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Alternate Runner win condition - has any corp ever been decked?


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#21 profligate

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

Exactly.  The only milling ability right now is Noise's special ability.  And that fits perfectly with his deck design: kill ICE and force the corp to spread it thin.



#22 Messenger

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:53 AM

bhosp said:

But I could see this actually happening through some combination of Medium, Sabotage Run, and whatever that Criminal card that lets you sell your stolen Agendas for $9 is called.
The Runner will have to forfeit at least 15 Agenda points worth to Data Dealer to do it. As far as being a viable competitive strategy is concerned, simply stealing and keeping 7 Agenda points is far more efficient as of now.



#23 ffaristocrat

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:47 AM

 In classic NR, the Corp had AI Chief Financial Officer, an 5/2 agenda that, when scored, gave you the permanent ability to shuffle HQ & Archives into R&D and draw 5 cards. So decking the Corporation wasn't really meant to be a strategy even back then.

Noise isn't about decking the Corp, it's about trashing enough of R&D that you can win the game in one run on Archives.



#24 Messenger

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:42 PM

ffaristocrat said:

 In classic NR, the Corp had AI Chief Financial Officer, an 5/2 agenda that, when scored, gave you the permanent ability to shuffle HQ & Archives into R&D and draw 5 cards. So decking the Corporation wasn't really meant to be a strategy even back then.

Noise isn't about decking the Corp, it's about trashing enough of R&D that you can win the game in one run on Archives.

This may have to change, though. It's a new game with revised and updated rules and new features. I don't disagree with what you said about Noise, but that's how things stand with the cards we currently have. Certainly, FFG can open up that defeat condition for the Corp in order to explore more design space, give Anarchs a new straetgy and simply add more variety to the game in the future. R&D destruction is more in line with the Anarchs' "watch the world burn" perspective than stealing Agendas is.

That said, I reiterate that this strategy remains impractical at the time being.



#25 Saturnine

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:36 PM

I can definitely see how decking the corp is impractical, as it would be likely somebody wins by points before the decking gets accomplished.

I just thought of an interesting, thematic card idea though for Anarchs that would play into the deck destruction a little more: A virus program that is installed on a non-ICE card in a remote server that reads "If the host card would be scored, instead it is forfeit. If the host card is rezzed, trash <insert card name>." Would give Anarchs a way to prevent the Corp from scoring an agenda that's buried too deep behind ICE for the runner to reach.



#26 TheRealLeo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:53 AM

Saturnine said:

 

I just thought of an interesting, thematic card idea though for Anarchs that would play into the deck destruction a little more: A virus program that is installed on a non-ICE card in a remote server that reads "If the host card would be scored, instead it is forfeit. If the host card is rezzed, trash ." Would give Anarchs a way to prevent the Corp from scoring an agenda that's buried too deep behind ICE for the runner to reach.

 

 

Unfortunately, that would be a very broken card, especially if it's a virus. Part of the whole reason the runner is required to break through the Corp's build-up is because there is no attached cost for them to steal an agenda. If the runner has the ability to partially circumnavigate the Corp's defenses by dropping a neuter card on any potential agendas, then you give the runner a clear incentive to just sit around and do nothing but stall the game out. That's no fun whatsoever.

If it were to involve making runs, and building up virus counters on the card to a certain high amount, then maybe it would be ok. At least the runner would have to be proactive to make the card work, and the strategy could potentially be thwarted by the Corp if they shore up their defenses in whatever necessary ways.



#27 Saturnine

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:25 PM

TheRealLeo said:

 

Unfortunately, that would be a very broken card, especially if it's a virus. Part of the whole reason the runner is required to break through the Corp's build-up is because there is no attached cost for them to steal an agenda. If the runner has the ability to partially circumnavigate the Corp's defenses by dropping a neuter card on any potential agendas, then you give the runner a clear incentive to just sit around and do nothing but stall the game out. That's no fun whatsoever.

If it were to involve making runs, and building up virus counters on the card to a certain high amount, then maybe it would be ok. At least the runner would have to be proactive to make the card work, and the strategy could potentially be thwarted by the Corp if they shore up their defenses in whatever necessary ways.

 

 

Very fair points. Requiring it to somehow collect virus tokens would be in line with how the other viruses work -- I like it. Anyhow, I'm not expecting them to put out a card like this, because of its potential to shift the game's dynamics into undesirable directions (though there might be ways to balance it as you suggest), but I thought thematically it would fit well with the Anarch flavor.



#28 riastradh

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:01 AM

bhosp said:

There's no game term for it, but I think we should call this bankrupting the Corp.

Liquidating.

I came down to about 8-10 cards as corp, but I see that as a result of a poor build.



#29 profligate

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

Old thread is old.

I did actually accomplish this though.  Corp had draw lots of cards and was sitting on a well-defended mitt of agendas.  We had each scored one or two agendas.  I milled him out with virus plays and Imp trashes.  Ta-da!



#30 SilverSaint

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:22 PM

Noise decks seem to be quite good at decking or winning through archived agendas.  I literally lost to a noise deck that just did that.  I got unlucky and couldnt draw a single agenda to score and he was able to go through my deck discarding around 15 cards total from it and the turn I was about to win I had nothing to draw.



#31 Runix

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

As others have pointed out, the decking win condition is there more to avoid stalemates and to force the Corp to play than it is about opening up a consistently effective strategy for the Runner (as opposed to flatlining the Runner, which is clearly a viable strategy).  Basically, a tie goes to the Runner, so the Corp has to actively make things happen.

It does sometimes come up as an issue with Noise decks, as others have also pointed out.  One of the better strategies versus Noise is stacking big ice on Archives.  But that can also lead to a Runner victory, as Noise doesn't need to break into Archives to win - he just needs to mill enough cards that the Corp never draws enough Agendas for a win and the decking condition kicks in.

As such, I don't think Corps need to actively think about preventing a milling win - but they do need to think about what they'll do about Noise.  Icing up Archives is straightforward enough, but alongside that they should have some option for digging down into Archives - even if it's just a copy or two of Archived Memories.



#32 Doug F.

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:57 PM

I have milled out one time as Anarch using alot of medium runs and imp trashes



#33 Defenstrator

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:16 AM

It's never happened to us. If you're getting milled that badly the Runner generally raids the Archive and scouts out runs for the win.



#34 profligate

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

For me, at least, I missed every Agenda on my virus plays.  Archives was well-defended and empty.






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