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Does anyone know what Zweihänder grim & perilous RPG is?


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#1 Warhammmer2eForever

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

 Long time lurker, first time poster. I saw that the second edution Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay forums are no longer here. I went over to Strike To Stun and there's a forum for something called Zweihander Grim & perilous RPG. It looks like Warhammer, but different than third edition. Looks kind of like second edition.

Is that a new Warhammer product? Anyone else play testing it? I haven't seen any downloads for it here.

 


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#2 doc_cthulhu

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

 It is an indepentend product develop by fans of WFRP. It followed the guidelines of WFRP2 for a long time but has evolved a bit further since. It is in no way an official product belonging to any line of Warhammer.

More of this upcoming (released hopefully at the beginning of next year) can be found at What is Grim&Perilous?


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#3 Spivo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:13 PM

Considering that the OP has visited the forums (strike), and under the assumption that he can read, and considering his username here, I'd say that the post was not meant as a question, but more a subtle hint-hint-hinte-ti-hint-hint to others that Twei-hander was around 


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#4 doc_cthulhu

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:30 AM

 Hsssss! Don't spoil this! :D

The official statement of the glorious Empire is that no such things as "Spivos" exist. They are like skaven. And by that I mean, silence. 


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#5 Daedalum

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:05 PM

Now that you put it like that, I'm reading forum Nicks but imagining ruddy great rat-men behind the keyboards everywhere. pecking away with filthy paws and chewing the tips of their tails.  


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#6 GrimAndPerilous.com

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:24 AM

Warhammmer2eForever said:

 Long time lurker, first time poster. I saw that the second edution Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay forums are no longer here. I went over to Strike To Stun and there's a forum for something called Zweihander Grim & perilous RPG. It looks like Warhammer, but different than third edition. Looks kind of like second edition.

Is that a new Warhammer product? Anyone else play testing it? I haven't seen any downloads for it here.

 

Sorry for the late reply on this!

ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG is an independent retroclone of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. It has nothing to do with Fantasy Flight Games. It's being developed to support the Warhammer world, along with any other GM-created campaign that wishes to emulate a low fantasy and gritty "grim & perilous" playstyle. It fits a vision that parallels Andrzej Sapkowski's world of The Witcher, Glen Cook's Black Company and other Renaissance-inspired stories. There are very few RPGs which marries gritty violence and social intrigue with a mature tone. ZWEIHÄNDER is being written to cement this sort of playstyle with a universal ruleset (similar in application to GURPS).

As already mentioned, you can learn more about it over at http://grimandperilous.com or get weekly updates on its progress at http://www.facebook....grimandperilous

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#7 GrimAndPerilous.com

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

Speaking of ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG

Our new editor came onboard a few weeks ago. We’re in the middle of cleaning up the character creation chapter, and have outlined a few immediate considerations you’ll make when creating your first "Grim & Perilous" character. Take a look at a sample of what we’re writing, and let us know if we’re hitting close to the mark:

http://grimandperilous.com/?p=212 



#8 Yepesnopes

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:58 PM

 I love this part

"ZWEIHÄNDER assumes that player characters were normal, everyday people (or as normal as they could be in any fantasy world), until dire circumstances recast their fate."

It is something that wfrpg 3 took away from the warhammer world by opening a gap between PCs and NPCs, both in power level and game mechanics. I would love to see it back.

Cheers,

Yepes


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#9 gruntl

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

 Thanks for the information, it sounds quite interesting. 

However, given that your RPG is not related to FFGs WFRP, and that your product is commercial I think you should be careful with posting advertisements in the FFG fora. I'm not saying you're breaching the TOS, but you're coming quite close (in my non-expert opinion).


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#10 GrimAndPerilous.com

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 08:51 PM

Public Beta 2: “GRIMDARK Edition” Ready!. Titled “GRIMDARK Edition”, it includes all of the gritty, perilous adventure mechanics you’d come to expect from ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG!

We’ve prepared the vast majority of what’s been internally playtested into one single document. It includes character creation, combat, wilderness travel and more! While some parts of the playtest are not quite ready for GRIMDARK Edition, this document includes practically everything you need to build characters, equip them, run combat, engage in wilderness exploration, fight perilous foes and more!

 

Download the free public open beta here: http://grimandperilous.com/?p=663


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#11 Nimsim

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:43 PM

I'll bite. What about this game is better than the existing second edition? Specifically, I'll divide this question into parts.

What are the problems with second edition and how does this game fix them?
What does this game add in terms of game design improvements (eg better gameplay, better narrative, etc)?
What differentiates this game from any other fantasy heartbreaker?
What is the hook for this game other than skirting around the WFRP setting?
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#12 Ralzar

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 02:02 AM

I haven't looked too deeply into the game, but the draw for me would be an RPG with the WFRP 1st/2nd flavour without having to cowtow to GW and the Fantasy Battles storylines. What draws many people to WFRP is the grim and gritty "down in the gutters" type of fantasy RPG (as opposed to D&D and most other RPGs). Which has been more and more assaulted on all sides by GW changing the tone of the world to more high fantasy.

Basically, investing in an RPG setting where the creators are more likely to have the RPG as their main priority.


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#13 GrimAndPerilous.com

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 08:31 AM

Thanks for the inquiry!

 

Previous editions of WFRP suffered from serious issues with skill distributions between specific lines of careers. It created lopsided career paths that severely impacted the way percentile math worked. While on the surface, two careers deep did little to upset the inherent balance. But once you got three+ careers in, you could visibly see the cracks. Couple that with an unbalanced distribution model of talents and advance bumps, and the game became a mathematical nightmare where you had players who were four careers deep, but didn't have an even, fair distribution of skills, advances and talents between them.

 

ZWEIHÄNDER introduces a "fairer" model, creating an even distribution of skills, talents and bonus advances over each profession. Additionally, it creates a broader path model by archetype. This means that every archetype has 13 nested professions below it, which models the old career paths but allows people to move between archetypes without unhinging the skill distributions. It is a far more elegant solution: no profession gets more than two skills in any one primary attribute, with exceptions made only for the Folklore, Toughness, Rumor, Simple Melee and Simple Ranged skills.

 

Combat is faster, offers more options and removes a lot of the oddities from prior editions of WFRP. It also divorces the idea of hit point and wound tracking, using a narrative element to trend how hurt a character is, how much stress they're suffering from and when they suffer critical injuries.

 

Characters possess specific personality attributes, which rest on an "alignment scale" between Order and Chaos. Actions that are deemed to follow their order attribute can grow, granting additional fate points. Actions that follow the chaos attribute can grow as well, granting afflictions, madness, mutation and insanities.

 

I am not familiar with what the term "fantasy heartbreaker" means. I am assuming you mean whether this is a true retroclone or not. It is, but it isn't. In many ways, the game stands on its own two legs, differentiating itself from WFRP but feels familiar both thematically and rule-wise. I would invite you to read the "What Is ZWEIHÄNDER?" on the website here to learn more: http://grimandperilous.com/?page_id=8

 

In essence, it divorces the Old World entirely from its ruleset but embraces the down in the gutter, gritty aspect thematically throughout the work. We call this "grim & perilous gaming", which resonates throughout the work.

 

Download the short introduction chapter to learn more about ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG here: https://www.dropbox....uction.pdf?dl=0


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#14 Nimsim

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 05:50 PM

Thank you for responding. I'm still kind of unclear about what makes the game "grim and perilous." What specifically about the rules makes this the case. In addition, what about being "grim and perilous" is fun to play? "Grim and perilous" is more of a buzzword than a descriptor of play. Are characters more likely to die? In what ways (less health, tougher enemies, bad starting stats in comparison to NPCs, etc)? What about the mechanics you have chosen adds to gameplay and how does it do so?

A fantasty heartbreak refers to the glut of products in the 90s that people published that were basically just their D&D houserules with one or two good novel ideas buried in the mechanics. Basically a game that has one spark of creativity buried under just copying D&D. So what parts of WFRP/BRP is this system copying and why? What is the BRP engine offering your game? What parts of WFRP are you keeping and why? Having a good reason for this these things beyond "because it was in the last game" is really important for good game design.
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#15 Yepesnopes

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 04:50 AM

Thank you for responding. I'm still kind of unclear about what makes the game "grim and perilous." What specifically about the rules makes this the case. In addition, what about being "grim and perilous" is fun to play? "Grim and perilous" is more of a buzzword than a descriptor of play. Are characters more likely to die? In what ways (less health, tougher enemies, bad starting stats in comparison to NPCs, etc)? What about the mechanics you have chosen adds to gameplay and how does it do so?

A fantasty heartbreak refers to the glut of products in the 90s that people published that were basically just their D&D houserules with one or two good novel ideas buried in the mechanics. Basically a game that has one spark of creativity buried under just copying D&D. So what parts of WFRP/BRP is this system copying and why? What is the BRP engine offering your game? What parts of WFRP are you keeping and why? Having a good reason for this these things beyond "because it was in the last game" is really important for good game design.

 

Wow! It really seems you are asking him to sell you the product!

 

There is information about the game in the web page and there you can download the full game for free to give it look and form your own opinion about it, if it would interest you.


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#16 Nimsim

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 11:32 AM

Thank you for responding. I'm still kind of unclear about what makes the game "grim and perilous." What specifically about the rules makes this the case. In addition, what about being "grim and perilous" is fun to play? "Grim and perilous" is more of a buzzword than a descriptor of play. Are characters more likely to die? In what ways (less health, tougher enemies, bad starting stats in comparison to NPCs, etc)? What about the mechanics you have chosen adds to gameplay and how does it do so?
A fantasty heartbreak refers to the glut of products in the 90s that people published that were basically just their D&D houserules with one or two good novel ideas buried in the mechanics. Basically a game that has one spark of creativity buried under just copying D&D. So what parts of WFRP/BRP is this system copying and why? What is the BRP engine offering your game? What parts of WFRP are you keeping and why? Having a good reason for this these things beyond "because it was in the last game" is really important for good game design.

 
Wow! It really seems you are asking him to sell you the product!
 
There is information about the game in the web page and there you can download the full game for free to give it look and form your own opinion about it, if it would interest you.

Well, the point of this thread is to sell people on the product, isn't it? He's free to not respond, but I looked at the website and it told me a lot less than his post did.

#17 GrimAndPerilous.com

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 04:35 PM

 

 

Thank you for responding. I'm still kind of unclear about what makes the game "grim and perilous." What specifically about the rules makes this the case. In addition, what about being "grim and perilous" is fun to play? "Grim and perilous" is more of a buzzword than a descriptor of play. Are characters more likely to die? In what ways (less health, tougher enemies, bad starting stats in comparison to NPCs, etc)? What about the mechanics you have chosen adds to gameplay and how does it do so?
A fantasty heartbreak refers to the glut of products in the 90s that people published that were basically just their D&D houserules with one or two good novel ideas buried in the mechanics. Basically a game that has one spark of creativity buried under just copying D&D. So what parts of WFRP/BRP is this system copying and why? What is the BRP engine offering your game? What parts of WFRP are you keeping and why? Having a good reason for this these things beyond "because it was in the last game" is really important for good game design.

 
Wow! It really seems you are asking him to sell you the product!
 
There is information about the game in the web page and there you can download the full game for free to give it look and form your own opinion about it, if it would interest you.

Well, the point of this thread is to sell people on the product, isn't it? He's free to not respond, but I looked at the website and it told me a lot less than his post did.

 

Thanks for the feedback and questions!

 

Send in a full-page review of the product by email (250 to 500 words) by January 15th, and I'll send you a free physical copy of the book once it's ready. We'll publish the review - good, bad or indifferent - on our home website. 

Reviews must be written in English, both clear and concise. While we like praise, we also want to hear constructive criticism. Reviews including overt negativity or language which isn't deemed constructive will not be posted. 
 

Reach out to me by private message here, so we can email one another.

 

 

Best,

Daniel


Edited by GrimAndPerilous.com, 31 December 2014 - 10:48 AM.

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#18 Nimsim

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 11:01 AM

Thank you for responding. I'm still kind of unclear about what makes the game "grim and perilous." What specifically about the rules makes this the case. In addition, what about being "grim and perilous" is fun to play? "Grim and perilous" is more of a buzzword than a descriptor of play. Are characters more likely to die? In what ways (less health, tougher enemies, bad starting stats in comparison to NPCs, etc)? What about the mechanics you have chosen adds to gameplay and how does it do so?
A fantasty heartbreak refers to the glut of products in the 90s that people published that were basically just their D&D houserules with one or two good novel ideas buried in the mechanics. Basically a game that has one spark of creativity buried under just copying D&D. So what parts of WFRP/BRP is this system copying and why? What is the BRP engine offering your game? What parts of WFRP are you keeping and why? Having a good reason for this these things beyond "because it was in the last game" is really important for good game design.

 
Wow! It really seems you are asking him to sell you the product!
 
There is information about the game in the web page and there you can download the full game for free to give it look and form your own opinion about it, if it would interest you.

Well, the point of this thread is to sell people on the product, isn't it? He's free to not respond, but I looked at the website and it told me a lot less than his post did.
Thanks for the feedback and questions!
 
Send in a full-page review of the product by email (250 to 500 words) by January 15th, and I'll send you a free physical copy of the book once it's ready. We'll publish the review - good, bad or indifferent - on our home website. [/size]Reviews must be written in English, both clear and concise. While we like praise, we also want to hear constructive criticism. Reviews including overt negativity or language which isn't deemed constructive will not be posted. [/size]
 
Reach out to me by private message here, so we can email one another.
 
 
Best,
Daniel

Challenge accepted!

I'm reading my way through it now. Mind you, I'm going to focus a lot more on mechanics, as that's where most of my interest lies.
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#19 ragnar63

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 06:24 AM

With WFRP it is the setting as much as the rules that make the roleplaying experience. Likewise with Pathfinder, the setting is probably more of a reason to game it rather than the rules.

 

My worry for Zweihander is that without its own campaign setting, that sets it apart it will be just another set of RPG rules, that can be used to play scenarios from other systems. Are you going to create your own world for Zweihander, that is as grim and gritty as the "Old World"?


Edited by ragnar63, 02 January 2015 - 06:25 AM.

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#20 GrimAndPerilous.com

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 08:16 AM

With WFRP it is the setting as much as the rules that make the roleplaying experience. Likewise with Pathfinder, the setting is probably more of a reason to game it rather than the rules.

 

My worry for Zweihander is that without its own campaign setting, that sets it apart it will be just another set of RPG rules, that can be used to play scenarios from other systems. Are you going to create your own world for Zweihander, that is as grim and gritty as the "Old World"?

 

The Gamemaster's section will include "Grim & Perilous Campaign Seeds". These will be four to six page campaign settings. Some of these tentatively include:

  • Grim & Perilous: Victoriana
  • Grim & Perilous: Edwardian London
  • Grim & Perilous: Virginia Colony
  • Grim & Perilous: Bakumatsu Shogunate
  • Grim & Perilous: Old Testament

 

I will also be including my own campaign world in the campaign seed section.

 

Providing that the rule setting catches on, the plan is to release supplements to the core book, with new background information, rules and additive Professions for these same campaign worlds and new ones. Enterprising buyers can release their own campaigns worlds as well, given that the book and its supplements will be released following a Creative Commons Share-Alike license, as indicated here: http://grimandperilous.com/?page_id=95

 

Otherwise, the game is being released with a world agnostic approach.


Edited by GrimAndPerilous.com, 02 January 2015 - 10:06 AM.





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