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The Enemy Within…Musing on Price and Production


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#21 No:12

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:36 AM

Hi,

Nice spreadsheet Emirikol…

Like a rapid fire hit of nostalgia there. I'd genuinely forgotten some of those. Good times.

Course that only serves to fuel the disappointment at another impending FFG stitch up…



#22 Emirikol

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:24 AM

The spreadsheet's not mine.  It was just something cool I saw on rpggeek.

 

jh



#23 Johannes_Tippmeister

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

And so it has begun! ;-)

Bye, bye went my Amazon pre-order, to be shipped Dec 4.

Honestly, I hadn't thought it was real anyhow. My bet is a re-visit of 'Hero's Call'. It will ship, it's real, it will just arrive months later.

 

  • Hello,

    We regret to inform you that we have been unable to source the following item:

      Fantasy Flight Games "Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay: The Enemy Within"
      http://www.amazon.co...duct/1616614765

    Our supplier has informed us that this item is no longer available.  This item has now been cancelled from your order #026-7712723-9780365 and we can confirm that you have not been charged for it.

    Please accept our apologies for any disappointment or inconvenience caused.


#24 Count Zero

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:45 AM

Maybe it got pulled to be launched with a new edition of the rules. complice

 



#25 GoblynKing

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:42 AM

Count Zero said:

Maybe it got pulled to be launched with a new edition of the rules. complice

 

Here's hoping (crosses fingers)



#26 GalaxyUC

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:16 AM

Wait, so what in the hell does this mean?? I know Amazon messes up a lot. Man, I wish someone at FFG cared at all to say something. The last two expansion just creeped out and we only knew they were out by word of mouth.



#27 Count Zero

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:08 AM

GalaxyUC said:

Wait, so what in the hell does this mean?? I know Amazon messes up a lot. Man, I wish someone at FFG cared at all to say something. The last two expansion just creeped out and we only knew they were out by word of mouth.

 

Yeah, Amazon has screwed the pooch a few times with dates, but I'm sure a lot of that has to do with changes in company schedules. If FFG pushed back or pulled the product we can't blame Amazon for that. My gut is telling me that the rules will be re-launched similar to Edge of the Empire; doing away with tokens and cards for everything under the sun. A smaller boxed set with just the dice and rules would make the cost of entry a whole lot cheaper for folks. And what better way to rope people into the new set than with a The Enemy Within.

 

 



#28 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:17 AM

I wouldn't take anything amazon says about RPG release dates to mean anything.


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#29 gmanjkd

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:03 AM

However unlikely, it is possible TEW could be a crossover book, compatible with 3E and perhaps a 3.5/4, something more like the new star wars.  I say this due to the release of Descent 2nd ed.   Apparently Descent 1st is convertable to 2nd.  It stands to reason that if FFG were to release a streamlined edition similar to Star Wars that was in fact "Compatible" with 3rd in an attempt to pull in new players, everyone wins.  We get to use all of our stuff with the new and FFG gets to expand its customer base with a more cost efficient system that could have a broader appeal.

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#30 cparadis

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:42 AM

A may be remembering the wrong, but I believe at GenCon, FFG announced that TEW was set up in such a way that multiple NPCs could be the villain depending on what the GM chose. I always like when designers give GMs options when running adventures. 



#31 Captain Fluffy

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:14 AM

Johannes_Tippmeister said:

And so it has begun! ;-)

Bye, bye went my Amazon pre-order, to be shipped Dec 4.

Honestly, I hadn't thought it was real anyhow. My bet is a re-visit of 'Hero's Call'. It will ship, it's real, it will just arrive months later.

 

  • Hello,

    We regret to inform you that we have been unable to source the following item:

      Fantasy Flight Games "Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay: The Enemy Within"
      http://www.amazon.co...duct/1616614765

    Our supplier has informed us that this item is no longer available.  This item has now been cancelled from your order #026-7712723-9780365 and we can confirm that you have not been charged for it.

    Please accept our apologies for any disappointment or inconvenience caused.

I would not trust anything from Amazon regarding FFG's games.  As I understand it FFG have a very good policy of supplying specialist game shops or game wholesalers before they submit anything to amazon.  This is both to support the FLGS and also because Amazon will demand a lower price.  It does mean that if a product is popular and the wholesaler's place a big order then FFG will effectlively tell Amazon it is sold out and they are not getting it until the reprint arrives.

This can work in your favour. I ordered Black Fire Pass from Amazon.co.uk because they put a silly price on it; something like £10 ($15). Ever week or so I got an email saying it was not in released yet. This continued from July, when I brought a copy from a game shop, until december.Being told on a regular basis that the product had not been released when I was actually using it to run a dwarf campaign was a bit strange.  Then it finally arrived on Christmas Eve like a wierd present to myself.  I tend to keep an eye on Amazon just to pick up back up copies on the cheap. That way I dont have to worru about lossing cards, lending books to people, etc.  So far I have picked up both an Adventurers Toolkit and a Games master Vault for £8 ($12) each and a copy of the core box set for £35 ($52).


Give me more fluff and less rules

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#32 Captain Fluffy

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:38 AM

Emirikol said:

Let's talk about the old TEW:  rpggeek.com/rpgseries/281/the-enemy-within-campaign  -- quoted from:rpggeek

Any of you played it before?  Did you like it?  If so?  Why?  SPOILERS WELCOME.

jh

 

Yes I've played it and yes it was good.  I still have fond memories of my character, Axel (who ended up being known as Axel the Arch Arsonist when his actions lead us to renaming Shadows Over Bogenhafen: Smoke over Bogenhafen).  However it probably wasn't as good as some people like to make out.  It was very different from most other fantasy campaigns out at the time so for people who had never heard of Call of Cthulhu it was probaby a bit of a shock.  It also set the tone for WFRP like no other campaign will have a chance to do so again.  TEW is the reason so many warhammer adventures deal with chaos cults.  Its influence in this particular instance is probably damaging.  WFRP as D&D meet Cthulhu is a great summary for a game but I like a bit more diversity in my adventures.

The other thing to remember is that The Enemy Within is also effectively the main setting book(s) for 1st Edition. The 1st Edition rule book has about 30 pages of 'Guide to the Old World' and that included equipment lists. So the expanded details on towns and villages and life on the river etc was all fantastic stuff to get your hands on. I still refer to the TEW books when writing adventures for 3rd Ed.

Why did I like it? I think because it felt organic and sandbox like.  Shadows over Bogenhafen is about stopping a chaos cult but it doesn't matter if you succeed.  Life, and the campaign, can continue if you fail to stop the cultists.   That was a pretty big change from most games.

What didn't I like about it?  Too long.  One of the biggest problems with long multipart campaigns is that 1) if you play a lot you will use up material faster than it is published forcing you to write you own adventures which will normally be impossible to draw back into the main plot, and 2) even if your party only stray a bit off the plot every adventure by they time you have played enough session the direction you party are going in will inevitably be very different from the way that the authors expected.  I dont know what proportion of groups ever made it to the end of TEW but I dont know anyone who did.

 

 


Give me more fluff and less rules

Hear me on the Tabletop Chronicles Podcast
https://itunes.apple...ast/id670638100


#33 Grumbold

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

Captain Fluffy said:

I would not trust anything from Amazon regarding FFG's games.  As I understand it FFG have a very good policy of supplying specialist game shops or game wholesalers before they submit anything to amazon.  This is both to support the FLGS and also because Amazon will demand a lower price.  It does mean that if a product is popular and the wholesaler's place a big order then FFG will effectlively tell Amazon it is sold out and they are not getting it until the reprint arrives.

This can work in your favour. I ordered Black Fire Pass from Amazon.co.uk because they put a silly price on it; something like £10 ($15). Ever week or so I got an email saying it was not in released yet. This continued from July, when I brought a copy from a game shop, until december.Being told on a regular basis that the product had not been released when I was actually using it to run a dwarf campaign was a bit strange.  Then it finally arrived on Christmas Eve like a wierd present to myself.  I tend to keep an eye on Amazon just to pick up back up copies on the cheap. That way I dont have to worru about lossing cards, lending books to people, etc.  So far I have picked up both an Adventurers Toolkit and a Games master Vault for £8 ($12) each and a copy of the core box set for £35 ($52).

 

I'd agree with you if I could find any European supplier offering 3rd edition TEW. When my Amazon order was cancelled I hunted around for an alternative. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Now maybe that's just because FFG ran the print date so close to release date that they couldn't ship copies out of the US in time to supply hobby shops for the 4th December release date, but I find it telling that nobody in the UK except Amazon had even listed it for preorder (or anywhere outside the US if my internet searches are to be believed.) I only found one supplier even acknowledging its existence, and that one was quoting a probable summer 2012 release date, so hardly recent information.

 

I don't like climbing on a bandwagon claiming WFRP3 is for the axe, but it does seem clear that the focus at FFG has radically changed. A couple of years ago TEW v3 had every indication of being the nucleus of a product relaunch to draw in more customers, with it's own web pages and product hype that circulated around the web. 2012 saw a few small mentions of the product in March and then almost complete silence except for a final note that it had gone to the printers. Just when the product rolls off the production line and should be being hyped the most, particularly for pre christmas sales, we get a news item on the FFG site and no evidence of any wider awareness or external reporting of its launch. It seems to have been written off by FFG as irrelevant and emphasis has shifted completely to other product lines, which is a crying shame if it's actually anything like as good as its illustrious predecessor.



#34 Grumbold

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

Captain Fluffy said:

What didn't I like about it?  Too long.  One of the biggest problems with long multipart campaigns is that 1) if you play a lot you will use up material faster than it is published forcing you to write you own adventures which will normally be impossible to draw back into the main plot, and 2) even if your party only stray a bit off the plot every adventure by they time you have played enough session the direction you party are going in will inevitably be very different from the way that the authors expected.  I dont know what proportion of groups ever made it to the end of TEW but I dont know anyone who did.

 

Both times that I can remember it was run seriously by GMs I know it was completed, although one GM deliberately steered it to a different conclusion. If you had an eclectic group that swapped refs and systems to keep things fresh the pace of release wasn't so much of a problem. I agree with you that some of its appeal was in providing much more detail on what was previously a rather empty canvas, before the days when adventure-free "campaign sourcebooks" really took off as the way to sell more content to gamers with cash in their pockets. Another strength was that it did not feel hollow if you didn't use it as the full campaign. I ran the early modules several times to entertain different groups. However when I compare it to the sort of adventures you were getting in games like AD&D at the time there's no doubt it in my mind that it was a cut above even as an adventure. There were some gaffes but on the whole they'd taken the trouble to consider how the whole region operated and set the adventure against a living environment, a far cry from slapping down a bizarrely laid out underground complex a couple of days travel from a hamlet, inventing a weak back history and then filling it full of monsters that have little purpose in being there other than to provide xp and loot to the adventuring party.



#35 No:12

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:09 AM

Hi,

I was lucky enough to play TEW back in my early days as a gamer. I'd had experience with CoC but this totally blew me away. Think I had alot of the intro stuff go over my head at the time. Got hold of all the books shortly afterwards to get familiar with the story and structure in its entirety. Yes its not perfectly done, Kislev book was a bit of a let down to say the least. No adventure can completely cater for the variety of playing styles and desired contents, but this one I found had a genuinely interesting involvement within the setting of warhammer.

Power Behind the Throne was a watershed moment in gaming for me. It remains the most inspiring single supplement i have ever bought in conjunction with Warhammer City. Its not just the social investigative cloak and dagger adventure set up, it was also the sheer amount of information and other stuff going on within Middenhiem at the time. To be honest my experience as a player during the adventure and the stuff I wrote to GM using material from these two books was probably the reason I have always favoured WFRP over every other game Ive played before or since. 



#36 Johann Rowlocks

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:29 PM

I have run the entire campaign twice and loved every minute both times - the Death on the Reik Castle sequence and the conclusion to Power behind the Throne being particular highlights. But it was too long, and the finale really was unworthy… Looking forward to the new iteration, and I think if it is good enough, there may be some new WFRPers soon enough.



#37 crimsonsun

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

I have found it listed either on Gameslore.co.uk or lesuiregames.com but like that amazon.co.uk page you cannot even order The Enemy Within currently. On the other hand this has happened with multiple WFRP 3ed products where the initial/expected release date was missed and then it became impossible to even advance order the product in question, then suddenly with no warning every single online store will post its avalibility at once. My guess for the most accurate prediction for when it will be out in the UK at least is to contact a wholesaler, I have one in mind on the tip of my tougue but cannot for the life of me think what it is actually called.

I find this very frustrating as I would order it right now if I was able, but refuse to pay delivery from the states for something that will arrive in stores here before said order would get overseas. Yet I have no hobby shop within an hour or twos drive, which means I have no choice but to attempt to find a UK online store from which I can make the order.

Edit: Esdevium Games was the big one I was thinking of… I will drop them an email they may or may not respond.

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#38 valvorik

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:29 AM

It's out in Toronto. Picked it up at Hairy Tarantula last evening, which means 401 Games across street likely has it.  Haven't had chance to digest much - thick booklet, cards, standups etc.

Notice some duplicates in cards, I think so if you don't have some expansions beyond core set you have Ruinous Power mark card you need etc.

Also noticed some "travel rules" (simpler than the One Ring based houseful I've been using but similar concept, abstract trip to appropriate skill checks etc.).

There's more detail in options for creating starting characters and how to use backgrounds and draw methods together etc.

It's very "investigative" (at least the start I read) and requires GM "absorb stuff" in order to run it.  True to promise it's "pick a villain among options".

That's about all i have for now and all that should be posted outside GM forum anyway.



#39 Armoks

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:37 AM

valvorik said:

It's out in Toronto. Picked it up at Hairy Tarantula last evening, which means 401 Games across street likely has it.  Haven't had chance to digest much - thick booklet, cards, standups etc.

Waiting for more details!



#40 gmanjkd

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:00 AM

Valvorik, what is the page count of the thick book?

Thx

GH






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