, please point me to a single post where I do this, I have always throughout this thread admitted that it was me who did not fully realise what I was buying untill to late, all I have ever done and or said, was that I was disapointed by my purchase.

As to your supposed points, you went ahead and though someone was "dissing" [SP] your favourite RPG company and went all nerd rage, acting indignant and all high and mighty, defending your game from any critisism, when it didn't need defending at all as it wasent being attacked.

1. I brought the box set, I am disapointed with it, as a customer, this is my right

2. Whos fault is this, well nobodies really, "You can't please everyone" not everybody will like it but if some sort of blame is to be assignd then I guess the dragons share will be to me for incomplete reasearch.

Now stop acting all precious when someone even suggestes something remotly not good with your little game, your acting like a Palladium fanboy.

The parts you highlighed don't support your claim that FFG claimed it was a COMPLETE RPG. It is a COMPLETE Adventure (as Advertised) and a COMPLETE Standalone Experience as FFG claimed.

Neither of those sentences or any other part of the box text claims it is a COMPLETE RPG.



#55 Rimmer1

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

Kallabecca said:

Rimmer1 said:

 

A Box, that advertises itself as being a complete role plying game, can be expected prima facie to have certain aspects, chargen would be one of them.

Now a to my seemng whining about some cruel evil company that has just stolen my money, please point me to a single post where I do this, I have always throughout this thread admitted that it was me who did not fully realise what I was buying untill to late, all I have ever done and or said, was that I was disapointed by my purchase.

As to your supposed points, you went ahead and though someone was "dissing" [SP] your favourite RPG company and went all nerd rage, acting indignant and all high and mighty, defending your game from any critisism, when it didn't need defending at all as it wasent being attacked.

1. I brought the box set, I am disapointed with it, as a customer, this is my right

2. Whos fault is this, well nobodies really, "You can't please everyone" not everybody will like it but if some sort of blame is to be assignd then I guess the dragons share will be to me for incomplete reasearch.

Now stop acting all precious when someone even suggestes something remotly not good with your little game, your acting like a Palladium fanboy.

 

 

The parts you highlighed don't support your claim that FFG claimed it was a COMPLETE RPG. It is a COMPLETE Adventure (as Advertised) and a COMPLETE Standalone Experience as FFG claimed.

Neither of those sentences or any other part of the box text claims it is a COMPLETE RPG.

 

And yet again, I have never said FFG misled me in any way, obviously I took the word "COMPLETE" in an erronious way, please stop with the straw man arguments against statements I have not made.


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#56 Rimmer1

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:24 PM

mouthymerc said:

Well I think you are among many of us who have bought the Beginner Box if only to somewhat ease our anticipation in waiting for the Core Rulebook, even if some of us have the Beta book. Having the actual book, with the actual art, and all the rules updates, et al is very exciting considering how much I am enjoying the game. If you are getting another die pack then you will have plenty of the dice too, as well as two more adventures (one in the Rulebook and one in the GM pack). It's just the wait. Ah well.

 

The Waiting, the bane of any true role player, well that and TPK's


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?





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