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Begineers V Core


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#21 mouthymerc

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

I. J. Thompson said:

Rimmer1 said:

What I am annoyed about, is getting a Glorified Quick Starter, rather than an actual RPG,

 

You keep saying 'glorified quick-starter', but not going into any detail about what you want. Knowing that the product is a 'Beginner Game', released in advance of the 'Core Rulebook', what, specifically, did you want from the Beginner Game?

Honestly, I'm curious.

He wanted a complete roleplaying game.


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#22 oatesatm

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:53 PM

Rimmer1 said:

All that being said. As far as value for money goes, not bad at all, quite a number of things contained therin, and of a very high production value as well, consdiering the dice set alone will be $15 (IIRC) I am not totally unhappy with my purchase. BUt lets face it, when the "Core" book comes out, this box (dice exepted) will never again see the light of day.

 

You sound like a pretty avid and experienced gamer in the role-playing department … I don't know how large your circle of gamers is, and although the Beginner's Game will not likely make it to the table with them, it might be nice to have on hand when you either want to introduce new people into the hobby, or, somebody gets curious about it (for example, maybe someone who loves Star Wars but hasn't ever been into tabletop role playing games before).



#23 Kallabecca

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:49 AM

Rimmer1 said:

What I am annoyed about, is getting a Glorified Quick Starter, rather than an actual RPG, but hey. Caveat Emptor.

What were you expecting? I've never seen a "Beginners Box" or "Beginners Rules" that was anything else. WotC and Paizo were this way. GURPS, Shadowrun and Savage Worlds just put out free mini books for their Quickstarters. GURPS and Savage Worlds called them "Lite" versions of the rules. And what you got in the box is exactly as described outside of it.



#24 Voice

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:35 AM

But he won't say how what he got *isn't* a role playing game.



#25 mouthymerc

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:36 AM

He may be harkening back to the olden days ofthe D&D blue and red boxes. You could, in theory, play with just those if you wanted to.

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#26 Voice

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:57 AM

mouthymerc said:

He may be harkening back to the olden days ofthe D&D blue and red boxes. You could, in theory, play with just those if you wanted to.

To be fair, he *may* be harkening back to any number of things.  He just won't say, except that somehow the Beginner Game isn't an RPG, and he wanted one.  There's plenty of room to play for a good long while using just the Beginner Game rules.  It's not as fully fleshed out as the Beta rules were, but no beginner game set has ever claimed to be.

On the other hand, if he *is* harkening back to the D&D blue & red boxes, then he's complaining about the wrong thing, because those *weren't* 'Beginner Games', they were the full set of D&D rules as existed at the time (back when finding those 'funny dice' *outside* of the box sets was a job and a half).  I had a copy of several of the original D&D box sets (and still have a full set of the dice that came with one of them).  Sadly, they and the vast majority of my 1st & 2nd edition AD&D books were lost to water damage in our basement.  :(



#27 Sturn

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

The original red box Basic D&D set (which claimed to be a full RPG, not just a beginner set like EotE), was only good for 3 levels of play. Period. You had to purchase the Expert set to continue adventuring. The Expert set wasn't available for 4 years after the first Basic set was released. That being said, the Basic set was a huge success for D&D, introducing countless players to the game who later went on to play Advanced D&D (now referred to as D&D 1.0).

I've devoured the EotE Beginner set and think it is a perfect "Beginner" game, as it was meant to be. It introduces rules in stages. If EotE becomes a big success for FFG, it may be because of the quality of this set introducing the narrative style of play to many new players. Even though I own the Core beta book, I've read through the Beginner rule book and find it an easier read since it is so streamlined. I would suggest anyone who has not played FFG's Warhammer to start (dare I say "begin") with the Beginner set.


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#28 Rimmer1

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:34 PM

Voice said:

But he won't say how what he got *isn't* a role playing game.

 

I did mention it in the OP, but just for you. Lack of Character Generation. There are others but lets start here.


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Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#29 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:04 AM

My group went through the scenario in the Beginners Box last weekend. The GM told me it was a roleplaying game, and we trusted him. The "game" went well, and I thought we all had fun. But now it turns out that we weren't playing a roleplaying game at all. 

How could he lie to us like that? Why did he go to so much trouble to make us think we were roleplaying?

I shot a Stormtrooper! In the head. And then we all laughed … like it was a joke. Why did he make us do those things? WE THOUGHT WE WERE ROLEPLAYING!!! Oh my God! WHAT WERE WE DOING?!?! 

 

</scene>


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Listen to my actual play podcasts at BeggingForXP.com.

 

Take a look at my Talent Trees (Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion), YT-2400 deck plans for the Lazy Bantha, as well as my other handouts.


#30 KommissarK

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:08 AM

Rimmer1 said:

Voice said:

 

But he won't say how what he got *isn't* a role playing game.

 

 

 

I did mention it in the OP, but just for you. Lack of Character Generation. There are others but lets start here.

The problem is, in this system, having a "complete" set of rules for character creation (e.g. the ability to pursue any possible course as a character generated with the full rules), would essentially mean they package the full character progression system in the beginners box.

At chargen, a PC is given enough XP to "be dangerous" as far as how far they can go into a class. To provide the full set of options (e.g. "full" character creation), they're actually providing much of the advancement scheme for the careers.



#31 Sturn

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:24 AM

Oh so what he meant is that while it is an RPG, it's only the beginning of an RPG.

What was it that FFG was calling this boxed set?



#32 Necrotic

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:39 AM

A beginner's box set is an introduction to an RPG and will never include a comprehensive character creation. The purpose is to familiarize players with the game with an expectation of advancing from there. There are two ways for a beginner's box set to deal with characters…either as FFG has done, provide pre-generated characters so you get a feel for what sort of characters can be created and focus on basic rule familiarity to actually play, or provide a light set of rules so you can create any character within a very narrow confine. In either case, you will need to buy the more extensive rule set to advance your character with the big problem of facing the need to completely rebuild your character once you discover the other options available. …. As far as "I will never use the box set again" statement goes… 1. Dice are always going to be used. 2. The Maps (at least the starship) are likely to find multiple uses. 3. Pre-generated characters can be used as back-up characters, ongoing characters or (shock/horror) non player characters either as is or modified. 4. The counters…I myself am less likely to use these as I prefer other options, but for some, these seem reasonably handy. The only things left is the adventure due to the lead by the nose aspect though may be useful for some cannibalization perhaps…and the basic rulebook. Both of which can be used to bring new gamers on board with. All told…reasonably useful while waiting for the core book. As it is, the custom dice/rules mechanic is sufficiently different to other games that the focus on how things work as compared to character creation is sensible. The Beginner's Box is as described. The crunchy goodness of the game proper is next…along with the Gm kit and if need be, extra dice. Yummy.
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#33 Rimmer1

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:31 PM

Necrotic said:

A beginner's box set is an introduction to an RPG and will never include a comprehensive character creation.

 

And, as stated about three times so far, if I had realiused that, I would never have ordered it in the first place. That is really all I have ever said, that I did not realise that this box set was a Glorified Quick Starter, and not a full Role Playing Game.

 

Alas, Caveat Emptor.


Lord Inquisitor - Sometimes a Bolter is not the only, nor best answer my Acolyte.

Acolyte - Yes my Lord, that is why I requisitioned a Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol and Vortex Grenades

Lord Inquisitor - Your not even listening are you?

Acolyte - How are you with Archeotech?


#34 Droma

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:59 PM

Caveat Emptor doesn't work in this instance because there was nothing vague or misleading about the box contents. This is more of just a lesson to pay attention before you do anything in general.

 



#35 mouthymerc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:35 AM

The Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game description actually answers the questions What is the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Game, and for whom is it intended? and How will this product differ from the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook?

Did the OP do no research on this? A game that interests you and you just buy it sight unseen? In the September release it clearly states that the beginners set includes an "abridged and simplified ruleset". November's articles break down what is included in the box set, including stating that they are abridged rules. And December's articles go further into detail. Were all these missed?


People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell


#36 Necrotic

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:40 AM

And the point of my post that you ignored in favour of your "Caveat Emptor" statement is that the parts found in the box are useful.

 

(Though my formating sucked due to posting via mobile at the time)

 

I for one see a lot of future usage if I can get a group together having been out of the RPG side of things since D&D 4th ed launched which pretty much killed our group way back then. Looking forward to getting things back up and running.

 

The core book, at 440+ pages will be a nice addition to the beginners set, as will an extra set of dice or two



#37 Sturn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:43 AM

….it's description includes….

"For example, compared to the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook, the Beginner Game’s rulebook lacks a section on character creation."



#38 Sturn

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:54 AM

Post #1 morning of January 19th:

Rimmer1 said:

Hello, Can someone help with this simple, and possibly stupid question please.

What is the difference between the Begineers Box set and the New Core Book, and which one should I get?

Post #3 evening of Januray 19th:

Rimmer1 said:

The insinuation being that the Beginner Box set is a glorified "Quick Starter" of sorts? and I will only have the complete game if I wait for the "Core" book and get a set of custom dice as a seperate purchase?

Note Rimmer says, "I WILL only have the complete game IF I wait for the "Core" book". At 21:18 hours he appears to still not have purchased the game, but I suppose he could have meant something else.

Post #7 Still Jaunuary 19th at 22:48 hours (1 hour and a half later):

aljovin said:

You're correct, only pregen PC, no character creation in the Beginner Game. Also, the talent Trees used, are a mixed of the specialisation, so there is some small update to make to a "standard" character.

Post #8 January 19th at 22:56 hours:

Rimmer1 said:

Well, thats somewhat disapointing, if I had known that I would have not ordered it from my FLGS.

I guess glorified Quick Starter is a very apt discription.

So, you asked questions about the difference in the games, got responses within the same date telling you there was no character generation.  Then you supposedly ordered it sometime within the same day, but are still pissed there is no character generation?? Did you not read the responses you asked for and got quickly? Or did you ask for details then run out and order it without waiting to see the responses the exact same day? Either it's your own fault for not waiting a few hours (at most) to see the answers to your own questions or you are being dishonest about when/if you actually ordered it. If, contrary to what your posts suggest, you had already ordered it without bothering to read FFG statements of what you would be getting, then that's just your own fault.



#39 mouthymerc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:33 AM

I imagine if he found the forums, he is able to have found the articles on the Beginner Box. That being said, he could also type Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beginner Box reviews into Google and got information that way too. Or maybe he just needed clarity because he found those avenues weren't informative enough.


People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell


#40 LethalDose

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:13 AM

Just realistically, when's the last time you paid $30 for a "complete RPG" + Adventure + dice + bobbins/markers/tokens?  

And then when's the last time you got all that from a major publisher for $30?

Even the MSRP on Sage Edition was $39.95, and that was published in 2007.

-WJL






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