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Is it possible to lose the table top version?


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#21 Vala_Melkor

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:48 AM

Having played about a dozen times now, we've lost a couple of the games, with a few wins being veryyyyyy close to raising “he-who-shall-not-be-named”.

As with all random games … the dice (and card) gods will decide! The odds are certainly in our favour, but we've found some games have been won because we forgot the Mythos card effects (i.e. monsters at midnight, no spells, etc), the adventure card terror effects, locked dice, etc … so keeping track of what's going on across the table can sometimes allow you to win.

I doubt if many people would buy the game if it was too hard, so it always a balancing act for game designers to find that … equilibrium … to keep it challenging for us plebs.

I personally luv this game because of the whole package … storyline, cool images, cards, textures, counters, etc … luv it! AND with the expansion … well, let's see if it adds more fear to the unbelievers! … Walts


 


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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... [laughs] Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched cBeams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost in time, like [coughs] tears... in... rain. Time... to die...

 


#22 crucesdave

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:07 AM

Fake Ghost Pirate said:

 

I devised a very, very, very exceedingly simple variant to add to the difficulty of Elder Sign, even with the easiest Ancient Ones.

 

Here it is: one Green Die is locked all game, returned to the box: even Sister Mary can't use it. It only becomes unlocked during the Final Battle. That's it.

 

Believe me with this one simple change the entire game becomes a harrowing death-struggle for your heroes (but it makes Shub-N literally impossible to play against, so I never use it with that Ancient One)

If that's not enough of a challenge, once you've all picked starting Investigators return all but 3 extras to the box. If a replacement ever needs to be drawn but there's none of these 3 left, you lose! (wish I could print up a real nice Scenario card for these variants on Strange Eons)

 

Thanks for the tip. A great variant is always appreciated



#23 zeromage

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:45 PM

I've actually never lost this game in about 20 tries.  I find its a bad sign when you win the first time you play.  



#24 Julia

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:40 AM

Agreed, the game is rather easy to beat (I lost once in 43 attempts). Have you considered adding the Master Mythos to the mix? They are somehow more threatening.

 

Otherwise you can use Tibs' variant: the Skill Dice.


Edited by Julia, 11 March 2014 - 03:40 AM.

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#25 Dam

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:06 AM

Unseen Forces expansion (where Master Mythos come in), all in all makes the game even easier. Mostly because of the drop in already low doom token amounts. My plays with just base had around 5.8 doom tokens, with expansion, average is around 2.8, that's just too low (including 5 wins with doom track on 0).


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#26 Julia

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:54 AM

A wider sampler than Dam's personal statistics can be found here. The overall trend is that the game is more difficult with Unseen Forces in (19.51% losses) rather than just core game (17.95%)

 

Additionally, Unseen Forces Ancient One Abhoth is the toughest guy in town (33% losses) unless you own Shubbie Arkham Night version


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#27 Dam

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:31 AM

Even though the difference is rather minor, I just can't see how you'd lose more with UF than without it. Almost everything UF adds makes it easier. Instead of adding a doom token as reward for a few cards, you get to remove from the already meagre numbers. Blessed, far more common in appearance than Cursed, sticks around a lot longer (most of the time that investigator keeps it until the end) adds another semi-permanent die. Master Mythos, that sound like they should be nasty, many have A or B option, with one of them always being no doom token, yet again slowing down the lagging clock.

 

Abhoth seems nasty because of his Children, but you rarely should have to deal with them. It takes 4 Midnights to hit the lose condition, you can get enough Elder Signs before that with a good draw or you can just use one of the new cards to remove an Adventure with a Child and replace the Adventure, but remove the Child, or slap down Greater Banishment and ignore the Children completely. I'm 4-0 against Abhoth, I think in one of those games have I had to actually fight a Child.

 

I'm 21-3 with base, 22-0 with UF and all the games with it have been a lot easier (doom track being slower is the biggest reason, Blessed second biggest). It's gotten to the point where we were playing with my friend and felt bad for winning with doom tokens on the track, like it was an epic failure win, after getting a 0 doom token victory in the previous game. Which now seems like the goal, win is all but automatic, gimmie, at this stage with UF.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#28 Julia

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:57 AM

These are all fair points Dam. My score isn't that different from yours: 18-0 with the core game, 21-1 with Unseen Forces. And I agree on the deck analysis. The only game I lost with UF was due to a Master Mythos triggering an extra +3 doomers in the same phase when I was 1ES from winning again.

 

Still, on average, stats show that 1 game out of 5 is lost. There are two different threads intertwining here: what statistics say, and what our personal experience says. The fact that we win so often is due to the fact that we understand the game properly / we play at higher levels than average; this doesn't automatically imply that our experience is representative of the difficulties people could have when facing the game.


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#29 Westonard

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:00 AM

Really, when you add the Master Mythos cards, you should be pulling some out of the Mythos deck. If you over saturate it, you won't run into the mythos cards that are meant to add doom tokens. Castle Panic! had a list of monsters to pull to be replaced, but I think that is more because you can't win until everything is dead and that would just add far too many  monsters to drag out the game. But even still, if you remove core Mythos cards to add in Master Mythos, you can make the game challenging. Especially if the ones you remove might be some of the more 'tame' mythos options. I have only played one game so far, and we won fighting Azathoth with five players, even then it was somewhat close, with him only needing three or four more doom tokens. 

 

I don't have the decks infront of me, at my friend's house where we play the games so I just leave it there, but I would say remove two 'tame' mythos and one mean one for every three master mythos you insert or one and one for two if that is too many. If you just pull everything that is not nasty out, then the game goes into the 'not fun' level of challenging, but I would honestly just from a DM/ST perspective make sure that you are doing an even balance of challenge and not challenge. Also, I play with a larger gaming group, 5-6+ people. I have played Arkham and MoM, the former a lot, the latter not so much just because of the amount of time for set up. I said my opinion on the Arkham Nights GOO, and after we get some more Elder Signs under our belts as a gaming group I will likely swap out cards for the Master Mythos and post what I pulled here, unless FFG chooses to beat me to the punch. 



#30 Julia

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 06:31 AM

Actually, some sort of deck building for the Mythos deck can help a lot in making the game harder. Go for it!


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#31 xodarap

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 11:55 PM

Having played about a dozen times now, we've lost a couple of the games, with a few wins being veryyyyyy close to raising “he-who-shall-not-be-named”.

As with all random games … the dice (and card) gods will decide! The odds are certainly in our favour, but we've found some games have been won because we forgot the Mythos card effects (i.e. monsters at midnight, no spells, etc), the adventure card terror effects, locked dice, etc … so keeping track of what's going on across the table can sometimes allow you to win.

I doubt if many people would buy the game if it was too hard, so it always a balancing act for game designers to find that … equilibrium … to keep it challenging for us plebs.

I personally luv this game because of the whole package … storyline, cool images, cards, textures, counters, etc … luv it! AND with the expansion … well, let's see if it adds more fear to the unbelievers! … Walts

 


"Hastur. Hastur. Hastur. Suck it, my girlfriend is Science!"
-Will Wheaton-

#32 xodarap

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:01 AM

Sorry Vala but this message board will post the quote but not my response I just wanted to share with you somehing funny that someone once said about "he who would rather not be named for some undetermined or explained reason."

"Hastur. Hastur. Hastur. Suck it my girlfriend is Science!"
-Will Wheaton-
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#33 whaggardjr

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:21 PM

If you are looking for a simple way to increase difficulty, try randomly adding one monster to each adventure location at the beginning of the game, then just play the game as normal.  It's a simple way to increase difficulty without changing any major game rules or mechanics.



#34 xodarap

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:41 AM

Having played about a dozen times now, we've lost a couple of the games, with a few wins being veryyyyyy close to raising “he-who-shall-not-be-named”.

As with all random games … the dice (and card) gods will decide! The odds are certainly in our favour, but we've found some games have been won because we forgot the Mythos card effects (i.e. monsters at midnight, no spells, etc), the adventure card terror effects, locked dice, etc … so keeping track of what's going on across the table can sometimes allow you to win.

I doubt if many people would buy the game if it was too hard, so it always a balancing act for game designers to find that … equilibrium … to keep it challenging for us plebs.

I personally luv this game because of the whole package … storyline, cool images, cards, textures, counters, etc … luv it! AND with the expansion … well, let's see if it adds more fear to the unbelievers! … Walts

 


"Hastur. Hastur. Hastur. Suck it, my girlfriend is Science!"
-Will Wheaton-

#35 xodarap

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:43 AM

That's a good idea, I think if I ever feel the need to increase the difficulty I'll do that or start adding a doomer at midnight every night regardless of the Mythos card.

Honestly though many of my games have been veeeeery close. I also admit that I enjoy having a game where my poor devastated investigators (Yes, you can blame Eldritch Horror for that.....) have a decent chance at revenge er... I mean justice!
"Hastur. Hastur. Hastur. Suck it, my girlfriend is Science!"
-Will Wheaton-




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