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#21 FieserMoep

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

Zappiel said:

[…]it's always an arms race with wh40k, it seems - the next big thing is always better than what came before…… :(

Well, as long as there is a Codex Entry about the Unit, yes, it is always an arms race. Remember, all the Fluff is made to suit a Tabletop game that is about total war.^^ Though there is no Codex about the Adeptus Custodes they are OP for the simple fact that they are the Emperors Legion. They are the Fluff Barrier that makes Terra a fortress nobody can hope to assault. If you read the codex of the races, everyone has some kind of super power and in counterbalance every race needs something to be save against other empires super powers. In the case of the Imperium its the defensive forces of the Segmentum Sol and more important the Adeptus Custodes on Terra.



#22 Gurkhal

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:43 AM

herichimo said:

Zappiel said:

Crisaron:  erm, from what i understand, only one continent of Cadia was taken by Chaos in the last Black Crusade, and the Imperium still rules space.  Just sayin' :)

And without constant resupply, and orbital superiority, the chaos forces on Cadia wouldn't have lasted a year or two, at best. They would have been hunted down and exterminated.

The giant turn around by Battlefleet Gothic in the later part of the 13th Black Crusade was why Chaos still ultimately lost. The old addage, "You can win the battles but still lose the war," still rings true. Without control of space all the chaos victories and holdings in the Gothic sector were all seperated, with no resupply, and left to their own devices. Allowing the Imperium to take them back, at their leisure, one battlefront at a time.

this is incorrect. While it is true that the imperials control space its no walkover. And to re-take the worlds lost, chaos holds all except for a single continent on cadia, new troops must be raised and fleets kept in operation. These resources exist but taking them will strip the defense against other threats and allow them to win ground. The black crusade was a disaster for the imperium, and a victory for chaos.

#23 crisaron

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:27 AM

That ground must be so defiled anyway that it's lost for ever… and Cadian was a guarison fortress world… there must be plenty of resources there to last for a long long war…

 

Come and take it! ;)



#24 computertrucker

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:06 AM

Overconfident Humans make me laugh. An ancient Empire is awakening across the Galaxy that is far more powerful than the pethetic forces that guard a corpse sitting on a golden baby chair.

LOL sorry I had to add that.

I however do believe that The Necrons will one day fully awaken and when they do. The Emperium and even Tera shall fall to their might.



#25 FieserMoep

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:25 AM

computertrucker said:

I however do believe that The Necrons will one day fully awaken and when they do. The Emperium and even Tera shall fall to their might.

In fact they are awaken and have been codex-raped just like some other armies. I liked the Necrons when they were mindless killing machines, now they are pussys made of metal.

Back in the good old days there were several "ultimate" Weapons/Tools/Events every race had and that would allow it ultimate power, though they were in balance for each other. The awakening of the necrons was one of this events. To prevent them to break the fluff they "humanized" the Necrons and made them a laughable mess.



#26 herichimo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

Gurkhal said:

this is incorrect. While it is true that the imperials control space its no walkover. And to re-take the worlds lost, chaos holds all except for a single continent on cadia, new troops must be raised and fleets kept in operation. These resources exist but taking them will strip the defense against other threats and allow them to win ground. The black crusade was a disaster for the imperium, and a victory for chaos.

 

Well then, explain to us all where chaos was getting its ammunition. Where was the fuel for all their vehicles coming from? Who was repairing or delivering fresh vehicles when they got damaged or destroyed? Where were all the chaos forces getting their food (I don't think the Khorne berserker was putting up a farm for his lovely cultist fellows). How did the chaos forces repell or resist Imperial air and space superiority (kind of hard to amass troops when a couple of lance strikes or bombing runs can waste them all, dispersed troops are less effective troops)? How did the chaos forces gain ground in other places when they had no way off the planet they landed on (no space ships = no space travel)?

The infrastructure needed to run and up-keep an army are immense. When the Gothic fleet finally amassed and began winning (meaning destroying ships or forcing them to retreat out of the combat sector) the infrastructure of the invading forces (invading forces have to bring their own infrastructure with them, in this case on space craft) went away with it. The Imperium may not have been able to beat all the enemy forces on ground immediately, but without supply or transport the enemy wasn't going to do anything but degrade over time. The Imperials are also not about to leave their infrastructure for their enemy, a basic rule of warfare: if you're being overun or you are retreating destroy or render un-usable anything to large to carry with you which your enemies may benefit from.

You state, "taking them will strip the defense against other threats and allow them to win ground." What exactly do you think happened? The Tau were on the cusp of a major Imperial advance which would have wiped them out, it is the Tyranids and 13th Black Crusade which saved them. As the Imperium redirected many of the resources being used to counter the Tau and those they might have used to destroy them to the sectors with the more significant threats. In the absence of the continued Imperial power the Tau advanced with their 3rd phase expansion.

It seems careful and logical analysis of the situations supports what I stated is indeed the practically assured outcome. (oh boy here comes the: "its sci-fi hooptawhoop so logic doesn't matter" argument. Well to counter that, if anything can happen because of lack of logic, then there is nothing, absolutely nothing, which states your illogical assessment is more true than my logical one. As all arguments are equally valid under this assumption, there is no way to know which one truly occoured unless we bring in another method, say for instance: logic. When we do that, though, the illogical argument, which requried the illogical = just as true as logic to be true, is no longer true.)  No military force in its right mind would allow enemies to remain behind their lines, they would have been excised, and very quickly at that (at least the ones on Cadia).



#27 Gurkhal

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:57 AM

herichimo said:

Well then, explain to us all where chaos was getting its ammunition. Where was the fuel for all their vehicles coming from? Who was repairing or delivering fresh vehicles when they got damaged or destroyed? Where were all the chaos forces getting their food (I don't think the Khorne berserker was putting up a farm for his lovely cultist fellows). How did the chaos forces repell or resist Imperial air and space superiority (kind of hard to amass troops when a couple of lance strikes or bombing runs can waste them all, dispersed troops are less effective troops)? How did the chaos forces gain ground in other places when they had no way off the planet they landed on (no space ships = no space travel)?

I would presume that there are both some degree of supplies already present on Caida, that some degrees of supplies have been captured from the Imperials and that there are some degree of works that have been captured reasonably intact so that they can be repaired to provide for the Chaos forces.

Also as the Chaos invasion is a rather big one I would assume that they carried some degree of surface-to-air weaponry with them in case that the Imperials did indeed sent air forces against them. Orbital weaponry is a bit harder of course and will probably prevent the Chaos forces from directly overruning remaining Imperial forces in the direct future.

The forces of Chaos rather simply gained ground by going with space ships and landing on new planets. What did you expect? As you said yourself it wasn't untill the end that the Imperial fleet got an advantage and by then the forces of Chaos had made gains in several places as well as Typhous had made himself a nice new daemon world. But I know you already knew about this.

herichimo said:

The infrastructure needed to run and up-keep an army are immense. When the Gothic fleet finally amassed and began winning (meaning destroying ships or forcing them to retreat out of the combat sector) the infrastructure of the invading forces (invading forces have to bring their own infrastructure with them, in this case on space craft) went away with it. The Imperium may not have been able to beat all the enemy forces on ground immediately, but without supply or transport the enemy wasn't going to do anything but degrade over time. The Imperials are also not about to leave their infrastructure for their enemy, a basic rule of warfare: if you're being overun or you are retreating destroy or render un-usable anything to large to carry with you which your enemies may benefit from.

I am well aware of the infrastructure beind a large army. thank you. But for the Imperials to uphold the blockade of the Chaos forces a significent they must keep their fleets right there, while at the same time giving a freebie to other enemies. Simply the Imperials must either go for the Chaos forces now or retreat with the bulk of their fleet as it will be needed in other places. That's the ***** with fighting on several fronts at the same time.

herichimo said:

You state, "taking them will strip the defense against other threats and allow them to win ground." What exactly do you think happened? The Tau were on the cusp of a major Imperial advance which would have wiped them out, it is the Tyranids and 13th Black Crusade which saved them. As the Imperium redirected many of the resources being used to counter the Tau and those they might have used to destroy them to the sectors with the more significant threats. In the absence of the continued Imperial power the Tau advanced with their 3rd phase expansion.

So we know both what happens when the Imperials concentrate all their forces agains one enemy? Then I assume you also know that a concentration like that can't be upheld for any longer degree of time.



#28 FieserMoep

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:42 AM

Well, I do not think the Imperium has that much of fear for the Chaos infested continents on Cadia.

There are two ways the Imperium handels its enemies.

1. The enemy can be beaten, this might take some years but this war can be won. Who cares how many imperial guardsmen might die, thats what they are born for.

2. The enemy can not be beaten, this might be because of to less troops or another threat that must be engaged. In this case Exterminatus is imminent though in this particular case where the Imperium has still a foothold this would lead to lance-striking the enemy down.

The imperium would accept no chaos foothold in his main defense perimeter as long as it can not control it. They have the space superiority, the defeat of the cut-off chaos forces on ground is only a matter of time.



#29 herichimo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:20 AM


 Gurkhal said:



 


I would presume that there are both some degree of supplies already present on Caida, that some degrees of supplies have been captured from the Imperials and that there are some degree of works that have been captured reasonably intact so that they can be repaired to provide for the Chaos forces.


 


 


I've said it already, but it must need repeating. So take it from a military veteran. WHEN YOU ARE BEING OVERAN OR RETREATING YOU DESTROY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING YOUR ENEMY CAN USE WHICH YOU CAN NOT TAKE WITH YOU. No self-respecting army is going to leave a stockpile of ammo, vehicles, or even food their enemy can use against them. 10 sticks of C-4 (or 40k equivalent) place in the depot and viola no more ammo, and took less than 5-10 minutes, an amount of time base defenders can most likely stall for. Same thing for factories etc. Scorched earth brother, leave nothing for your enemy.


Gurkhal said:



 


Also as the Chaos invasion is a rather big one I would assume that they carried some degree of surface-to-air weaponry with them in case that the Imperials did indeed sent air forces against them. Orbital weaponry is a bit harder of course and will probably prevent the Chaos forces from directly overruning remaining Imperial forces in the direct future.


 


 


Maybe, but unlikely. We all know the typical degree of pre-mission planning in most chaos missions. Besides, they had their fleets there, which handled air to air supperiority. In fact, until the Imperial forces rebounded after the chaos fleet split up to go hound and dilute their forces all over the sector they held space/air supperiority over every major battlezone with their fleet, they didn't need ground based forces. When their fleet was forced to flee their airpower went with it.




The forces of Chaos rather simply gained ground by going with space ships and landing on new planets. What did you expect? As you said yourself it wasn't untill the end that the Imperial fleet got an advantage and by then the forces of Chaos had made gains in several places as well as Typhous had made himself a nice new daemon world. But I know you already knew about this.



And see what good it did them, it took men, materials, and ships away from the main battle areas and gave the imperial fleet many easy targets to engage. The chaos fleet was too powerful to be taken on with the Imperial fleet until the chaos fleet did this. Afterwards the consolidated Imperial fleet went around and destroyed one or two ships in numerous systems, slowly but surely reversing the numbers issue.




I am well aware of the infrastructure beind a large army. thank you. But for the Imperials to uphold the blockade of the Chaos forces a significent they must keep their fleets right there, while at the same time giving a freebie to other enemies. Simply the Imperials must either go for the Chaos forces now or retreat with the bulk of their fleet as it will be needed in other places. That's the ***** with fighting on several fronts at the same time.



Perhaps you are, too bad it seems you don't understand the tactical and strategic situation. The chaos fleet was broken, spread too thinly and the groups of one or two chaos ships were being systematically picked apart by larger imperial fleets. The Imperium didn't need a blockade, they were hunting. With enemy forces routed and unable to return to pick a fight, a single ship is more than enough in most cases to gain air/space superiority over a planet with ongoing fighting like Cadia at this point. Being a galactic government the Imperium would not simply vacate all their resources from every other fight to engage one enemy. They needed reinforcing along a few fronts therefore others lost some of their combat strength to provide it. The weakened fronts weren't helpless, but didn't have the same power as they did so operations were likely scaled down to sustainable levels based on their lower combat capabilities.




So we know both what happens when the Imperials concentrate all their forces agains one enemy? Then I assume you also know that a concentration like that can't be upheld for any longer degree of time.



In the Imperium? Yes it can. The imperium's weaknesses do not include maintaining supplies or supply chains, its creating the supply chains. Once all the pieces are in place the Imperium can keep things going for a while. This is moot anyways, again, the chaos fleet was broken, after a short time hunting and destroying major enemy hold-outs, the typical Gothic fleet is all thats needed to continue hunting down the last stragglers when they show up, as well as support any major Guard operation to retake planets.


Anyways, if you still don't believe this ex-military intelligence specialist who spent 10 years analysing just such socio-military-political situations then nothing will, so this is all I'm going to visit upon this thread.


 



#30 herichimo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:23 AM

Damn stupid board code…



#31 Gurkhal

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

herichimo said:

I've said it already, but it must need repeating. So take it from a military veteran. WHEN YOU ARE BEING OVERAN OR RETREATING YOU DESTROY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING YOUR ENEMY CAN USE WHICH YOU CAN NOT TAKE WITH YOU. No self-respecting army is going to leave a stockpile of ammo, vehicles, or even food their enemy can use against them. 10 sticks of C-4 (or 40k equivalent) place in the depot and viola no more ammo, and took less than 5-10 minutes, an amount of time base defenders can most likely stall for. Same thing for factories etc. Scorched earth brother, leave nothing for your enemy.

 

I heard you the first time. But as historical experience has shown its, to my knowledge, not often that such things are 100% when its on a world war size and I kind of assume that the Chaos forces brought down supplies for themselves to the surface which would constitute the majority of the supplies that they have present.

herichimo said:

Maybe, but unlikely. We all know the typical degree of pre-mission planning in most chaos missions. Besides, they had their fleets there, which handled air to air supperiority. In fact, until the Imperial forces rebounded after the chaos fleet split up to go hound and dilute their forces all over the sector they held space/air supperiority over every major battlezone with their fleet, they didn't need ground based forces. When their fleet was forced to flee their airpower went with it.

We do? I'd say its very different between warbands and that the Chaos Space Marines, who most likely leads the operations, probably have a fairly good organization of the operations. Maybe not Imperial style but enough to make things work and not forget obvious things. And I still think that the Chaos forces, or at the least the Chaos Space Marines and the Traitor Guard formations brought gear for all manner of different uses with them, including surface-to-air weaponry in case local air superiority would not be there or something would go wrong.

herichimo said:

And see what good it did them, it took men, materials, and ships away from the main battle areas and gave the imperial fleet many easy targets to engage. The chaos fleet was too powerful to be taken on with the Imperial fleet until the chaos fleet did this. Afterwards the consolidated Imperial fleet went around and destroyed one or two ships in numerous systems, slowly but surely reversing the numbers issue.

That's not how I read it. I read it that the Chaos fleet was initially too strong for the local Imperial fleet and given how much territory the Chaos followers captured I'd say that the Imperium has more problems than just Cadia. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense for GW to go on and proclaim the Chaos side as victorious.

herichimo said:

Perhaps you are, too bad it seems you don't understand the tactical and strategic situation. The chaos fleet was broken, spread too thinly and the groups of one or two chaos ships were being systematically picked apart by larger imperial fleets. The Imperium didn't need a blockade, they were hunting. With enemy forces routed and unable to return to pick a fight, a single ship is more than enough in most cases to gain air/space superiority over a planet with ongoing fighting like Cadia at this point. Being a galactic government the Imperium would not simply vacate all their resources from every other fight to engage one enemy. They needed reinforcing along a few fronts therefore others lost some of their combat strength to provide it. The weakened fronts weren't helpless, but didn't have the same power as they did so operations were likely scaled down to sustainable levels based on their lower combat capabilities.

Maybe but most likley not. And of course the Imperium was not stripped bare, but they did pull all they could into the protecting Cadia and surrounding sectors, and it has shown that they are weakened as the Tau expansion shows. And what the Tyranids, Necrons, Orks etc. were doing is pretty obvious when there's a lesser Imperial presence to face them down, and which will lead to even harder wars for the Imperium unless they are stopped fairly soon.

herichimo said:

In the Imperium? Yes it can. The imperium's weaknesses do not include maintaining supplies or supply chains, its creating the supply chains. Once all the pieces are in place the Imperium can keep things going for a while. This is moot anyways, again, the chaos fleet was broken, after a short time hunting and destroying major enemy hold-outs, the typical Gothic fleet is all thats needed to continue hunting down the last stragglers when they show up, as well as support any major Guard operation to retake planets.

And where are these Guard troops going to be taken from? And who is guarding the Gothic Sector while its fleet is away at Cadia? Once again the Imperium must leave an entire sector undefended from space, more or less, to re-take what they have lost, and which may indeed already be to corrupt to be re-taken, and which could well open to way for more enemies to enter the backdoor.

herichimo said:

Anyways, if you still don't believe this ex-military intelligence specialist who spent 10 years analysing just such socio-military-political situations then nothing will, so this is all I'm going to visit upon this thread.

 

This is the internet. Everyone is professor, expert, war veteran etc. What authority that you claim to possess has little relevance for me as there is no way for you or me to verify it or prove it.



#32 Zappiel

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:04 AM

so…wait…we're fighting about who won the 13th Black Crusade?  Easy fix:  it was a tie!  Chaos got driven back, but they finally broke into Cadia…doubtless the Chaos stragglers will be hunted down (after causing much mayhem and misery), but Cadia will never be the same….the End Times indeed……



#33 FieserMoep

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:47 AM

In fact Chaos is one of the most laughable enemies of the Imperium ATM though it should be the Archenemy.

The victories Chaos achieves are a side notice if you compare them to the sucess of the tyranids, orks or necrons.^^

Mabye only the Tau are more inferior though they achieve sucessfull expansion.xD



#34 computertrucker

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

FieserMoep said:

computertrucker said:

I however do believe that The Necrons will one day fully awaken and when they do. The Emperium and even Tera shall fall to their might.

 

In fact they are awaken and have been codex-raped just like some other armies. I liked the Necrons when they were mindless killing machines, now they are pussys made of metal.

Back in the good old days there were several "ultimate" Weapons/Tools/Events every race had and that would allow it ultimate power, though they were in balance for each other. The awakening of the necrons was one of this events. To prevent them to break the fluff they "humanized" the Necrons and made them a laughable mess.

Actually They have not all fully awakened, The Awakening has been going on for several mellinnia, however it did not go as planned and has been patchy at best. There are still possibly thousands if not millions of Tomb worlds that could still be slumbering. Not to mention Crown Worlds still to be awakened.

 Personally I like the New Codex. It gives the Necrons Character.. Before we pretty much had only Necron Warriors which were the soulless mindless killing machines. We still have that. However now we have much more depth and history. Before the Necrons were more mystery, now they are becomming known.

and yes they have the power even now to wipe Tera/Earth out. One tomb World Alone could all but destroy Tera and its entire Solar system with out so much as an invasion. The Tomb World of Thanatos holds the Celestial Orrery which has the power to cause any star in the galaxy to go supernova.

As far as a Regular Invasion Fleet. If the Necron Lords were to ever truly Unite.. Which is something that could still very well actually happen. Tera would not stand a chance.



#35 Gurkhal

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:17 PM

computertrucker said:

FieserMoep said:

 

computertrucker said:

I however do believe that The Necrons will one day fully awaken and when they do. The Emperium and even Tera shall fall to their might.

 

In fact they are awaken and have been codex-raped just like some other armies. I liked the Necrons when they were mindless killing machines, now they are pussys made of metal.

Back in the good old days there were several "ultimate" Weapons/Tools/Events every race had and that would allow it ultimate power, though they were in balance for each other. The awakening of the necrons was one of this events. To prevent them to break the fluff they "humanized" the Necrons and made them a laughable mess.

 

 

Actually They have not all fully awakened, The Awakening has been going on for several mellinnia, however it did not go as planned and has been patchy at best. There are still possibly thousands if not millions of Tomb worlds that could still be slumbering. Not to mention Crown Worlds still to be awakened.

 Personally I like the New Codex. It gives the Necrons Character.. Before we pretty much had only Necron Warriors which were the soulless mindless killing machines. We still have that. However now we have much more depth and history. Before the Necrons were more mystery, now they are becomming known.

and yes they have the power even now to wipe Tera/Earth out. One tomb World Alone could all but destroy Tera and its entire Solar system with out so much as an invasion. The Tomb World of Thanatos holds the Celestial Orrery which has the power to cause any star in the galaxy to go supernova.

As far as a Regular Invasion Fleet. If the Necron Lords were to ever truly Unite.. Which is something that could still very well actually happen. Tera would not stand a chance.

I kind of agree about the Necrons with you. The new Necrons are much more interesting, at least for me, than the old ones and I can see how they can actually be used in my games.

In regards to Chaos, Chaos isn't an enemy like other enemies because its essentially not fighting a convential war but a spiritual war against the Imperium. To that they have the ability to take part and project force anywhere in the galaxy, but I kind of agree that the Tyranids and Necrons are actually made out a bit to powerful for a setting to fall entirely into my taste.



#36 FieserMoep

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

And this is why I speak of "Codex-****". Old super weapons are replaced by new ones and this turns WH40k in a Cold War Scenario that leads itself into nonsense. For example the Necrons recieved their fancy new tools, but as a counter measure the Grey Knights guard the terminus decree which is very likely the key to awaken the emperor himself, a beeing that could possibly become a god and kill anything that tries to attack Terra. Not to speak of a specific grey knights that walks on the planes of warp, ****** bloodthirsters in their own home and fisting some daemon-primarchs.

And with the Necrons as the Archenemy of every living thing, and therefore the warp, Chaos is pretty much on the lower end of the food of chain. Just have a look at the tyranids, the big badass enemies of the 5th edition. They eat nearly everthing. The Orcs can not be defeated, there are just to many of them. Even the Tau celebrate their sucessfull expansion while the Eldar do nothing else than trickery, just like always. And Chaos? They recieve a minor victory, a foot hold that is very likely to be lost, some more potent enemies and a few new daemon worlds… wow… every notable chaos stronghold is guarded by warp… becaus chaos is always driven back… realy intimidating for the archenemy of mankind… and in the meantime the hive fleets just destroy the half of the galaxy and can only be driven back by horrendus losses… and guess what? The hive mind does not even care about that…



#37 computertrucker

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

I sense resentment and disdain in your post?

Are you upset about a supposed CODEX Rapewriting? Or are you upset that Chaos is not the biggest threat in the Galaxy? The forces of Chaos by their very nature will never be that big of a threat. They are constantly warring with each other. They barbaric Brigands and Ruffians. Pillagers that at times spill out into Realspace to Cause Havoc and well Chaos.

In the end though. They have been defeated, and left wanting. Sorry if this upsets you. The truth may sting but it will also set you free.



#38 FieserMoep

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:28 PM

I just remember the god old days when not every codex tries to beat another one by adding more and more absurd over-kill. I have no problem with the situation of chaos, I have a problem with the meta-balance of the different species. And with that I do not mean their balance in terms of a tabletop game but in terms of fluff. GW marketing has a goal, and that goal is selling miniatures and codizes. How do they achieve that? They regulalry release a new edition and release new codizes. And every ****** ne codex is a conglomerate of overpowered badassdom that erases exisitng fluff in favor of some more awsome awsomeness. (Well, atleast they think it is) All the former grimdarkness has turned into a fashion show - who has the most fancy stuff now?

The problem I have with chaos is symptomatic for every major enemy. They are made so strong that they must include some stupid power limitation or, like the tyranids, they are so "strong" that they literaly chew through the imperium but then get always stopped and repelled because if not this would pretty much result in the end of the imperium (ye,ye with some horrible losses etc *sigh*), something that will never happen in a wargame without any story progress.



#39 computertrucker

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:20 AM

I look at in a way that they have expanded upon the tools and heroes that take part in the war. It would be like having a modern War game that gives players M1s, Combat Infantry, and Apaches.. yay thats neat.. However where is all the other stuff? Later expansions that add things like CAV Scouts, Bradly's Kiowa Warriors, BlackHawks and maybe rules for deep insertions. and an artillery piece.Shiney new things that during the initial writing of the game they didnt have time or resources to put in. All these things cost money to produce, and play testing. However if you play those things. You want to see it expanded. Same is true for 40K.

You always hear about CODEX creep in 40k and fantasy, and yes there are some CODEX's that have a slightly harder time at some things. However Any Codex in the hands of a good player can win games.

If I had a gripe with GW and their design philosophy its this. I dont think they should come out with new Editions untill every Faction has recieved and had time to play with the faction they have.

Privateer Press definately has a better production philosophy on this.  GW also does take entirely to long to put out Codexes, which is one of the reaons there are some imbalances.

As for Fluff. Yes GW has been guilty of changing things up from time to time. Then again look at Star Wars.. Its done the same thing 8). You want continuety I would recommend looking at Warmachine.. They have been VERY true to their story and timeline.

 

 



#40 Cheddah

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:14 AM

I had the players of my Rogue Trader campaign stop by Holy Terra on buisiness recently and this was the standing force I described defending the Solar System:

Luna - Terra's Moon, converted into a super battlefortress. Has arrays of super macrocanons and nova canons and generally enough firepower to cut down a battlecruiser.

The Eternal Dominatus - Super Battlecruiser, one of three still in service in the imperium. So massive and ancient it churns the warp around it, making it difficult for opposing ships to warp into a system under it's watch.

Planetary Voidshields - Enough to weather a few rounds of bombardment.

Phase Shields - Protecting the Imperial Palace itself, all but indestructable to planetary bombardment.

10 Battleships

30 Heavy Cruisers

2 Imperial Fist Battle Barges

40 Cruisers

100 Raiders

Legions of Smaller Non-Warp Capable Ships - Count as hazards in space combat.




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