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Ligthning Claw always ready?


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#21 Kain McDogal

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:55 AM

Kasatka said:

Kain McDogal said:

 

The Players accompanied an Inquisitor while he opened negotiations between to warring nations without knowing that one party was infiltrated by Chaos. So the negotiations were only a trap to slay the investigating imperial authorities. The Librarian couldn't sense anything because of a psy-damper so the players where completley suprised and had to defend themselves in close quarters. Of course all weapons weren`t readied because the players didn't want to leave an hostile impression. The charachter in question concentrated all his actions on hitting the attacking Demons with his Bolter because he has a high BS and after the enemy got to close he opt to parry the attack and use his Counter Attack Talent, because he has an equally high WS but never bothered to improve his Dodge Skill.

Herichimo, here and then you leave some helpful marks in the forum, but most of the time you act very offensive telling people what they can't do and pointing out mistakes they only did in your eyes. Nothing against productive criticism but this forum isn't to alleviate stress you might have in real life!

 

 

I hope thath the character in question only had a single lightning claw as a pair of them would entirely prohibit the use of other weaponry. :P

 

Of course, although he tried once to requisition a Heavy Bolter in addition to his Lightning Claw and argued with me that he can use this two-handed weapon, because he only needs the Lightning Claw arm to stabilize the HB and can use the free hand to pull the trigger. This was the main reason we switchted to the alternate weapon stats and after the HB wasn't attractive enough anymore he took a Storm Bolter instead. He is a very combat orientated SM.



#22 Kasatka

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:55 AM

Kain McDogal said:

Kasatka said:

 

Kain McDogal said:

 

The Players accompanied an Inquisitor while he opened negotiations between to warring nations without knowing that one party was infiltrated by Chaos. So the negotiations were only a trap to slay the investigating imperial authorities. The Librarian couldn't sense anything because of a psy-damper so the players where completley suprised and had to defend themselves in close quarters. Of course all weapons weren`t readied because the players didn't want to leave an hostile impression. The charachter in question concentrated all his actions on hitting the attacking Demons with his Bolter because he has a high BS and after the enemy got to close he opt to parry the attack and use his Counter Attack Talent, because he has an equally high WS but never bothered to improve his Dodge Skill.

Herichimo, here and then you leave some helpful marks in the forum, but most of the time you act very offensive telling people what they can't do and pointing out mistakes they only did in your eyes. Nothing against productive criticism but this forum isn't to alleviate stress you might have in real life!

 

 

I hope thath the character in question only had a single lightning claw as a pair of them would entirely prohibit the use of other weaponry. :P

 

 

 

Of course, although he tried once to requisition a Heavy Bolter in addition to his Lightning Claw and argued with me that he can use this two-handed weapon, because he only needs the Lightning Claw arm to stabilize the HB and can use the free hand to pull the trigger. This was the main reason we switchted to the alternate weapon stats and after the HB wasn't attractive enough anymore he took a Storm Bolter instead. He is a very combat orientated SM.

Sounds like he is trying to power game the system - focussing on potentially OP imbalances or broken options over fluff and logic.
GM is logic king so just keep smacking him with it till he learns his place.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#23 Nikollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

Given that the Lightning Claws are directly connected to the nervous system through the Black Carapace, he should be able to ready them as a free action.

That being said, if he was caught flat-footed, he should suffer a major penalty. If I were GMing, the penalty would be on the order of -30 or -40. Additionally, it wouldn't get the benefit of its power-field until his combat round.


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#24 Nikollo

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:34 AM

*Sorry for the double-post, I can't edit my last post for some reason.*

 

@Kain McDogal: I've been mulling over the whole lightning claw/heavy bolter situation in my head. Namely, "Why would anyone even think of trying that?" But last night, I was considering what I might do in your place, and it hit me: Allow it.

Now, I need to clarify. Let him select both peices of wargear. Then suggest that he go into the training halls of the Watch Fortress to get acclimated to the new wargear configuration. Then, as he tries to go through some combat excercises, have the machine-spirits of both the lightning claw and the heavy bolter reject him. They would be offended by the presence of the other, implying that they are not good enough at their respective jobs to demand the primary focus in the character's personal arsenal. He would be publicly humiliated within the Watch Fortress, likely taking a small renown hit. He'd then have to select one or the other, and for the next mission or two the weapon would be finicky, still angry at him for the insult.



#25 Cryhavok

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 06:58 AM

You could let him use both lightning claw and heavy bolter, but apply the -20 manipulation penalty to his shots, as stabalizing the weapon while aiming at all the things you are shooting might be quite a bit harder with the giant, fat hand of the lightning claw. Also note that in order to ready his sheathed claws he has to pick: damage the heavy bolter, drop the heavy bolter, or spend a half action posting the heavy bolter. I also like the idea of the machine spirit problems, but I would have that be something that could bde overcome.

#26 Nikollo

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:08 PM

Cryhavok said:

You could let him use both lightning claw and heavy bolter, but apply the -20 manipulation penalty to his shots, as stabalizing the weapon while aiming at all the things you are shooting might be quite a bit harder with the giant, fat hand of the lightning claw. Also note that in order to ready his sheathed claws he has to pick: damage the heavy bolter, drop the heavy bolter, or spend a half action posting the heavy bolter. I also like the idea of the machine spirit problems, but I would have that be something that could bde overcome.

I really like the idea of overcoming the wounded pride of the machine spirits. The manipulation penalty is also something that could dimish by 5 each rank one gains while using this setup as their primary weapon configuration.

Then one could also impose a penalty after this period if one attempts to use one of these weapons without the other in your arsenal because the machine spirits have grown to like eachother.

 

 

Dammit, now I wanna playtest this!



#27 Soloman

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:34 PM

I'm not entirely sure what the OP's question is as such. The description of lightning claws in the main rule book (page 154) says they can be sheathed or unsheathed as a ready action. Isn't that enough?

#28 Visitor Q

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:50 AM

I'm not sure I would agree that lightning claws are any different from any other weapon that a marine has, in the sense that you need to ready them just the same.  Now readying them may be quicker (a Free Action in my opinion but as the last post says rulebook says a Ready Action is required) but I think this process or unsheathing the claws along with activating the powerfield may still be a lengthy enough process (a second or two) that it prevents the marine from using them to parry.

 

In most situations this shouldn't be an issue, for example on a combat patrol all the marines should have readied weapons anyway.

 

However in the case of surprise attacks etc I don't see why a marine would have readied lightning claws.

 

Or to put it another way if the player insists that his claws are always unsheathed...ALWAYS, then allow that unless the player specifically says they are being retracted

 

  • Try to use a cogitator?...oops lightning claw broke it.
  • Tried to drive a vehicle? oops lightning claw broke it
  • Listening to an Inquisitor give a briefing?  Inquisitor complains that he can't hear himself give the briefing above the crackling of the powerfield. -1 Renown from the offset (his superiours think he is unstable).
  • Diplomatic function with governor?  'Why is the assault marine walking around with a power weapon out and ready? ' -30 Fel to charm tests I think

Basically a player that insists that his weapon is always ready should be allowed to do this but should be treated in the same way as someone who wonders around in real life waving a gun about.  Then the issue becomes; Is this appropriate behaviour?'. 

 

If all your missions are purely combat focused then this might in fact be an appropriate response for the player.  However throw in a few non-combat encounters (or I dare say sessions) and you'll soon have the player insisting vehmently that the claws are sheathed. 

 

My view of GMing is try not to say no to a PCs request or suggestion, just let him live with the consequences. 


Edited by Visitor Q, 03 March 2014 - 05:06 AM.

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#29 Askold

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:59 PM

I would actually require the mag-lock upgrade to unsheath the claws as a free action.

 

Justify it so that without them the marine has to push buttons on the claw/gauntlets or something and that the "Mag-Lock" system is the equivalent of MIU for the claws or something that allows the marine to retract/extend the claws with a thought or something.

 

But that would be just for gameplay balance.



#30 Shambhalawar

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:25 PM

One thing I notice about these forums, is that there rarely every resolve an issue. I think it since it is part of your power armour and it requires a mental decision to bring claws out that should happen really fast, and probably be free action fast. Hell if you can quick draw a weapon as a free action, then this should count as one too.

 

 

I know it is a bit out of topic but does wolverine need an action to use his claws? Does the feline need a proper time to get theirs ready?

Don't think so…

It is the salme with the claws of the gauntlet, they are linked and part of your body nervous system, you don't have to ready them because when you want to fight with it, cut something they are out. they are controlled by your mind, electric impulses. No need to think about it, no need to do a simple move to get them.

Ligthning claws are IMO always ready.

 

Agree

 

But... Core rule book page 154, "The blades on lightning claws may be sheathed or unsheathed as a ready action..." Seems silly to me when every space marine starts with the quick draw talent that makes readying a free action, that unsheathing claws would be slower than drawing a bolter. I suppose that if you did want to retract them during a battle to use a "thrown" weapon the half action would make sense. 

 

 

Who’s walking around in combat with sheathed Lightning Claws?

BYE

 

Agree with this the most. 

 

The great thing about roleplay is that you can just change the rule for your game. I say if your player really digs not having to ready them, just allow that to be the case, he or she would might have more fun that way. I would say they are default always out and ready. If you wanted to retract them to throw a grenade in combat, maybe add the half action rule to retract. 



#31 musungu

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:44 AM

One thing I notice about these forums, is that there rarely every resolve an issue.

 

 There's often no clear consensus, that much is true. What makes it worthwhile, though, is the sharing of experiences - you can float an idea here to see what did and didn't work for others, what consequences a decision might have, and what possible uses or abuses (or, sometimes, well-defined rules) you missed. The rulebooks are not some sacred text, the Comissariat won't chase you down for minor - or, for that matter, major -  deviations. If you want the Word of God, there's some form to ask questions directly from the developers, if memory serves right.


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#32 Shambhalawar

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:13 AM

 

One thing I notice about these forums, is that there rarely every resolve an issue.

 

 There's often no clear consensus, that much is true. What makes it worthwhile, though, is the sharing of experiences - you can float an idea here to see what did and didn't work for others, what consequences a decision might have, and what possible uses or abuses (or, sometimes, well-defined rules) you missed. The rulebooks are not some sacred text, the Comissariat won't chase you down for minor - or, for that matter, major -  deviations. If you want the Word of God, there's some form to ask questions directly from the developers, if memory serves right.

 

 

Agree, wp sir :) 

 

It's great that we can formulate our own opinions and directions in a game free of an authority that declairggkakdhkjad SLASH! sguhhh ughhhhh bdg=adgaksdfhla;ksdj a nooooo! guhhhhhhhhhh............. (silence) 

 

Comissariat: MMUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! 


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#33 musungu

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:37 AM

Comissariat: MMUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! BLAM! Attempts to depict His Immortal Majesty's Comissariat in an unfavourable light are tantamount to HERESY! :D

 

Anyway, I didn't want to sound all condescending, sorry for that. Second language and all that stuff. It's just that the inputs are varying wildly, with some people knowing the crunch intimately, while others arguing based on fluff or even common sense. And then there's me, clogging the tubes :)



#34 Shambhalawar

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:00 PM

No, I liked it :) 



#35 Annaamarth

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:22 AM

Given that the Lightning Claws are directly connected to the nervous system through the Black Carapace, he should be able to ready them as a free action.

That being said, if he was caught flat-footed, he should suffer a major penalty. If I were GMing, the penalty would be on the order of -30 or -40. Additionally, it wouldn't get the benefit of its power-field until his combat round.

There is a logical fallacy in place here, and I want to make sure that it's understood by all and sundry.  The statement itself is true- given that the Lightning Claws are directly connected yadda yadda free action.

 

However, this makes an assumption that I don't know is true- are the Lightning Claws directly connected to the Black Carapace?  I would assume not, as having neural interface connections exposed on fighting surfaces (the gauntlets, in this case) seems like asking for trouble to me.  I would no more assume that this is a given than I would assume that a chainsword, power sword, or storm bolter is connected to the black carapace.

 

Do you have to pull a trigger on a storm bolter?  Yes.  Yes you do.  So then, it seems to me, there would be a physically activated component that must be actuated in order to A) extend the claws and B) ignite the power field.

 

I'm with HBMC.  Just leave them popped and ignited unless you're manipulating something, and otherwise treat them like any other weapon.  Avoid the problem to begin with.

 

Edit:

But... Core rule book page 154, "The blades on lightning claws may be sheathed or unsheathed as a ready action..." Seems silly to me when every space marine starts with the quick draw talent that makes readying a free action, that unsheathing claws would be slower than drawing a bolter. I suppose that if you did want to retract them during a battle to use a "thrown" weapon the half action would make sense. 

 Why would it take longer?  It's stated as being a ready action. Quick draw makes ready a free action. Again, treat them just like any other weapon.  I see Quick Draw affecting Lightning Claws just like everything else.


Edited by Annaamarth, 14 April 2014 - 12:25 AM.

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