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Khorne Berzerkers and their lot - just how aligned are they?


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#41 Qaia

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

HappyDaze said:

Cifer said:

 

It may not be simple (although, let's face it: How difficult is it to open the relevant pages of two books, put them next to each other and look up which advances do not appear in both of them?)

 

 

You're making a huge assumption that each advanced archetype clearly derives from one of the basic archetypes. I would say this is incorrect. Consider the Khorne Berserker. It could be argued that it's Champion, Chosen, or Forsaken since it has elements of all three. I instead contend that it's none of those but something unique.

 

There does seem to be a lot more variety with regards to the Khorne Berserker, now that I look at it. Remarkably, the Thousand Sons Sorcerer is literally a duplicate of the Unaligned Sorcerer. But with regards to the Khorne Berserker, it does appear that treating him as a distint Archetype actually does make more sense since there is not a great deal of overlap with any one distinct Unaligned Archetype from the Core Rulebook. Additionally, a little bit more of a careful reading, the Tomes do actually state "four NEW character Archetypes" (my emphasis, page 26 in Tome of Fate and page 24 in Tome of Blood).

So, I backtrack on my previous statements, but not for the reason of "simplicity", as I always prefer realism to simplicity (even though the rules are flexible to allow for both cases, take for example the case of ammunition as stated in the Core Rulebook).

However, I still think it's unrealistic that the Alignment counts should all be 0 so that a Khorne Berserker or Thousand Sons Sorcerer could become Unaligned without purchasing any Advances at the next Corruption Point threshold. Without any clarifications from FFG, the most reasonable option to me (and closest to realistic situations) would be to set the start the Alignment counts at (5,0,0,0).



#42 Terraneaux

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

Qaia said:

However, I still think it's unrealistic that the Alignment counts should all be 0 so that a Khorne Berserker or Thousand Sons Sorcerer could become Unaligned without purchasing any Advances at the next Corruption Point threshold. Without any clarifications from FFG, the most reasonable option to me (and closest to realistic situations) would be to set the start the Alignment counts at (5,0,0,0).

 

It's unrealistic, but it's what we're left with as the rules don't leave any special case for aligned archetypes.  

 

For my part, I'd throw my hat in the ring with the (5,0,0,0) house rule being the best way to resolve aligned archetypes, since it's not clear if any of the aligned archetypes are clearly based off of 'normal' archetypes.



#43 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

Qaia said:

So, I backtrack on my previous statements, but not for the reason of "simplicity", as I always prefer realism to simplicity (even though the rules are flexible to allow for both cases, take for example the case of ammunition as stated in the Core Rulebook).

However, I still think it's unrealistic that the Alignment counts should all be 0 so that a Khorne Berserker or Thousand Sons Sorcerer could become Unaligned without purchasing any Advances at the next Corruption Point threshold. Without any clarifications from FFG, the most reasonable option to me (and closest to realistic situations) would be to set the start the Alignment counts at (5,0,0,0).

So you ended up taking a complicated route to get back to the simple answer I proposed. Extra effort for nothing, but at least you're back on the same page.


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#44 Qaia

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:05 AM

HappyDaze said:

Qaia said:

 

So, I backtrack on my previous statements, but not for the reason of "simplicity", as I always prefer realism to simplicity (even though the rules are flexible to allow for both cases, take for example the case of ammunition as stated in the Core Rulebook).

However, I still think it's unrealistic that the Alignment counts should all be 0 so that a Khorne Berserker or Thousand Sons Sorcerer could become Unaligned without purchasing any Advances at the next Corruption Point threshold. Without any clarifications from FFG, the most reasonable option to me (and closest to realistic situations) would be to set the start the Alignment counts at (5,0,0,0).

 

 

So you ended up taking a complicated route to get back to the simple answer I proposed. Extra effort for nothing, but at least you're back on the same page.

 

No, it wasn't extra effort for nothing. Did I lose some sort of precious time or something that I should regret trying to find a more plausible explanation to implementing a system other than relying on KISS? My time, my efforts. If you want to rely on KISS because your time and efforts are so precious to waste, then go ahead.



#45 HappyDaze

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:37 PM

Qaia said:

HappyDaze said:

 

Qaia said:

 

So, I backtrack on my previous statements, but not for the reason of "simplicity", as I always prefer realism to simplicity (even though the rules are flexible to allow for both cases, take for example the case of ammunition as stated in the Core Rulebook).

However, I still think it's unrealistic that the Alignment counts should all be 0 so that a Khorne Berserker or Thousand Sons Sorcerer could become Unaligned without purchasing any Advances at the next Corruption Point threshold. Without any clarifications from FFG, the most reasonable option to me (and closest to realistic situations) would be to set the start the Alignment counts at (5,0,0,0).

 

 

So you ended up taking a complicated route to get back to the simple answer I proposed. Extra effort for nothing, but at least you're back on the same page.

 

 

 

No, it wasn't extra effort for nothing. Did I lose some sort of precious time or something that I should regret trying to find a more plausible explanation to implementing a system other than relying on KISS? My time, my efforts. If you want to rely on KISS because your time and efforts are so precious to waste, then go ahead.

Well, your time, your effort, and…

You accomplished nothing more than to come to the same conclusion as those of us that opted with the quick and simple answer. Should you regret it? No, not if you've learned from it. Some people just have to try harder than others to accomplish the same task.


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#46 Qaia

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:04 AM

 

HappyDaze said:
Some people just have to try harder than others to accomplish the same task.
 
I really am getting a chuckle out of the fact that you are trying to insult me, yet you are the one that finds gauging whether to round up or down to be "complicated" and are averse to placing two books side-by-side to compare what starting assets are in common.
 
I can only imagine your campaigns:
 
- "You're walking along a straight path…" Why a straight path? Let's keep it simple. Too "complicated" to add modifiers for mountainous terrain.
 
- "during a bright, sunny day…" Why a bright, sunny day? Let's keep it simple. Too "complicated" to add modifiers for fog.
 
- "when you come across what appears to be an evil-doer wishing to engage you in combat. He kindly tells you that he will attack first, and explains to the Khorne Berskerkers using persuasive language that it's simpler this way as it would eliminate the need for an additional "complicated" initiative roll. The Khorne Berserkers oblige and act surprised…"
 
 
 
As you say, "simple is better". LMAO.


#47 HappyDaze

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

Qaia said:

 

I can only imagine your campaigns:
 

 

 

No, going by you supposed examples, you apparently can't imagine them.

[ADMIN: Edited for content.]

 


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#48 Cryhavok

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

Khorne is readying the arena for you two. Personally I think this is rediculous. You dont have to see eye to eye. You are allowed to disagree. But it is even possible to do all that without fighting.

#49 Cifer

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:03 PM

And, just to note: There are IIRC two advancements the Chosen does not have in common with the Berzerker; the Frostfather and Chem Warrior are pretty close to the Renegade and the Q'Sal Magister is built entirely upon the psyker. The rest I haven't yet checked.



#50 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:04 AM

I realize this is a bit of thread necromancy, but I have a related question.

 

Advanced archetypes all seem to start with at least 15 Corruption. Does that mean they all start with a Gift of the Gods?



#51 BrotharTearer

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:37 PM

Yes, obviously, as that's what happens whenever you go over 10 corruption. No avoiding it. Ever.



#52 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:47 AM

Thanks!

 

Further question: if the character is aligned (say a Khorne Berzerker) is the GotG done with him as Unaligned or Aligned? I ask because it says "begins plays aligned," not "is already aligned during character creation."


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 29 August 2013 - 12:48 AM.


#53 BrotharTearer

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:06 AM

You always check alignment before rolling for gifts/rewards, so obviously he'll count as aligned to khorne.


Edited by BrotharTearer, 29 August 2013 - 01:06 AM.


#54 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:06 AM

Not meaning to drag this on forever, but -- would his initial Advancements be bought using the Khorne alignment?



#55 BrotharTearer

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:44 AM

Advanced archetypes get no starting xp unless the GM gives him additional. And then, yes, of course — he starts as aligned. Nothing else would make sense.






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