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Apothecaries


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#21 Zaltorin

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:35 AM

herichimo said:

Cryhavok said:

It is in the armory section of the core book under cybernetcs. It is a peice of gear that you would need to acquire, not an advance you spend xp on. I am not sure off the top of my head what it's renown requirements are. You can get it as soon as you meet the requirements to get it, regardless of level.

 

Tim Flanders, official FFG rules person, states;

"The rules for bionic replacements are not intended to be purchased with requisition unless extenuating circumstances arise that make the replacements necessary. Of course, in the end the Game Master has final say on what is appropriate for their campaign.

Thanks for your question,

Tim"

You can get an MIU, via normal and standard rules, if you have a talent which allows you to get one normally. No other way.

The MIU is not a replacement, its more of an enhancement.  In my mind that answer would seem to address bionic limbs and organ replacements like a bionic heart.  Of course there would seem to be an exception for the Iron Hands.



#22 scienter

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:08 PM

I wanted to play an apothecary when I learned about Deathwatch as my first character. I rolled an Ultramarine Apothecary Tyrannic War Veteran. He ended up being the squad leader on multiple occasions because his cohesion modifiers were higher than everybody elses (Go Blue!). But the more I played, the more I realized that the Apothecary spec really seems half fleshed out. There really weren't many interesting advancements in the apothecary tree. So why be an apothecary if you are just taking DW or SM advances that any grunt can take? 

At that point, since it was the first time we were all playing the game, my GM allowed me to reroll as an Ultramarine Tactical Tyrannic War Veteran. Because Tyrannic War Veterans can pick up Medicae, the Tactical marine was able to be a better leader, better fighter, and still a decent healer. Having a Narth is more important than being an Apothecary for healing. 

Even without TWV, I think picking up medicae as an elite advancement and req'ing a narth for 10 req is a better use of exp and skills to supplement another spec than to be an apothecary. It just seems that so many of the Apothecary-specific abilities aren't that useful or other specs can also do them. Just my thoughts, although I will say that we haven't played this game that much. 



#23 antijoke_13

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:57 PM

If you look at the Role of combat medics in most modern, tradiltional militaries, you'll find that Medics are backseat combatants, often firing their weapons  only in defense, and spending the majority of their time tending to the wounded and fallen. that's not to say that medics aren't capable combatants: Most medics have to be just as skilled as their infantry counterparts since, in the end, war does not differentiate between soldiers and doctors. 

I Picture apothecaries as having to deal with this model, and having to find creative ways of seeking glory in battle. if you're playing with a group that knows something of real military doctrine, then the apothecary may often find himself parked behind the tactical or devastator, so as to keep him out of harms way. this actually sets up the Apothecary to be a very skilled sniper style character, if built right. I've seen apothecaries with astartes snipers pick off key targets, like enemy officers, throwing the rest of the enemy forces into dissarray. Our GM was fairly creative, and allowed our Apothecary to use the Medicae skill to gain additional extra damage on called shots, representing that the Apothecary was using his knowledge of anatomy and physiology to hit natural weak spots in the enemy's body, like blowing out joints, or aiming for arteries. it got to the point where our Apothecary would one shot enemies that were trying to flank us or Master style enemies that were directing hordes to try and drown us in bodies. 

hope this helps



#24 scienter

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:26 AM

The way these rules look to me, a sniper/medic would be better executed with a TAC or Dev marine with medicae as an elite skill and requisitioning a narthecium, without house ruling something.

#25 antijoke_13

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:42 PM

scienter said:

The way these rules look to me, a sniper/medic would be better executed with a TAC or Dev marine with medicae as an elite skill and requisitioning a narthecium, without house ruling something.

from a rules crunch aspect, you are undeniably correct. 

however, there are a number of fluff and character development points that you are ignoring. While an apothecary trained in medicae is mechanically not all that different from any other marine trained in medicae, the implied level of training is completely different. your standard Space marine probably knows basic first aid and has enough knowledge of Astartes physiology to staunch a bleeding wound or stabilize an ally, but he's no doctor. Apothecaries, on the other hand, are trained specifically to tend to the wounds of space marines, as well as the many intricacies of the Astartes Body, therefore making them better trained medics. I don't have a book in front of me, but if i remember correctly, this is exemplified by the Apothecary's ability to quickly gain advancements in the Medicae Skill and a slew of Medicae related talents that can only be taken by other Marines through elite advances. Furthermore, it is my understanding that Deathwatch Apothecaries recieve further training on Xenos Physiology upon taking the Apocryphon Oath and are charged with learning even more about the Xenos body in the execution of their missions, so as to learn how to better combat the xenos and exploit inherent weaknesses. This puts the Apothecary in a unique position to gain unparalleled knowledge of what will hurt the likes of Tyrannid and Tau the most, and it is An Apothecary who will often find it easiest to exploit that knowledge. Also, Space Marines aren't as Flexible as some people believe them to be. just because an Assault Marine CAN learn the Medicae skill, or a Tactical Marine CAN requisition a Narthecium or even make it standard issue through Signature Wargear, that doesn't mean he would. for what reason would anyone but an Apothecary have a Narthecium? Finally, Removing the Progenoid Glands, which is ultimately an Apothecary's chief duty, is a delicate process for which Apothecaries are specifically selected and trained. For this reason alone, Apothecaries are not only useful, but indeed necessary for a Kill Team. Who but the Apothecary would know how to harvest the sacred Geneseed from a fallen Brother? who would teach anyone but an apothecary to harvest the Geneseed? and why would anyone but the Apothecary want to know in the first place? 



#26 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

We've had a number of Apothecaries in our campaigns. Two of them have been Snipers, and have sat back taking pot-shots at the enemy with Stalker-Pattern Bolters. The most recent one though is a Flesh Tearer Sanguinary Priest w/2 Chainswords. He's a bit of a nut case.

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Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#27 Wonder Lemming

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 05:02 AM

Apothecaries lend themselves to very rounded fill-the-gaps type characters, they don't have any expensive characteristic advances and get much better skill support than, for example, tactical marines. In combat they're still Space Marines but they get to play much more in the fact finding and negotiation parts of missions than some of the more focussed classes.

As an example, our Apothecary picked up a lot of the Lore skills as they benefit from his high Intelligence, this makes him one of the better investigative members of the team. He also has a decent fellowship and often works as squad leader as Apothecary opens up some decent Oaths.

In combat he plays flexibly as needed, either providing ranged support with a Stalker-pattern Bolter, or helping out the Assault Marine in Melee. The team are also very fond of his create toxins ability.

At Rank 4 he also took Deathwatch Chaplain furthering his squad leader and investigative role, though I suspect it was mainly for the skull-helm.



#28 Jaaniv

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:47 PM

I play a Black Templar apothecary, that has focused on melee combat. He has good WS and Ag but poor S and T so he is more of an skillful combatant than a brute. He also has rather good scores in Int, Per, WP and Fel so with his skill sets acts as a secondary leader and advisor. He also likes to use inspire wrath and litanies of hate to spread his hatreds so he acts kinda like a chaplain too (not that I'm going to take that speciality).



#29 Korvis

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:43 AM

It seems to me a bit unorthodox to say the least for an Apothecary to be a Sniper.  Their role is to tend to the wounded and keep the team viable.  Healing and assisting in short ranged or Melee combat when not tending the wounded.  As a Sniper, you generally are at stand off distance or seperate form the squad providing overwatch/recon/intel.  If someone is hit and needs tending, what do you do.....leave cover/concealment and overwatch to cover the distance between you and the squad and THEN tend to the wounded?  Seems a wasteful proposition IMO, and unrealistic in a tactical sense.



#30 Night10194

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:26 AM

We had a super unlucky sniper/plasma Dark Angel apothecary in one of our teams. On paper, he was great, but his player just plain couldn't roll to save his life sometimes. He was also the party's interrogator, because they were investigating that Dark Magos dude who eats Marine Geneseed and the Angel discovered he'd learned the Angels had some kind of secret from eating an Angel, so he spent a lot of the game trying to keep their Inquisitor intel ally from discovering why he was so damned interested in finding Phyrazos. It was fun times.



#31 Korvis

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

How do you play apothecary? Do you stick to a support role, or do you take a more "active" approach to your class. Do you prefer meele or ranged? Do you play prestige classes with your apothecary (Ravenwing/Wolfpriest/Sanguinary Priest)? 

Personally I like to go Tyrannic War veteran apothecary, I feel like it helps make Apothecary a bit more dangerous in combat will retaining the ability to support my kill team with my medical skills/knowledge of Tyranids.

 

Just a point of order, the Space Wolves Chapter does NOT have nor employ Apothecaries in any fashion.  In the Core Rule Book, they are specifically exempt from the Apothecary Specialty altogether.



#32 Koma76

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:14 AM

 

At Rank 4 he also took Deathwatch Chaplain furthering his squad leader and investigative role, though I suspect it was mainly for the skull-helm.

 

;)






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