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#21 R5Don4

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:28 AM

Theterrainstudio said:

A few more questions.

Is there any point to running y-wings without ion cannons?

 

 

 

Because this is the general consensus, due largely to its delivery van like maneuver dial, your opponent may ignore it if you throw one in.  You can surprise them by having actually take something down.  Once your opponent is on to it and wants to take it down, it doesn't last long.


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#22 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:47 PM

lots of suggestions.

At this point I am somewhere near this.

 

Wedge

R2D2

Swarm Tactics

 

Rookie Pilot

 

Rookie Pilot

 

Gold Sq. Pilot

Ion Cannon



#23 Duraham

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:12 PM

you will have major problems if Wedge gets taken out, and Wedge WILL get taken out first. like I really do not expect to see him living past turn 3 at all. You might want to consider putting R2D2 on one of the random rookie Xwings instead.

 

 

on a side note, I came across this pretty interesting build somewhere else:

 

Luke + Biggs + Garven + rookie Xwing = 100 points

 

a bit of editing gives me:

Wedge with swarm tactics + gold Ywing with ionC + Biggs + rookie Xwing. keep Biggs with Wedge at all times, he will be your mini (or rather, giant) R2D2

 

EDIT: my earlier build left out an R5 astromech, it should be:

 

Luke + R2D2 + swarm tactics

rookie Xwing x2

gold Ywing +ionC + R5 astromech



#24 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

So if wedge is dieing right away, why would Luke or any other named pilot not die just as fast?

 

The 3 named pilot list is cool, but it lacks upgrades, or is that perhaps the best?



#25 Duraham

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

 Luke's ability makes him harder to hit. If the firefight is getting too fierce for you, you can pull away and heal with R2D2. Wedge doesn't have the same defensive ability, so when he gets hit hard and you try to pull him away for healing, he will get chased and plummeted and die quickly, compared to Luke who may survive intact or even get away with fully repaired shields



#26 Hrathen

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

 Some people have claimed that you never want a y-wing without Ion-turrets.  I thought that was true until I fought my brother-in-law tonight.  Dutch's ability to give Target Locks to his buddies makes him an awesome support ship.

He kept feeding Target Locks to Luke (who had R2D2) and like an idiot I kept trying to kill Luke.  Now admittedly Luke rolled really well and usually kept his damage down to a single hit per round which he immediately healed with a green move and R2D2.

But I have to say having a target lock and a Focus is really really good.  Dutch Vander pretty much gave that to a x-wing every turn.

 

Other thoughts:

I agree, for a competitive game you will want four Rebel ships or you will be swamped by Imperials.  5 TIEs is the minimum that you should expect to face.

Wedge is a murderer.  The reason why he will die fast is because if your opponent has fought him before he knows just how deadly he is.  

I am not really a big fan of the Luke R2D2 combo.  Yes he is really hard to kill, but a good opponent will ignore him and kill every one else first.  Luke isn't that hard to kill if he is outnumbered 3 to 1 by TIEs without any support.  I would like to point out that I lost my battle tonight, mostly because I forgot that a smart opponent will ignore Luke.  

Not to many people have mentioned Biggs.  And I have seen him used to protect Luke, but since smart TIEs want to ignore Luke and shoot down his wingman Biggs ability to draw fire isn't an advantage.  However Bigs with Wedge is a whole other matter.  Everyone wants to kill Wedge before he kills them, but if they have to shoot at Biggs then Wedge gets to kill that many more TIEs before you can focus fire on him.

 

My favorite list of named Rebels is

Wedge

Biggs

Dutch

 

Hoiw 


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#27 qwertyuiop

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Hrathen said:

 

 Some people have claimed that you never want a y-wing without Ion-turrets.  I thought that was true until I fought my brother-in-law tonight.  Dutch's ability to give Target Locks to his buddies makes him an awesome support ship.

He kept feeding Target Locks to Luke (who had R2D2) and like an idiot I kept trying to kill Luke.  Now admittedly Luke rolled really well and usually kept his damage down to a single hit per round which he immediately healed with a green move and R2D2.

But I have to say having a target lock and a Focus is really really good.  Dutch Vander pretty much gave that to a x-wing every turn.

 

 

 

I think the claim is directed more towards generic y-wings and Salm.  Generic y-wings simply aren't a threat without an ion cannon. Dutch is because he basically provides free actions. Free actions = good actions all day, every day, cannon or no. I love that people are finally playing with him.  Salm gets rerolls, yes, but he's too expensive to make use of them without torpedoes or a cannon.

 

Never shoot at Luke with R2D2 attached unless either of the following is true:

A) All other enemy pilots have been destroyed.

B) Luke is the only available target for a given pilot.

If you still have ship advantage after A is achieved, your opponent should concede…unless he's a tool, or just that good. (in a tournament game)



#28 ScottieATF

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:30 PM

qwertyuiop said:

Hrathen said:

 

 Some people have claimed that you never want a y-wing without Ion-turrets.  I thought that was true until I fought my brother-in-law tonight.  Dutch's ability to give Target Locks to his buddies makes him an awesome support ship.

He kept feeding Target Locks to Luke (who had R2D2) and like an idiot I kept trying to kill Luke.  Now admittedly Luke rolled really well and usually kept his damage down to a single hit per round which he immediately healed with a green move and R2D2.

But I have to say having a target lock and a Focus is really really good.  Dutch Vander pretty much gave that to a x-wing every turn.

 

 

 

I think the claim is directed more towards generic y-wings and Salm.  Generic y-wings simply aren't a threat without an ion cannon. Dutch is because he basically provides free actions. Free actions = good actions all day, every day, cannon or no. I love that people are finally playing with him.  Salm gets rerolls, yes, but he's too expensive to make use of them without torpedoes or a cannon.

 

Never shoot at Luke with R2D2 attached unless either of the following is true:

A) All other enemy pilots have been destroyed.

B) Luke is the only available target for a given pilot.

If you still have ship advantage after A is achieved, your opponent should concede…unless he's a tool, or just that good. (in a tournament game)

I question the bolded statement.  Luke with R2 is a third of a 100pt squadron.  He is particularly difficult to kill as well.  I would see no reason to concede that game unless the Imperial squadron was untouched.  I think it's really unreasonable to expect a concession with a third of a squadron still active, particularly in a tournament where Luke would out-point two TiEs (depending on pilots).  Based on how scoring works in tournaments concession is always a poor choice as forcing your opponenent into a Modified Match Win could allow you to place ahead of them in the end.  For example in a three round tournament if in the final round you have to Match Wins and your opponent has two Modified Match Wins, you'd take the tournament by fighting off the Match Win.



#29 ScottieATF

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:37 PM

Hrathen said:

 Some people have claimed that you never want a y-wing without Ion-turrets.  I thought that was true until I fought my brother-in-law tonight.  Dutch's ability to give Target Locks to his buddies makes him an awesome support ship.

He kept feeding Target Locks to Luke (who had R2D2) and like an idiot I kept trying to kill Luke.  Now admittedly Luke rolled really well and usually kept his damage down to a single hit per round which he immediately healed with a green move and R2D2.

But I have to say having a target lock and a Focus is really really good.  Dutch Vander pretty much gave that to a x-wing every turn.

 

Other thoughts:

I agree, for a competitive game you will want four Rebel ships or you will be swamped by Imperials.  5 TIEs is the minimum that you should expect to face.

Wedge is a murderer.  The reason why he will die fast is because if your opponent has fought him before he knows just how deadly he is.  

I am not really a big fan of the Luke R2D2 combo.  Yes he is really hard to kill, but a good opponent will ignore him and kill every one else first.  Luke isn't that hard to kill if he is outnumbered 3 to 1 by TIEs without any support.  I would like to point out that I lost my battle tonight, mostly because I forgot that a smart opponent will ignore Luke.  

Not to many people have mentioned Biggs.  And I have seen him used to protect Luke, but since smart TIEs want to ignore Luke and shoot down his wingman Biggs ability to draw fire isn't an advantage.  However Bigs with Wedge is a whole other matter.  Everyone wants to kill Wedge before he kills them, but if they have to shoot at Biggs then Wedge gets to kill that many more TIEs before you can focus fire on him.

 

My favorite list of named Rebels is

Wedge

Biggs

Dutch

 

Hoiw 

I somewhat agree that Dutch could be worth it Ion-less, but it is an iffy proposition.

But I disagree with needing 4 rebel ships to compete.  I have 25 games with the rebels, most using three ship builds, and have had a very good success rate (90%+) against Imp builds ranging from 5 up to 7 ships.  Included the Worlds winning build.  With three ships you have to use Biggs at this point to really play evenly to be honest though. 



#30 Duraham

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

ScottieATF said:

Never shoot at Luke with R2D2 attached unless either of the following is true:

A) All other enemy pilots have been destroyed.

B) Luke is the only available target for a given pilot.

If you still have ship advantage after A is achieved, your opponent should concede…unless he's a tool, or just that good. (in a tournament game)

 

 

I question the bolded statement.  Luke with R2 is a third of a 100pt squadron.  He is particularly difficult to kill as well.  I would see no reason to concede that game unless the Imperial squadron was untouched.  I think it's really unreasonable to expect a concession with a third of a squadron still active, particularly in a tournament where Luke would out-point two TiEs (depending on pilots).  Based on how scoring works in tournaments concession is always a poor choice as forcing your opponenent into a Modified Match Win could allow you to place ahead of them in the end.  For example in a three round tournament if in the final round you have to Match Wins and your opponent has two Modified Match Wins, you'd take the tournament by fighting off the Match Win.

 

assuming a single TIE against Luke with R2D2, as long as Luke permanently uses green maneuvers, the only way the TIE can do any nett damage is through rolling 2 hits and getting 0 evades or focus from Luke, and he must constantly maintain the damage exchange or at the very minimum deal nett 0 damage (meaning deal him 1 damage and have R2D2 heal back 1 shield = nett 0 damage). He could aim for a range 1 finish with 3 dice hits and some really unlucky 2 blank result from Luke, but if he fails to pull this off the moment he gets into range 1, on the very next turn the TIE will overshoot the Xwing as it's slowest maneuver is a forward 2 or hard left/right 1, so it could be within range 1 of the Xwing now and get shot down. Also, any turn that the TIE fails to deal any damage to Luke, he has to start all over again

 

tl;dr, the only way for the TIE to beat Luke with R2D2 on in a 1v1 situation is pretty much have the TIE player personally choose the dice results for both the TIE and for Luke for every single attempt. anything short of that kind of imba exceptional luck means that it is impossible for the TIE to take down Luke, and all it does is a few mistakes on the part of the TIE player to get within the firing arc of Luke, and he can slowly wither down the TIE until it dies



#31 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:17 AM

So now I really hate to ask.

 

Where do we stand with lists.  What are your top picks for lists given all this info I want to narrow down thoughts into lists - before I talk specific topics.  Btw, this thread has been very insightful and much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Shawn Morris



#32 Duraham

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:22 AM

Theterrainstudio said:

So now I really hate to ask.

 

Where do we stand with lists.  What are your top picks for lists given all this info I want to narrow down thoughts into lists - before I talk specific topics.  Btw, this thread has been very insightful and much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Shawn Morris

 

my current favourite for rebel has been, and still is, the :

 

Luke + R2D2 + swarm tactics (i am considering changing this to squad leader, especially if you are facing squads with lesser ships or another rebel lineup, to give your other 3 ships a lot more firepower)

rookie Xwing x2

Gold Ywing + ionC + R5 astromech



#33 Hrathen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:21 AM

Theterrainstudio said:

So now I really hate to ask.

 

Where do we stand with lists.  What are your top picks for lists given all this info I want to narrow down thoughts into lists - before I talk specific topics.  Btw, this thread has been very insightful and much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Shawn Morris

My personal Fave start with

Wedge and Dutch.

After that I usually add as many cheap ships as I can.  Preferably x-wings.  I usually give Dutch a Ion Cannon Turret.  Just because I will take him without one, doesn't mean he isn't good with one.


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#34 Duraham

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:32 AM

Hrathen said:

 

Theterrainstudio said:

 

So now I really hate to ask.

 

Where do we stand with lists.  What are your top picks for lists given all this info I want to narrow down thoughts into lists - before I talk specific topics.  Btw, this thread has been very insightful and much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Shawn Morris

 

 

My personal Fave start with

Wedge and Dutch.

After that I usually add as many cheap ships as I can.  Preferably x-wings.  I usually give Dutch a Ion Cannon Turret.  Just because I will take him without one, doesn't mean he isn't good with one.

 

 

something like: 

Wedge

Dutch empty

Biggs (or rookie Xwing + R2D2 anywhere)

gold Ywing + ionC

 

looks pretty funny, unsure if it will work or not XD that's if you want a 4 ship combo with both of them in. gave the ionC to gold Ywing instead to mess up your opponent's targeting priorities, so your dutch can expect to live for a bit longer

 

 

either that or:

Wedge + R5

Dutch + ion C

rookie Xwing x2



#35 Hrathen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:48 AM

So here is my final list:

Wedge + R5

Dutch Vander + Ion Cannon Turret

2 Rookie Pilots

I could consider trading the Ion Cannon Turret for a Proton Torpedo for Wedge, but I think the Ion Cannon is a better buy

 


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#36 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:31 AM

Taking into all what you have said about, why people will or will not shoot Wedge/Luke first.

Thoughts about a power house set-up

 

Wedge

- squad leader

- R2F2

 

Luke

- protons

- R2D2

 

Dutch

- ion cannon

- R5K6



#37 Tawnos

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:36 AM

My favorite lists thus far are as follows:

Rebel, 4 ship

  • Biggs, R2-F2
  • Wedge
  • Rookie x2

Imperial

TIE All-stars, (Squad Leader on Howlrunner, Determination on Mauler)



#38 Tawnos

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:39 AM

Theterrainstudio said:

Taking into all what you have said about, why people will or will not shoot Wedge/Luke first.

Thoughts about a power house set-up

 

Wedge

- marksmanship

- R2D2

 

Luke

- squad leader

- protons

- R5K6

 

Dutch

- ion cannon

 

This issue I see with this squad is that Luke's only valid target for Squad Leader is Dutch.  And given the R2-D2 on Wedge and, well…Luke, in my mind that makes Dutch a tasty 30-point priority.  And with no one to defend him, Dutch won't last long against a TIE swarm or Rebel torpedo barrage.



#39 Theterrainstudio

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:46 AM

Did a little rearrangement



#40 Hrathen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:03 AM

Theterrainstudio said:

Taking into all what you have said about, why people will or will not shoot Wedge/Luke first.

Thoughts about a power house set-up

 

Wedge

- squad leader

- R2F2

 

Luke

- protons

- R2D2

 

Dutch

- ion cannon

- R5K6

This is a pretty solid list, but R2D2 on Luke make a ship that is already hard to kill harder to kill.  Wedge and Dutch will attract all your enemies fire and Luke's (and R2D2's) abilities will be waisted.

You have three Different Droids, I don't have them all memorized, but that is a lot of points for them

If you want to go with three ships, giving Wedge Proton Torpedoes (especially if Dutch is around) is a good idea.


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