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Interaction of Lycanthropy with restrictive attack abilities(Knight/Chivalric Knight, etc)


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#21 darthmax

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:32 AM

Screw the rules, use common sense. The theory behind werewolves and the wolf man, as far back as the legend goes, is that a person bitten becomes a bloodthirsty uncontrollabe monster.  It shouldn't matter if its a knight or any other character.  Go with the flavor of what a werewolf really is



#22 danskmacabre

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:06 PM

 

Hi all,
Regarding the Knight and Lycanthropy thing, I would agree
those that are in the "the knight must attack even if a good player" camp.
Why?  well in a Roleplaying terms it makes more sense.
It's not like there's some magical force stopping him sttacking it's his morals that are doing that.
Seeing as he's a werewolf at that stage and out of control it makes sense to say he must attack.
 
However in the case of swapping Death on someone on the CoC it makes rules sense and Roleplaying sense that 
A: the rules state death can't be in the inner region as he's already there.
b: if it were an RPG and the Inner region were anotehr plane of existence, then it seems to me that a multidemensional being can't 
be in the same dimension more than once at a time.
 
Talisman is a mostly pretty simple game, but there's bound to be specific circumstances where the rules become not 100% clear and somewhat break down.
At this point you just need to make a call that makes sense to you the most.
Or just debate it out here!  :D
    


#23 Croonos

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:31 AM

 

Over the years, certain rules of the game were clarified (see latest FAQ). Maybe can vs cannnot change for ban/command? In other words, the forbidding (and ordering) effects of cards override other (special) abilities and effects. I think Knight being Lycan should attack good characters at night beacuse this effect override others. Otherwise main importance of this effect shall be denied.



#24 GrimGuvna

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:22 AM

Can vs. Cannot
 
In any instance where a card’s effect indicates that a character 
cannot perform an action or use an ability (such as casting a 
Spell or using an Object), the character cannot do so. In other 
words, the forbidding effects of cards override other abilities 
and effects. For example, if a card indicates that no Weapons 
can be used when fighting a certain creature, the Warrior may 
not use any Weapons, despite his ability that allows him to 
use two Weapons at the same time.
 
It would make perfect sense for the Knight to have to attack other good characters at knight and I argued exhaustively in that favor in this thread.
 
However this isn't an RPG and it has to have rules in concrete black and white.  the above rules text from the main rulebook have to stand until an official clarification amendment is made (if ever).
 
The Knights restriction on attacking other good characters is a Forbidding effect.  The Lycanthropy must attack directive is not a forbidding effect and therefore is overridden by the Knights forbidding effect.  In game terms I guess this preserves the knights game balance of power when he is enhance by the power of Lycanthropy.
 
In storytelling terms you have to assume that the knights powerful Moral creed shines through and he runs howling away to avoid committing such an atrocity.
 
This reasoning kinda falls flat when you consider he has to attack a character on the CoC but that directive is part of the same special ability paragraph and so is allowed to contradict the forbidding effect.  In storyterms i guess the knight feels compelled to battle the other good character so the crown doesnt fall into a more corruptable minds hands and be turned to evil.  The righteous cause becomes paramount.
 
hope it helps with the reasoning.


#25 sanityismyvanity

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:33 PM

Oh no, it's back, haha!

 

This would have been much easier if they had designed the Lycanthrope Card to be a Character Card, just like the Toad. If at Night it just replaced your normal Character with the Lycanthrope, you would lose your normal abilities at night and this whole question would easily be resolved. Unfortunately, it wasn't designed like that, oh well.



#26 Croonos

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:49 AM

Oh no, it's back, haha!

 

 Solving rules of the game is one of the favorite side of Talisman ;)



#27 DomaGB

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:44 PM

This reminds me of the Vampire Blade...


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#28 GrimGuvna

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 05:14 AM

I cant find anything in the forums reference a Vampire Blade.

 

What was that all about then?



#29 DomaGB

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 09:44 PM

LoL I was talking about the comic book/movie character Blade, the vampire. He was a Vampire who resisted the vampire curse to do harm, and did good instead.


RoboRally, then Talisman. That's the way it is... ;)


#30 MisterBean

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:27 AM

With this being my first post I do not wish to sound intrusive, but I do not believe can vs. cannot applies here. I believe that rule specifically addresses anything that is optional (can) versus anything that disallows that optional issue (cannot). The Chivalric Knight's ability is not optional, neither is the Lycanthrope's ability, with both being contradictive. From a lighter, roleplaying point of view, I would say the Lycanthrope's ability overrides the Chivalric Knight's. It's merely a moral choice not to attack (but the ability is "forced" so that players cannot play out of character), and I personally do not think morals are that strong as to affect your actions as a bloodthirsty Lycanthrope. From a stricter, rules point of view I would need an official explanation as I do not think the can vs. cannot rule applies here.






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