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Does an unopposed defender also automatically win the edge battle?


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#1 Hurdoc

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:59 AM

The rules specifically state that an unopposed attacker automatically wins the edge battle but what about the reverse? I would assume so but was wondering why the rules only mention attacker specifically.



#2 houjix1138

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

Hurdoc said:

The rules specifically state that an unopposed attacker automatically wins the edge battle but what about the reverse? I would assume so but was wondering why the rules only mention attacker specifically.

Probably because it's a much less likely scenario.

Since the attacker would be unable to add cards to the Edge Battle, the defender would be able to win the battle 0-0, barring any other modifiers, as the defender wins ties. If there are other modfiers adding to the attacker's total, the defender would probaly need to add Force icon to match the total of the modifers in order to win the battle as you have pointed out, the rules do not automatically grant a win to the defender.



#3 cpjolicoeur

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:33 AM

Hurdoc said:

The rules specifically state that an unopposed attacker automatically wins the edge battle but what about the reverse? I would assume so but was wondering why the rules only mention attacker specifically.

How can you have an unopposed defender?  If the active player doesn't declar any attackers then there is no conflict and no way to even declare defenders and no edge battle?

 



#4 Aahzmandius_Karrde

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:49 AM

cpjolicoeur said:

Hurdoc said:

 

The rules specifically state that an unopposed attacker automatically wins the edge battle but what about the reverse? I would assume so but was wondering why the rules only mention attacker specifically.

 

 

How can you have an unopposed defender?  If the active player doesn't declar any attackers then there is no conflict and no way to even declare defenders and no edge battle?

 

There is an action phase between declaring defenders and the start of the edge battle.  It would be possible to eliminate an attacker or two during this point.


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#5 Hurdoc

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:40 AM

Yes, thats right. There is a Fate card that does one damage to the enemy (attacker), so you could end up defending against no attacker.



#6 Denied

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:23 PM

the question I have is if you are an unopposed defender does it matter if you win edge or not? The only possible way it would matter is if you can attack non engaged enemies but in all those situations if I am not mistaken the possible defender choices that could do this all have black blaster icons. 



#7 Aahzmandius_Karrde

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

Denied said:

the question I have is if you are an unopposed defender does it matter if you win edge or not? The only possible way it would matter is if you can attack non engaged enemies but in all those situations if I am not mistaken the possible defender choices that could do this all have black blaster icons. 

Boba Fett with Mandalorian Armor would have an Edge Enabled unit damage icon with targeted strike, so yes, it can matter.


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#8 Hurdoc

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

And Tactics icons can be used on any enemy unit, even nonparticipating.



#9 Denied

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

both good points. You guys sure it isnt stated in the core rules?



#10 AUCodeMonkey

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

Page 18 of the rules, 2nd column under 4. Fight Edge Battle says:

"A player must control at least one participating unit ot place cads in the edge battle."

So, if the attacking player has no characters AFTER the Edge Battle, then the defending player can actually resolve strikes, from what I can tell. If the attacking player loses all characters prior to the Edge Battle, then they cannot participate in the Edge Battle. Don't know that that really clears things up though…



#11 ScottieATF

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

AUCodeMonkey said:

 

Page 18 of the rules, 2nd column under 4. Fight Edge Battle says:

"A player must control at least one participating unit ot place cads in the edge battle."

So, if the attacking player has no characters AFTER the Edge Battle, then the defending player can actually resolve strikes, from what I can tell. If the attacking player loses all characters prior to the Edge Battle, then they cannot participate in the Edge Battle. Don't know that that really clears things up though…

 

 

It does if you think about it.

You have to have a unit in the battle to place cards in the Edge Battle.  Thus if all attackers are eliminated prior to the Edge Battle then the attacker would be able to place no cards in it and the defender would win by default.

Removing alll attackers via Fate cards however has no effect on winning or losing the Edge Battle (excluding added abilities) because the cards have already been placed in the Edge Battle.



#12 cleardave

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 12:38 AM

cpjolicoeur said:

How can you have an unopposed defender?  If the active player doesn't declar any attackers then there is no conflict and no way to even declare defenders and no edge battle?

 

This has nothing to do with the discussion, but I laughed so hard at the unintentional Return of the Jedi reference when I read …"there is no conflict…"

 

We should all agree, as a community, that whenever that situation arises, you have to say "there is no conflict" in your best Vader voice.  Sure, your opponent's will groan at how obvious the joke is, but you can't miss that chance.

It's like using Vader in X-Wing, and pulling some sweet move that puts you outside of your opponent's fire arc, but you still have a shot.  "I Have You Now!"



#13 Vaapad

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

This came up tonight in a game.  As LS, I attacked with a character with a damage capacity of 1.  My opponent, during the action window before declaring defenders, played the Force Choke event, killing my sole attacker.

At this point, can the DS player even declare a defender, with no attacking unit?  If so, I suppose DS will win edge by default (LS can't place edge cards).  Just not sure how the engagement will resolve at this point …

 


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#14 Aahzmandius_Karrde

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:39 AM

Vaapad said:

This came up tonight in a game.  As LS, I attacked with a character with a damage capacity of 1.  My opponent, during the action window before declaring defenders, played the Force Choke event, killing my sole attacker.

At this point, can the DS player even declare a defender, with no attacking unit?  If so, I suppose DS will win edge by default (LS can't place edge cards).  Just not sure how the engagement will resolve at this point …

 

I think the simple answer here is look at the flowchart.  There is no short circuit that requires there to be any remaning participating units before defenders are declared.  


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#15 gnomewerks

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:00 AM

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

I think the simple answer here is look at the flowchart.  There is no short circuit that requires there to be any remaning participating units before defenders are declared.  

 

Other than common sense? Once you actually reach the 'Declare Defenders' step, there isn't any participating unit to declare a defense against. So who or what are you defending? My vote is there is no defense to declare, so you won't have any participating units, and with that, there is no edge allowed.



#16 Vaapad

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

gnomewerks said:

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

 

I think the simple answer here is look at the flowchart.  There is no short circuit that requires there to be any remaning participating units before defenders are declared.  

 

 

 

Other than common sense? Once you actually reach the 'Declare Defenders' step, there isn't any participating unit to declare a defense against. So who or what are you defending? My vote is there is no defense to declare, so you won't have any participating units, and with that, there is no edge allowed.

Beyond that, if defenders were permitted (ie the strike doesnt just fizzle) but none were declared, the challenge would be unopposed and the LS would do 1 damage to the engaged objective…even though no one attacked?

 


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#17 Aahzmandius_Karrde

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

Vaapad said:

gnomewerks said:

 

Other than common sense? Once you actually reach the 'Declare Defenders' step, there isn't any participating unit to declare a defense against. So who or what are you defending? My vote is there is no defense to declare, so you won't have any participating units, and with that, there is no edge allowed.

 

 

Beyond that, if defenders were permitted (ie the strike doesnt just fizzle) but none were declared, the challenge would be unopposed and the LS would do 1 damage to the engaged objective…even though no one attacked?

 

Then this one lacks comon sense, nor is there any "intent" to stop the battle either.  Call it poor planning on the attackers side.  There's only two reason to even declare defenders at that point, tactics or targeted strike so it would be usefull to not have to worry about the one attacker to get these effects through.

It would not grant unopposed bonus, as the beginning of the second paragraph reads "If at least one attacking unit has survived…"


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#18 AUCodeMonkey

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:31 PM

In that case, there would be no surviving attackers. Can't do damage if there are no attackers burla



#19 alpha5099

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:32 AM

I'm sure there will be an official ruling on this at some point, but based on past precedents in other LCG's I'm fairly confident I know the answer. From the A Game of Thrones FAQ:

 

(3.33) No Characters in a Challenge

If, at any time after a challenge begins and attackers are declared, there are no participating characters in that challenge, the challenge ends immediately without resolution. 

I assume that Star Wars will follow the same model. If, prior to declaring defenders, all attacking characters are rendered non-participants -- they're killed, returned to hand, or removed from the challenge by other effects -- then the conflict immediately ends without resolution, and the attacker has used their opportunity to engage the declared objective.






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