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#21 Saturnine

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

photogasm said:

You may pay an additonal credit to break ONE additional subroutine on that ice.

You re-worded what the effect does … for each time you trigger the ability. And I don't see why its triggering condition wouldn't be met by the use of its own ability. It's called a feedback implant, after all.



#22 photogasm

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

It says right there that you may break 1 additional subroutine

 

I think if you could keep breaking subroutines for 1 credit that would make the card rather broken, don't you?  It's already pretty powerful for its cost as it is.



#23 somnambulant

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

I believe over on BGG someone already asked FFG for an answer on this, and the reply was "Yes, the card can trigger off itself. So as long as the runner wants to keep spending 1 cred / sub, he can keep breaking them."

It's not THAT powerful.

 



#24 Saturnine

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:48 PM

photogasm said:

I think if you could keep breaking subroutines for 1 credit that would make the card rather broken, don't you?

This amuses me greatly, as I was having a lengthy discussion with another forum member who argued that at 1 credit per subroutine it's useless garbage, as most icebreakers allow you to break subs for 1 credit anyway, and I was arguing that 1 credit per sub is fine (for/against certain decks).

No, I don't think it's broken. It helps offset the steep cost of the 2 credit per sub icebreakers, but you need to draw and install the card first, and it will become increasingly vulnerable as more hardware destruction effects become available. Granted, it is a silver bullet against bioroid ice. But ultimately, it's just one card amongst others that spell trouble for this corp or that corp, and the metagame will adjust. If you stack enough bioroid ice, the runner will be out of clicks eventually. And not every criminal will use it (and even fewer runners from the other factions splash it).



#25 photogasm

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:03 PM

If that is the case, I won't be surprised to see this in every runner deck.



#26 TheRedArmy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:30 PM

photogasm said:

If that is the case, I won't be surprised to see this in every runner deck.

Finding difficulty disagreeing with this. Against HB it's very powerful. I already thought HB ICE had issues. It's very easy to splash one for late game runs against heavy servers and save this for that one big bioroid ICE.

#27 Saturnine

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:05 AM

Got a response from Lukas about E3 Feedback Implant today. He confirms that it does indeed trigger off of itself.



#28 photogasm

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:33 AM

Wacky.

 

 



#29 Syphus

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:29 PM

This card really mandates Power Grid Overload going into my deck



#30 Messenger

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:42 AM

Saturnine said:

photogasm said:

 

I think if you could keep breaking subroutines for 1 credit that would make the card rather broken, don't you?

 

 

This amuses me greatly, as I was having a lengthy discussion with another forum member who argued that at 1 credit per subroutine it's useless garbage, as most icebreakers allow you to break subs for 1 credit anyway, and I was arguing that 1 credit per sub is fine (for/against certain decks).

No, I don't think it's broken. It helps offset the steep cost of the 2 credit per sub icebreakers, but you need to draw and install the card first, and it will become increasingly vulnerable as more hardware destruction effects become available. Granted, it is a silver bullet against bioroid ice. But ultimately, it's just one card amongst others that spell trouble for this corp or that corp, and the metagame will adjust. If you stack enough bioroid ice, the runner will be out of clicks eventually. And not every criminal will use it (and even fewer runners from the other factions splash it).

That forum member would be me. complice

I took the position that costing 1 credit to work would only make it good in conjunction with 'breakers that require 2 creds to break 'routines. More or less, we assumed at the time that it would trigger only once after the 'breaker did the initial work. That would have made the card a very weak upgrade to how most Crim 'breakers did their thing.

While I saw that as weak, now that it's indeed confirmed to work with a 1 credit cost but capable of triggering off itself, what we have is a piece of hardware that seemed weak but is actually stronger. It's sort of the reverse of what happened previously.

We have a piece of hardware that's going to make a mockery of Bioroid ICE. Outside of that, it's only good for alleviating the cost of Aurora and Peacock or maybe Battering Ram and Wyrm as well. You're going to have to build around this card if you want to use it as more than just an HB hoser.



#31 Messenger

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:43 AM

As it stands, most Crim decks are more than willing to borrow cheaper-breaking icebreakers from other factions.



#32 Saturnine

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:43 AM

Messenger said:

More or less, we assumed at the time that it would trigger only once after the 'breaker did the initial work.

I don't recall making that assumption, nor do I remember you bringing that up so I could challenge that assumption. Perhaps that was a factor in our disagreement. *shrug*



#33 Messenger

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:35 AM

Saturnine said:

Messenger said:

More or less, we assumed at the time that it would trigger only once after the 'breaker did the initial work.

 

I don't recall making that assumption, nor do I remember you bringing that up so I could challenge that assumption. Perhaps that was a factor in our disagreement. *shrug*

Not explicitly. Rather, I think we just didn't consider it working on itself at the time.



#34 Saturnine

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

Messenger said:

Not explicitly. Rather, I think we just didn't consider it working on itself at the time.

You misunderstand. I believe I always assumed it would trigger off of itself. Maybe that's why I saw more potential for the card than you did.



#35 Messenger

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:16 PM

Saturnine said:

Messenger said:

 

Not explicitly. Rather, I think we just didn't consider it working on itself at the time.

 

 

You misunderstand. I believe I always assumed it would trigger off of itself. Maybe that's why I saw more potential for the card than you did.

Ah. I see.

I'm afraid we would have still disagreed. I still see it as doing what most icebreakers do anyway: break for 1 credit. The difference is the use up of card slots to do it. Given bioroid ICE and the addition of Peacock, it has a place in Crim decks unwilling to use other factions' breakers.



#36 Hdnggrnchrg

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:14 AM

Messenger said:

Saturnine said:

 

Messenger said:

 

Not explicitly. Rather, I think we just didn't consider it working on itself at the time.

 

 

You misunderstand. I believe I always assumed it would trigger off of itself. Maybe that's why I saw more potential for the card than you did.

 

Ah. I see.

 

I'm afraid we would have still disagreed. I still see it as doing what most icebreakers do anyway: break for 1 credit. The difference is the use up of card slots to do it. Given bioroid ICE and the addition of Peacock, it has a place in Crim decks unwilling to use other factions' breakers.

And a very good place indeed, my current Crim deck has room for all the Anarch money-cards in it. If only I had room for Vamp…






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