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My Kessel Run lists


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#21 hothie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

DeadInkPen said:

 

That could work out. I would give that a run like that, then possibly another run using Vader + Concussion + Marksmanship, Backstabber, APx4.

I would open up with the target lock on the biggest threat, then the other action on marksmanship. This would give the biggest bang for that attack. Plus marksmanship could benefit Vader a bit more then other pilots as he has two actions to spend. Let me give you the math to back that up.

On the Attack Die:

You have a 4 of the sides are hits (3 normal, 1 critical), then 2 sides are blank, and 2 are focus. 

That means there is a 50% chance to hit at any given time. 37.5% of the time it will be normal, 12.5% it will be a cit. Both the blank and focus are each 25% chance.

With the Concussion Missiles and Marksmanship one of the four dice is a 100% gaurantee to hit. The other three dice are then also at a 75% chance to hit with a 25% chance per die to turn one foucs into either a crit or a normal hit. 

Compared to the Defense Die:

3 of the sides are eveade (37.5%), 2 sides are Focus (25%), and 3 sides are blank (37.5%). So if the target has a focus there is a 62.5% chance per die to evade. So statistacally it looks favorable to try using marksmanship along with the concussion missle on Vader. 

Hope that helps you out some.

 

 

OK, assume I'm facing a Rebel squad, where each fighter has shields. I plan on using the Missiles first combat round. Vader fires first on my side, so I'm shooting against fully-shielded ships. Crits won't matter much at all. I also plan on Vader being a target, so I'm hesitant to put another 3 points on him when I don't expect him to last long enough to make it worth it. Maybe you're right and he will last long enough to make marksmanship worth having. I dunno. I'll consider it, though.



#22 Duraham

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:49 PM

hothie said:

 

OK, assume I'm facing a Rebel squad, where each fighter has shields. I plan on using the Missiles first combat round. Vader fires first on my side, so I'm shooting against fully-shielded ships. Crits won't matter much at all. I also plan on Vader being a target, so I'm hesitant to put another 3 points on him when I don't expect him to last long enough to make it worth it. Maybe you're right and he will last long enough to make marksmanship worth having. I dunno. I'll consider it, though.

 

 

 

maybe swarm tactics on Vader, then have somebody else shoot at the target first to try and strip off some shields? no additional crits, but any naturally rolled crits would have a higher chance of getting in, rather then being absorbed by a shield



#23 ziggy2000

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 04:28 PM

Hey it was a fun match, and I really appreciated the opportunity. I don't know whether it was dumb luck or a little bit of skill that helped me hold on for so long. Unfortunately, as chronicled above, now you know where the weaknesses are, and can adjust! I made a real blunder with Dutch's ability that I later realized hurt me a lot. How many turns did I fly around with that target lock on a ship that I couldn't shoot at? Silly me, thinking I had to SPEND it, when at any time I could just acquire on a different target and use the ability to pass another target lock on.  That might have helped after the dice started to go cold…

And I have to pay closer attention to my maneuver dials…

Looking forward to next weekend!

 



#24 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

hothie said:

I have the opportunity to play in 3 Kessel Run tourneys, and after much debating, i think I've narrowed down what I am going to play. Although which list I play at which venue remains to be seen.

My Imperial build:

Darth Vader with Swarm Tactics, Mauler Mithel, Backstabber, APX3

The thought behind this one is to fly in 2 wings. The AP's will set up first, 2 in one wing, and 1 in the other. then i will see how my opponent reacts to this and sets up. Then I have the option of having my 2 wings look like this:

Vader, Mauler, AP and Backstabber, AP, AP

or this:

Vader, AP, AP and Mauler, Backstabber, AP

How I set them up will depend on what i think my opponent will be doing with his squad. Either way I provide a tough choice: does my opponent go after the juicy Vader target, hence getting stabbed in the back? or does he try to prevent getting stabbed in the back and leave vader alone? Either way, it should make for a fun game. :) I think wings of 3 TIEs can navigate asteroids much better than a giant swarm, especially with the opponent's ships in there as well, which is why I'm going for the 2 wings theory.



Wedge with R2F2 and Torps, Horton with Ion and torps, Dutch with Ion

I know, it's 3 ships, don't yell at me. Again I fly in 2 wings, Wedge and Dutch in one, and Horton in the other. While my opponent is busy taking shots at Wedge, Horton flanks with torps and Ion. Wedge uses his action for R2F2, while Dutch gives him a free target lock. This one is more of a fun squad, and I know it will also be a challenge to win with, but I like to be challenged.



Wedge with Swarm tactics and R2F2, Rookie pilotX2, Gold Pilot with Ion

This one is a variant of what Nick played against me in the Worlds Finals. the ships are the same, but the upgrades are a little different. Honestly, I think this is the best 4 ship Rebel combo, and it leaves room for customizable upgrades. I can play this as 2 wings or as one squadron, either way is fine. The trouble is my opponent will be focusing on Wedge, so he needs to be worth his points before he gets taken out.  I've played against this squad, i know how to beat it, as I'm sure all of you do too. But there is a reason Nick got to the Finals with it, as it is good against Rebel builds.

Well, there they are. No, I'm not playing the same squad I won with at Worlds. I'm trying different things to see how i do with them. I hope to get some practice in this weekend. See you in Kessel!

 

I super respect your insight into the game and your contributions to my posts.

I played the Rebel four build list tonight (as listed above) - really laid a beat down on the imperials - lost Wedge early, and a few shields on my other ships thats it, killed five before opponent called it quits. 

Here is my thought though.  What about taking Luke (swarm and R2F2), Rookie x2, and Gold Pilot with Ion, and R5K6.   Or taking R2D2 on the Y-wing.

Thoughts.



#25 hothie

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:00 AM

Luke is definitely more defensive, so he would last a lot longer, possibly not even be killed with R2F2 onboard. I'll play around with it. I give up Wedge's firepower and skill level, but it might be worth it to not lose a ship in 75 mins.



#26 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:16 AM

I was thinking the same thing.  Wedge will be a target so killed within a 2 turn spread (likely turns 2-3) - so it the grand scheme of things you will be firing far less dice with wedge then Luke.  Yes, you give up your nine skill - so your going after a few ships of the imperials, most likely, but being harder to kill they might spread their shots around rather then focus on a single model, such as Wedge.  I think Luke has the ability to keep the swarm tactics in play longer (when I lost Wedge early I was shooting after the big boys anyways).  My strategy, collaspe the swarm tactics chain of command, then its easy pickings.



#27 hothie

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

Earlier I was trying to play the 100 pt vs 99 pt vs 98 pt game for initiative. My game against Ziggy2000 kind of drove home the fact that games last 75 minutes this weekend. And whoever has the most amount of points still alive at the end is the winner. And due to the "same skill level gets to attack before they die" rule, I'm thinking initiative only matters when maneuvering. Now, some of you may claim that to be a big deal due to the collisions and actions and such, and I can hear that argument. But ya know, I think I'm going with 100 pt squads anyway. So, how about this for a 4-ship rebel build?

Luke with R2F2, Gold w Ion, 2X Rookie Pilot, one with Proton torps.

Luke is much harder to kill in 75 minutes, you got Ion cannon, torps, and 0 synergy, so there's no restrictions on how I fly them.

 

My 3 ship fun build:

Wedge with R2F2 and Torps, Horton with Ion, Proton Torps, and R2 Astromech, and Dutch with Ion and R2 Astromech

Yeah, I like that better with the Astromechs on there.

 

My Imperial build:

Vader with Concussion Missiles and Marksmanship, Backstabber, APX4

Still flying in 2 waves, I think. Still get to see how my opponent sets up before I set up Backstabber and Vader. Those 2 make a nice 1-2 punch.

 



#28 ziggy2000

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:17 PM

That Imperial build would certainly make me pay more attention to Vader than I did in our match last night.

The Rebel build looks pretty solid too, I'm sorry we didn't have time to get to it after our slugfest. I'm probably going to tweak the Biggs/Dutch build in much the same direction.

Your "fun build" is very similar to one I was thinking about - I'm glad you've "green lighted" the R2 unit on the Y-wings! complice

 



#29 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:27 PM

What about adding in my build the R5K6 droid.

 

Luke - swarm, R2F2

Rookie

Rookie

Gold Sq. - Ion, R5K6

or

Luke - R2F2, Protons

Rookie

Rookie

Gold Sq. - Ion

or

Luke - swarm, R2F2

Rookie - R5

Rookie - R5

Gold Sq. - Ion



#30 dvang

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:39 PM

Here's the Rebel list I'm considering taking:

 

Wedge w/R2F2

Garven

2x Rookies

R2F2 gives Wedge some extra durability to last longer.

Garven can give a focus to whomever needs some extra defense (including Wedge) or firepower (except Wedge since he shoots first).

Also, Garven acts as an additional target besides Wedge.



#31 ziggy2000

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:59 PM

Theterrainstudio said:

 

What about adding in my build the R5K6 droid.

 

Luke - swarm, R2F2

Rookie

Rookie

Gold Sq. - Ion, R5K6

or

Luke - R2F2, Protons

Rookie

Rookie

Gold Sq. - Ion

or

Luke - swarm, R2F2

Rookie - R5

Rookie - R5

Gold Sq. - Ion

 

 

I like R5-K6, especially with Dutch, as the droid also triggers his ability. On a generic Y-Wing, consider the R2 Astromech. Look what it does to the maneuver dial. Plus it would give you one more point to put R2-D2 on Luke, if you wish. Or give you a 99 point squadron to try for initiative.

The generic R5 is too situational for me.

Good luck!

 



#32 hothie

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:54 PM

I put proton torps on one of the rookies because Luke will need his action for R2F2, so he won't be able to target lock. In my fun build, torps work on Wedge because of Dutch giving him a free target lock.



#33 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:14 AM

Finally just something people might hate…but what the heck I think there is something here (yes I know it has no ion cannon)

Luke Skywalker + R2-F2

Red Pilot (23)

Red Pilot (23)

"Dutch" Vander + R5-K6 (25)

or

Luke Skywalker + R2-F2

Red Pilot (23)

Red Pilot (23)

Gold + R5-K6 + ion cannon

or

Wedge + R2-F2

Rookie Pilot (21)

Rookie Pilot (21)

"Dutch" Vander + R5-K6 (25)

or

Wedge Antilles + R5-K6 (31)

Biggs Darklighter (25)

Rookie Pilot (21)

Gold Squadron Pilot + Ion Cannon Turret (23)

or

Luke Skywalker + R2-F2 + Swarm Tactics (33)

Rookie Pilot (21)

Rookie Pilot (21)

"Dutch" Vander + R5-K6 (25)



#34 dvang

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:22 AM

Two attack dice vs three defense just isn't good odds.  While still using only 2 attack dice, the ion cannon brings enough benefit with 360 degree targeting and the ion effect to even things out.  While I think a Y-wing without an ion cannon could work, I personally would use it as a proton torpedo carrier in that case.



#35 Hrathen

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:40 AM

I think 3 ship Rebel lists can work.  You just have to make sure that the three pilots you have are really worth the cost of having one less ship.  I think The Wedge, Dutch, Horton List could be it.

I have never used Horton yet.  But I like him.  I just like Wedge too much to not take him and then I have used up a lot of points.


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#36 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:56 AM

dvang said:

Two attack dice vs three defense just isn't good odds.  While still using only 2 attack dice, the ion cannon brings enough benefit with 360 degree targeting and the ion effect to even things out.  While I think a Y-wing without an ion cannon could work, I personally would use it as a proton torpedo carrier in that case.

Ion cannon is three dice. (c:

I'm willing to go as far as saying that, if you're playing to win, you shouldn't ever send a Y-wing out without an ion cannon. It's an approach that combines the offensive power of a generic TIE fighter with the agility and maneuverability of an elderly Hutt. Your opponents are fairly safe just ignoring it, or they can focus fire on it to pick up an easy kill.

The only thing that rescues the Y-wing is the 3-die turret. Now you don't have to maneuver, you just have to approach, which the Y-wing can manage much more easily. While you won't do much more damage than you would with your primary, you're substantially more likely to actually hit, and you have the additional benefit of locking down the target's movement.

Plus they're only 23 points, which is a bargain in a Rebel list. The only thing cheaper is a Rookie Pilot with no upgrades--which isn't to degrade the Rookie's usefulness, but including one Y-wing does a lot for the available tactical options in your list.

@Hrathen: I'm not at all convinced that 3-ship Rebel lists can work. I don't have good notes on all of our matches, but I think 3-ship Rebels are 1-10 at the moment in my local group. That probably qualifies them to give coaching advice to the Detroit Lions or the NY Mets, but I'm not interested in playing them in a competitive setting.



#37 hothie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:36 AM

Hrathen said:

I think 3 ship Rebel lists can work.  You just have to make sure that the three pilots you have are really worth the cost of having one less ship.  I think The Wedge, Dutch, Horton List could be it.

I have never used Horton yet.  But I like him.  I just like Wedge too much to not take him and then I have used up a lot of points.

I'll try it out this weekend and see how I do. Who knows? I'll post tourney updates in the battle Reports section if i get a chance.






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