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My teeth hurt already, but I think I'm going to like it! (Stars of Iniquity)


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#21 Justinian

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

signoftheserpent said:

Oh dear. Fanboy time again.

Clearly you don't understand any of this, so let me explain.

Some of FFG's products have not appeared in the UK. They have not been listed as available by the distributor, Esdevium. If they don't list it, shops can't order it. That's how it works. The fault then lies with FFG since they shop to the distributor. If it's not listed it's because FFG has a particular problem with those books.

I didn't say i consistently had problems. I said there are some books that have yet to become available. I'm afraid I can't help you if you don't bother to do me the courtesy of reading what has been written.

Suggesting I move is quite ridiculous, do you seriously think someone is going to emigrate to the US just to get access to a roleplaying book?

 

Now you know how we in the USA feel about ordering from Forge World.



#22 HappyDaze

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

signoftheserpent said:

HappyDaze said:

signoftheserpent said:

Berhagen said:

 

Actually Navis Primer arrived in the EU about à month before the US, so it really seems to be on an individual release basis.

 

I don't know if that's true, but even so that's one book. Meanwhile we are still waiting for Outer Reaches as well.

 

No reason for the skepticism - it's true. If you're consistently having problems getting the products, consider using a different market (or move). Complaining here certainly can't help as it's not something FFG can control once it's out of their warehouses.

 

Oh dear. Fanboy time again.

Clearly you don't understand any of this, so let me explain.

Some of FFG's products have not appeared in the UK. They have not been listed as available by the distributor, Esdevium. If they don't list it, shops can't order it. That's how it works. The fault then lies with FFG since they shop to the distributor. If it's not listed it's because FFG has a particular problem with those books.

I didn't say i consistently had problems. I said there are some books that have yet to become available. I'm afraid I can't help you if you don't bother to do me the courtesy of reading what has been written.

Suggesting I move is quite ridiculous, do you seriously think someone is going to emigrate to the US just to get access to a roleplaying book?

Fanboi? Not sure where you get that idea from. I'm not even sure what your definition is… As for moving, that was a joke. You seem to take this way too seriously, so it's. Not surprising you didn't get it. As for you "helping me" I really think you must be joking now. I don't need anything from you, and its quite apparent that I can't help you with your case of hurt.

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#23 Cryhavok

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

signoftheserpent said:

Cryhavok said:

LOL got to love people with no reasoning in thier head. Yeah emmigration for rpg access is kind of rediculous. Personally I stopped buying hard copies of the books last year, and have gone entirely PDF. Ive never tried but I would assume you could get them that way regardless of location. I highly reccomend it, as I have my whole 40k library on my phone and can prep adventures anywhere im at.

 

Thinking about another thread, I wonder if any pdf readers out there can auto translate the text for those wanting books in other languages. I know google can auto translate web pages, so I wonder if the pdf readers can too.

Why are you mentioning pdf's?

PDF is no use to me at all.

Fgdsfg said:

Cryhavok said:

signoftheserpent said:

HappyDaze said:

signoftheserpent said:

 

Berhagen said:

 

Actually Navis Primer arrived in the EU about à month before the US, so it really seems to be on an individual release basis.

 

I don't know if that's true, but even so that's one book. Meanwhile we are still waiting for Outer Reaches as well.

 

No reason for the skepticism - it's true. If you're consistently having problems getting the products, consider using a different market (or move). Complaining here certainly can't help as it's not something FFG can control once it's out of their warehouses.

 

 

Oh dear. Fanboy time again.

Clearly you don't understand any of this, so let me explain.

Some of FFG's products have not appeared in the UK. They have not been listed as available by the distributor, Esdevium. If they don't list it, shops can't order it. That's how it works. The fault then lies with FFG since they shop to the distributor. If it's not listed it's because FFG has a particular problem with those books.

I didn't say i consistently had problems. I said there are some books that have yet to become available. I'm afraid I can't help you if you don't bother to do me the courtesy of reading what has been written.

Suggesting I move is quite ridiculous, do you seriously think someone is going to emigrate to the US just to get access to a roleplaying book?

LOL got to love people with no reasoning in thier head. Yeah emmigration for rpg access is kind of rediculous. Personally I stopped buying hard copies of the books last year, and have gone entirely PDF. Ive never tried but I would assume you could get them that way regardless of location. I highly reccomend it, as I have my whole 40k library on my phone and can prep adventures anywhere im at.

 

Thinking about another thread, I wonder if any pdf readers out there can auto translate the text for those wanting books in other languages. I know google can auto translate web pages, so I wonder if the pdf readers can too.

Some people don't want .pdfs, which I fully understand. If I could afford it, I would definitely buy all the books hardcover, and if I was planning to buy the hardcover, why should I shell out extra to have it as .pdf?

I can understand wanting to stick with one medium. My suggestion was to get you the information now as opposed to whenever FFG fixes stuff so they can sell you the hard copy. I was thinking getting the information for actual use would be a good idea. Im sorry you find it a useless option. Good luck to you both.

#24 Darkheyr

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:45 AM

PDF would be fine enough for me - I prefer english PDFs for reference (and earlier release), then buy the translated german hardcovers once they come out - usually an ice age or two later.

Buuut… is it, just me, or is SoI actually not even available as a PDF? o.O



#25 Asajev

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:48 AM

Not yet maybe in a couple of weeks it takes about a month from release to get to PDF that is what the standard seems to be.



#26 Cryhavok

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:30 PM

Its not out as pdf yet. Im eagerly awaiting it as such. Generally takes approximatley a month or so after the book is released.

#27 WilliamAsher

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:20 PM

I have had the book for a few days and have played around with it quite a book.  Overall I am very happy with it.  I have long adapted other RPG random system generators to create systems for my game, and find the book to work well both to make completely new systems and to adapt what I allready have written up.  If anything, I think that it can provide almost too many plot hooks to use in one system.  The colony system seems functional, although a PF sink over the long run.  As my players are more concerned with building up their system than their PF, I don't have a problem with that.  I am working on an Excel spreadsheet to track colony stats, just to make my job easier.  I do like the random item generator, and find that using it to make up an item for a new group of Xenos gives me a good feel for how that race works.  The items traits and quirks then become 'common traits' of the Xeno equipment, which then provides a clue to how the race thinks.

 

On the issue of PDF vs Hardcover, I generally prefer to have hardcovers of my books.  Probably because I like to have the various books open to the resources I need all at once.  For this book though, I may get the PDF as well.  With all the charts and flipping back and forth it would be nice to have the ability to print out copies of the relavant pages for myself.  FFG does seem a little bit scattered in how their books are deployed, but the game is more than good enough to put up with that quirk.



#28 Darkheyr

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

Well, I'll hope for that month then.

System generation is actually not what I'm looking for - AstroSynthesis works out for me in that regard. Just add some WH40k oddities, and I'm good to go.

 

How does the colony system work? Are we talking ship-like construction with components? And how is it a PF sink?



#29 TiLT

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:50 PM

Darkheyr said:

How does the colony system work? Are we talking ship-like construction with components? And how is it a PF sink?

I haven't finished reading that section yet, but it seems to be a huge expansion of the colonization Endeavours. The players have to give up a sizeable part of their PF (this can be as much as 10 PF for Industrial or Mining colonies) in order to accquire what they need to start the colony. They also have to create a charter, assign leadership, designate the purpose of the colony, etc. Then they have to find a suitable place to put this colony and actually do so, which could lead to adventures on its own. This entire process is designed so that the players and GM have to build an Endeavour around it, and the success of building the colony then comes from the amount of Achievement Points they get. 

The colony starts out small and can grow over time if it is successful. Eventually it may turn into a gigantic hive city and become a true powerhouse in the Koronus Expanse, but that probably takes time, effort, and a bit of luck. Meanwhile the players will be called upon to participate in the colony's growth, deciding when to use extracted resources for growth and when to keep them for themselves, how to deal with the leadership, and what upgrades to build. Stuff could happen, from Xenos invasions to finding ancient ruins below the colony that are better left alone, and it's up to the players to make sure the colony can survive these challenges. As the colony grows, so does its PF value. 

 



#30 HappyDaze

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:30 AM

TiLT said:

I haven't finished reading that section yet, but it seems to be a huge expansion of the colonization Endeavours. The players have to give up a sizeable part of their PF (this can be as much as 10 PF for Industrial or Mining colonies) in order to accquire what they need to start the colony. They also have to create a charter, assign leadership, designate the purpose of the colony, etc. Then they have to find a suitable place to put this colony and actually do so, which could lead to adventures on its own. This entire process is designed so that the players and GM have to build an Endeavour around it, and the success of building the colony then comes from the amount of Achievement Points they get. 

In most cases, finding a suitable location for a colony should be the first step. Getting everything going without a target world in sight isn't too wise.


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#31 TiLT

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:59 AM

HappyDaze said:

In most cases, finding a suitable location for a colony should be the first step. Getting everything going without a target world in sight isn't too wise.

The book implies otherwise. Regardless, looking at the kinds of systems and planets it generates, finding a reasonably suitable place to plop down a colony isn't that hard. Not that there's anything standing in the way of either approach. 

 



#32 51powerski

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:39 PM

For all those disloyal heretics in the UK unwilling to emmigrate to get a hard copy of this tome, it's now available to order. 

Just picked it up from the Book Depository for a rather nice price. 



#33 WilliamAsher

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:18 PM

Darkheyr,

  I do quite a bit of star system generation myself, but I found the rules pretty easy to use to convert to Rogue Trader specific.  As for being a profit sink, you both invest PF (between 3 and 10 depending on colony type and your luck) to build the colony and have to repeatedly run endeavors to upgrade it.  None of these endeavors earn you PF.  Since you could be instead running endeavors for PF, this tends to reduce your PF.  You do get some useful perks when performing endeavors in the system, which should translate to some additional PF.  Also, you can mine out your system resources for PF as long as you can convince your colony that it is for their own (or the Imperium's) good.  Overall, I think that you could definitely earn more PF just running endeavors, but the colony lets you tie in a lot of endeavors into one area under your control.  My group will be using it as a roleplaying tool, so they don't mind the loss of PF.

  It should be noted that there are a lot of benifits you can skim off a colony once you have it set up.  Bonus AP towards most endeavors, a useful leader figure to run your background endeavors, +5 on Aquisition tests at your colony, PF if you can swing the people into handing over their resources (if you can't convince them you take Complacency loss ), and a variety of roleplaying benifits depending on how you run your game.  If there are Xeno or Archeo sites in system then you also have the ability to explore them for advanced items (even ship components) as well.



#34 TiLT

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

One thing you didn't mention: A colony has a Profit Factor value that increases with size. At the beginning it is the same as the colony's size, but it soon starts to rise faster than that. This PF value is added to the players' profit value. The result is that, because of colony properties and good management, you can spend, say, 4 PF to start preparing your colony, but then instantly regain those PF at the moment the colony is built. Of course, if the colony is lost, you lose those PF, but there has to be a little risk. An industrial or mining colony can earn you pretty huge amounts of PF if you want it to, though that can restrict its growth. Just go visit every 90 days or so and gain up to about 4 brand new PF every time. That's insane! You'll eventually run out of resources to exploit, but hopefully the colony will be large enough by then that it doesn't really matter. At Hive level, the colony adds +18 PF to the players' coffers. 



#35 Darkheyr

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:02 AM

Hmmm. Sounds interesting. Thank you.

I've been toying with drawing up a ship-construction-inspired system for colonies myself, but lacking pressing need I never got far with it. Now SoI is out and my players are actually set onto colonisation, so…

 

Hopefully the PDF is out soonish, as well :D



#36 WilliamAsher

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

While a colony can easily start with a 4 PF, remember that an Industrial Colony requires 6-10 PF just to found (The average startup for even a research colony is 5 PF).  While the PF scales as a colony grows, you also have to perform at least one endeavor per size growth or your colony stats suffer and can eventually cause your colony to fall apart.  By the time you have performed 9 lesser endeavors, and the greater endeavor (founding the colony) without any PF gain you have lost out on 12+ PF (in addition to the startup costs).  This makes a colony a break even deal at best. 

As for harvesting resources for PF, remember that you have to convince the colony each time to give you the PF instead of applying the resource towards its growth.  Failure to do so causes a loss of 1d5 Complacency.  That can kill your colony quite quickly.  You would have to convince the colony to strip mine its own world for your personal proffit.  While possible from time to time, I doubt your GM would allow you to do so continually.  I would probably allow it once a year with good roleplaying.  The Rogue Trader could probably couch it in terms of his Tithe (provided he supports the colony well) and good Imperial citizens would accept it.  Also note that many of the added structures that raise your colony stats, and therefore its PF and utility, also require lesser endeavors.  You could litteraly spend an small campaign just performing the 20-30 endeavors to build up a colony to a major city or hive level.  While that will interest some players (like my own), some of your players are likely to find it more boring than they would like.  You can perform these as background endeavors, but that risks a higher degree of failure and perhaps losing more PF as well.

I am not saying that colonies are not worth it.  Canny players will center much of their endeavors around the colony and its system resources to reap the benifits of their colony bonuses.  This will allow them to gain greater PF from the bonus AP often available through colony structures.  Also note that you can settle multiple colonies in a system, or even on a world.  The largest colony size is a Hive, and many worlds in the Imperium have several Hives.  My players settled an Agricultural Colony on the world with fertile plains and a verdant ecosystem to ensure food supplies for their expansion in the system.  They plan on settling mining and industrial colonies on a nearby moon, and eventually the Explorator plans on developing a small forge world there (free of the stifiling dogma of the more repressive Calaxian forges).  The group intends for the system to be self sufficient, as least as far as is possible.  It may also be desired to keep your colonies small, especially on less hospitable worlds used primarilly for mining or research.  How you do that is between your GM and you.



#37 TiLT

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:26 PM

WilliamAsher said:

While a colony can easily start with a 4 PF, remember that an Industrial Colony requires 6-10 PF just to found (The average startup for even a research colony is 5 PF).  While the PF scales as a colony grows, you also have to perform at least one endeavor per size growth or your colony stats suffer and can eventually cause your colony to fall apart.  By the time you have performed 9 lesser endeavors, and the greater endeavor (founding the colony) without any PF gain you have lost out on 12+ PF (in addition to the startup costs).  This makes a colony a break even deal at best. [/quote]

This is why the book includes a sub-chapter about delegating objectives in endeavours to NPCs. If a group of Explorers wants to deal with every little endeavour that may pop up in their colony, they'd never get the chance to do anything else. Sometimes they just have to let their people help out. You can also use the rules about background endeavours from Into the Storm. 

You're inventing restrictions by not allowing your players to harvest resources every 90 days, which is going to hurt them especially hard with an agricultural colony. Also, when harvesting the resources, they always get the PF regardless of whether they manage to charm the population or not. A charismatic rogue trader wouldn't have any problems getting a colony to do nothing but stripmine the planet while he sends ships to retrieve the spoils, forcing the colony to grow on its own accord. 

To me it seems that running a successful colony without having it completely absorb the Explorers' lives requires trustworthy people and a talent for delegation. That way the rogue trader can be off on adventures while conducting most of his business via astropath. Of course, there are risks involved in this, but the rogue trader typically has a chance to get in there and deal with complications himself. 



#38 TiLT

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

Sigh… No edit button. Only the first paragraph above is part of the quote box. The rest is my post. 



#39 Asajev

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

side question, not colony related directly but more system generation. do we have rules to handle multi star systems, like binary or trinary systems?



#40 TiLT

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:26 PM

Asajev said:

side question, not colony related directly but more system generation. do we have rules to handle multi star systems, like binary or trinary systems?

Yes. One of the results for star generation is a binary star, in which case you generate two stars and use the effect from the strongest of them, ignoring the weakest. There are no results for trinary stars, but you could easily handle that in the same way. Apart from the purely visual aspect of it, there's nothing else that changes with the number of stars. 






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