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Red 5 can't be in the same deck with Trench Run? Wtf? How is this explained?


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#21 videinfra

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

Mr. Doctor said:

 

videinfra said:

 

Got a bit personal quick. I've warmed up to the idea that the action isn't literal, I have no problem with it. But expecting the main cinematic event in the movie to be doable in the game based on the movie does not make me entitled. Unless you're just trolling. 

 

 

No, expecting the devs to have reworked their plans based on your personal opinion of what the most important scene in the movie is.

 

 

Ah.So you're just trolling. It's called the  "climax" of the movie, look up that complicated movie term on wiki. And I'm confident the game designers could have worked out something without scrapping the ENTIRE game (and I thiñk they will). That conclusion is pretty ridiculous.



#22 videinfra

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:32 AM

DailyRich said:

Thing is, I don't want to be tied down to having Red Five HAVE to follow Luke everywhere.  Or Luke always having Artoo and Threepio.  I've seen that for over 35 years now.  I'd much rather the game worry about invoking the spirit of the franchise than exactingly recreate every last moment.

Who said anything about Red Five being the *only* unit that should be able to do a trench run or having to follow Luke. I just said it should be possible considering it's the climax of the movie. I'd go as far to say that it should probàbly be the unit that is best at it. And it is possible to have different themes in the same deck, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.



#23 Mr. Doctor

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:48 AM

videinfra said:

Mr. Doctor said:

 

videinfra said:

 

Got a bit personal quick. I've warmed up to the idea that the action isn't literal, I have no problem with it. But expecting the main cinematic event in the movie to be doable in the game based on the movie does not make me entitled. Unless you're just trolling. 

 

 

No, expecting the devs to have reworked their plans based on your personal opinion of what the most important scene in the movie is.

 

 

Ah.So you're just trolling. It's called the  "climax" of the movie, look up that complicated movie term on wiki. And I'm confident the game designers could have worked out something without scrapping the ENTIRE game (and I thiñk they will). That conclusion is pretty ridiculous.

The climax isn't inherently the most important part of either a film or piece of literature, and others have pointed out the game is not based on any one movie. Maybe send the devs an email with your suggestion, as though they never considered it during development.



#24 LMKComaBlack

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:21 PM

You all are not seeing a huge development area… Faction cards.  Doesn't it strike you as odd that the Faction Card gives the reserve limit each time, rather than a flat rule in the book (even though they are all the same and all create a single faction resource)?

Think of it…  A duel Jedi/Rebel faction card that only has a reserve value of 5, or doesn't create a resource.  Faction cards with pay abilites or static board abilities instead of resources.  The simple choice to have every Faction Card list its own reserve value and resource value (and turn sequence!!!) give them a huge playground for wild tweeks.   Sith that play characters after the attack?  Rebels that always draw their hand at the end of the turn?

Who's to say we won't get duel faction cards, or alternate single faction cards?  Maybe Red 5 will get his Trench Run after all…



#25 cleardave

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

LMKComaBlack said:

You all are not seeing a huge development area… Faction cards.  Doesn't it strike you as odd that the Faction Card gives the reserve limit each time, rather than a flat rule in the book (even though they are all the same and all create a single faction resource)?

Think of it…  A duel Jedi/Rebel faction card that only has a reserve value of 5, or doesn't create a resource.  Faction cards with pay abilites or static board abilities instead of resources.  The simple choice to have every Faction Card list its own reserve value and resource value (and turn sequence!!!) give them a huge playground for wild tweeks.   Sith that play characters after the attack?  Rebels that always draw their hand at the end of the turn?

Who's to say we won't get duel faction cards, or alternate single faction cards?  Maybe Red 5 will get his Trench Run after all…

So your theory is that the affiliation cards will ultimately turn out to be more Netrunner and less Game of Thrones?  That's certainly possible.  Ultimately, I think it's fair to say that if this game makes it through a couple of years of expansions, I'm sure, somewhere in there will be a way to get Red Five to engage the Trench Run card, whether its alternate Red Fives or new Affiliation cards, or some kind of Event that makes it all work.



#26 dbmeboy

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:51 AM

I had a blog post last month looking at all of the different things they could do with affiliation cards in the future.  By choosing to print game rules on them (including starting reserve and a number of resources) that have them do more than just work as markers but actually interacting with the game, they've given themselves a huge amount of available design space should they ever choose to use it.



#27 videinfra

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:11 AM

Mr. Doctor said:

videinfra said:

 

Mr. Doctor said:

 

videinfra said:

 

Got a bit personal quick. I've warmed up to the idea that the action isn't literal, I have no problem with it. But expecting the main cinematic event in the movie to be doable in the game based on the movie does not make me entitled. Unless you're just trolling. 

 

 

No, expecting the devs to have reworked their plans based on your personal opinion of what the most important scene in the movie is.

 

 

Ah.So you're just trolling. It's called the  "climax" of the movie, look up that complicated movie term on wiki. And I'm confident the game designers could have worked out something without scrapping the ENTIRE game (and I thiñk they will). That conclusion is pretty ridiculous.

 

 

The climax isn't inherently the most important part of either a film or piece of literature, and others have pointed out the game is not based on any one movie. Maybe send the devs an email with your suggestion, as though they never considered it during development.

I did, they wrote back that you must be female -- thinking the climax is not the most important part. Lol. Baboom!



#28 videinfra

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:13 AM

LMKComaBlack said:

You all are not seeing a huge development area… Faction cards.  Doesn't it strike you as odd that the Faction Card gives the reserve limit each time, rather than a flat rule in the book (even though they are all the same and all create a single faction resource)?

Think of it…  A duel Jedi/Rebel faction card that only has a reserve value of 5, or doesn't create a resource.  Faction cards with pay abilites or static board abilities instead of resources.  The simple choice to have every Faction Card list its own reserve value and resource value (and turn sequence!!!) give them a huge playground for wild tweeks.   Sith that play characters after the attack?  Rebels that always draw their hand at the end of the turn?

Who's to say we won't get duel faction cards, or alternate single faction cards?  Maybe Red 5 will get his Trench Run after all…

True, that would be interesting. I was thinking more just about cards that manipulate the reserve value, but that sounds like an interesting idea.



#29 jesterhawk

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:18 PM

Ok I am brand new to the game so please forgive me if I am naive about something.

 

But why can't you make a Rebel-Jedi LS deck that would have both of them?  I mean the deck building rules (unless I missed something) in the rulebook do nor say you have to have only the affiliation and neutral only that you can't mix LS and DS.  So if you had five Rebel and five Jedi objective sets, you could make a rebel-jedi deck and then you could have them together.  Of course, this may not play very well but I see it could happen.

 

JH


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#30 ScottieATF

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:27 PM

jesterhawk said:

Ok I am brand new to the game so please forgive me if I am naive about something.

 

But why can't you make a Rebel-Jedi LS deck that would have both of them?  I mean the deck building rules (unless I missed something) in the rulebook do nor say you have to have only the affiliation and neutral only that you can't mix LS and DS.  So if you had five Rebel and five Jedi objective sets, you could make a rebel-jedi deck and then you could have them together.  Of course, this may not play very well but I see it could happen.

 

JH

Read both Objective cards that the mentioned cards come with.  They both say "xyz affiliation only".  If you re-read the deck buildings rules you will see you can only pick on affiliation card (which does not have to have anything to do with what objectives you are using except in this case).  If you can only have one affiliation how can you satisfy two different't "xyz affiliation only"?



#31 agnos

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

Bottom line, you have to accept that Gameplay > Story.  Yes, we want the cool thematic flavor from the Star Wars universe, but it's more important to have a good game instead of having a bad game that tells a great story that we've heard/watched/read a thousand times.  

That said, I think that FFG made a big mistake making those 4 pods affiliation specific as none of the four are terribly amazing.  The only pods that should be affiliation specific are the Emperor Pod and the Luke pod as those are clearly the two most powerful for their respective sides.  Additionally, I would argue that the Motti pod and the Mon Mothma pod should likely be affiliation specific as they are the most powerful for their respective affiliations.



#32 MarthWMaster

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:59 AM

Enhance the Death Star dial. This enhancement cannot be targeted.
You may engage the Death Star dial as though it were a dark side objective (it is not an objective). If the dial has 10 or more damage, the light side wins the game. 

Of note here is the fact that even in a multiplayer game (assuming Balance of the Force rules), a player running Red Five cannot engage a Death Star dial enhanced by another player's Trench Run, as the latter card's phrasing prohibits it. I'd assume this was done for the sake of play balance, were it not for the fact that it seems possible, given Trench Run's wording, for two or more players to enhance the Death Star dial with their multiple copies of Trench Run, and then count all the damage they have accumulated together, since it all goes onto the same dial. They could easily errata the card to fix this, such that only one Trench Run can go onto the Death Star dial.


"To play a wrong note is insignificant. To play without passion is inexcusable."
– Beethoven

#33 dbmeboy

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

MarthWMaster said:

Enhance the Death Star dial. This enhancement cannot be targeted.
You may engage the Death Star dial as though it were a dark side objective (it is not an objective). If the dial has 10 or more damage, the light side wins the game. 

Of note here is the fact that even in a multiplayer game (assuming Balance of the Force rules), a player running Red Five cannot engage a Death Star dial enhanced by another player's Trench Run, as the latter card's phrasing prohibits it. I'd assume this was done for the sake of play balance, were it not for the fact that it seems possible, given Trench Run's wording, for two or more players to enhance the Death Star dial with their multiple copies of Trench Run, and then count all the damage they have accumulated together, since it all goes onto the same dial. They could easily errata the card to fix this, such that only one Trench Run can go onto the Death Star dial.

It won't need any errata most likely.  It's a unique card.  As long as the multiplayer rules prevent the LS players from having multiples of unique cards on table, it will work for Trench Run too.



#34 Toqtamish

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:46 AM

The rule book already states only one a unique can be in play at any time so should be no issues with Trench Run. Of course that will also want to make the LS players discuss their decks and most likely use different affiliations to avoid duplicates. 



#35 dbmeboy

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Toqtamish said:

The rule book already states only one a unique can be in play at any time so should be no issues with Trench Run. Of course that will also want to make the LS players discuss their decks and most likely use different affiliations to avoid duplicates. 

Most likely.  It's possible that the multiplayer rules would change that to each player may only have one copy of each unique card… but I hope not.



#36 MarthWMaster

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:42 PM

I can't believe I missed the Trench Run's unique symbol! But yes, I enjoy the fact that multiple copies of unique cards cannot be in play simultaneously. I am curious to see how this might be handled with characters who spend time on both sides of the Force, such as Galen Marek (AKA Starkiller) or, more likely to occur soon, Lando Calrissian. I do hope the DS player will eventually have a mechanic that allows him to tempt and/or seduce LS units with promises of power…


"To play a wrong note is insignificant. To play without passion is inexcusable."
– Beethoven

#37 cleardave

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

MarthWMaster said:

I can't believe I missed the Trench Run's unique symbol! But yes, I enjoy the fact that multiple copies of unique cards cannot be in play simultaneously. I am curious to see how this might be handled with characters who spend time on both sides of the Force, such as Galen Marek (AKA Starkiller) or, more likely to occur soon, Lando Calrissian. I do hope the DS player will eventually have a mechanic that allows him to tempt and/or seduce LS units with promises of power…

The simple solution is to do something similar to how Lando was handled in Decipher's game; once the character is played by either side, it is now "in play" for uniqueness purposes.  Then, you may have some text on the card itself that allows the character to be replaced by the opposite side's character, by paying the deploy cost.

Additionally, it could require an Event card to make the switch, or you would just have to Force Choke (or the Light Side equivalent) the character off the board, then play your own.

In the end, it may just be a simple matter of saying nothing about it, and letting the uniqueness rules speak for themselves, so if I play Lando, you can't, until my Lando is out of play.

Any of these would work, in the mechanical sense, but some options are more fluffy than others.






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