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#21 Major Mishap

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:30 AM

The game definately needs a rule for tailing an enemy ship as this is the most crucial position for any flying craft in any game or film or real-life.  A simple re-roll of a failed hit would suffice to give a bit of an advantage for maneuvering into a good position.



#22 dbmeboy

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:38 AM

Major Mishap said:

The game definately needs a rule for tailing an enemy ship as this is the most crucial position for any flying craft in any game or film or real-life.  A simple re-roll of a failed hit would suffice to give a bit of an advantage for maneuvering into a good position.

I don't know that it needs any more advantage.  The current advantage of being able to fire while not having to defend seems pretty useful, no?



#23 magadizer

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:56 AM

Daveydavedave said:

 I think Tie Interceptors are in Return of the Jedi.

 

Getting back to the thread topic:

I think the rules already include a simple yet efficient way of accounting for positioning.  It's all about firing arcs.  Keeping your enemy inside of them, and keeping your own ships out of them.  So maneuvering is really vastly more important than what upgrades and pilots you picked.

It could be cool to see a ship with shield toggling in a star wars game because it was a feature of the old x-wing pc games that we all know and love.  But I think this game has its own unique mechanics and you wont see them change drastically.  Probably the biggest evolutions to be introduced in subsequent releases will be new action cards (like this new "boosters" action on the falcon and A-Wing).

 

TIE Interceptors are definitely in ROTJ.

 

I agree about the importance of maneuvering. I played the basic introductory rules again with my daughter last night to begin teaching her the game. I was impressed by how much maneuvering mattered once you strip away the distraction of the complexities of the game mechanics and look at the pure dogfight.


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#24 cleardave

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:36 AM

Major Mishap said:

The game definately needs a rule for tailing an enemy ship as this is the most crucial position for any flying craft in any game or film or real-life.  A simple re-roll of a failed hit would suffice to give a bit of an advantage for maneuvering into a good position.

The "rule" is already provided for in the game; if you're a TIE Fighter tailing an X-Wing, you have the advantage because the X-Wing cannot fire back at you while you stay out of its fire arc.  Additionally, you can, as a TIE, make use of barrel rolls if you move second in that scenario, to ensure that the X-Wing will have a harder time slipping away.

Also, as the X-Wing, you can use Expert Handling to do the same thing.

I think all of this works well as an abstract of "real life" because in real life, much like this game, you'd have no idea whether your target is going to suddenly bolt left or right, and guessing wrong will allow them to get away and possibly turn the tables.

From the Empire, Mauler and Backstabber I believe both work quite well in this scenario, and Wedge sort of works the same way by taking away an opponent's Evade.



#25 Hashik

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:21 AM

Given the fact this game is designed to give the feel of a fast and furious dogfight, I would also have to fall on the side of keeping the rules simple.

As far as positioning advantage goes, others have already mentioned the advantage of getting outside of your opponent's firing arc,  Add to that the advantage for being at close range with standard weapons (+1 attack die) and the defense advantage for putting yourself at long range against standard weapons (+1 defense die) and I think you have the perfect mix of simplicity and realism.



#26 magadizer

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:56 AM

 I looked closer at the picture of the Falcon and the Slave 1 on the banner on the FFG home page. It looks like the Slave 1 has TWO firing arcs, in the front and in the back. You can't sneak up on Boba Fett.

Also, the Falcon has some sort of arrow rotating around the base peg, which seems to say that there will be some sort of rotating action or motion you can do, if not a TIE-style barrel roll.


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#27 cleardave

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:09 AM

magadizer said:

 I looked closer at the picture of the Falcon and the Slave 1 on the banner on the FFG home page. It looks like the Slave 1 has TWO firing arcs, in the front and in the back. You can't sneak up on Boba Fett.

Also, the Falcon has some sort of arrow rotating around the base peg, which seems to say that there will be some sort of rotating action or motion you can do, if not a TIE-style barrel roll.

I would imagine the rear arc for Slave I is for deploying those blasted seismic charges at anyone who tries to get into range 1 back there for maximum damage.

As for the Falcon's 360 arrow on the ship token, maybe it has something to do with an upgrade card?  I don't think it relates to the Boost action, because there doesn't appear to be something like that on the A-Wing ship token.  I would have also guessed it would have something to do with the turrets, but the Y-Wing has a 360 arc with the Ion Cannon and there isnt' an arrow on that base either.

Also, while we're on the subject of the Falcon, check out this image and look closely at the upgrade cards;

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1420389/star-wars-x-wing-miniatures-game-millenium-falco?size=medium

…is that a Luke Skywalker upgrade card?  I'd assume that would put him in as a gunner, and presumably prevent you from running his X-Wing pilot version in the same game.



#28 magadizer

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:13 AM

 It does look like a Luke Skywalker card. Hmmm….

 

I have a guess about the revolving arrow. Perhaps at the end of a movement or once during the combat phase or something, you can lift the cardboard insert, and rotate it to face a different direction? Then your firing arc would change, but perhaps also the direction you could move the next time?


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#29 Nalydd

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:28 AM

The arrow on the MF card could be because the turret(s) are a primary weapon, on the Y-wing the turret is an optional upgrade and would not appear on the base card.



#30 cleardave

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:43 AM

Nalydd said:

The arrow on the MF card could be because the turret(s) are a primary weapon, on the Y-wing the turret is an optional upgrade and would not appear on the base card.

I thought that too, but I don't see anything in the pile of cards in the pictures seen here and on BGG that suggest that is the case.  If there was a special 360 degree turret arc, I'd imagine there would be a little rules card for it.  We can see one for the Boost Action.  I'm not saying that isn't the case, but I would be surprised if it was, assuming everything we've seen in the released photos of the components are all-inclusive.

I quite like the little rules cards and maneuver charts in the packs.  Easy to sleeve and leave on the table for player reference, as needed.  Especially the maneuver charts.  I just cut them out of the expansion inserts to fit a card sleeve and they work great.

 



#31 dbmeboy

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:16 PM

I'm also guessing that the circular arrow thing on the Falcon is because of the turret main weapon having a 360 arc (and the "normal" firing arc in the front being for missiles), but that's just a guess.



#32 Daveydavedave

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:26 PM

dbmeboy said:

I'm also guessing that the circular arrow thing on the Falcon is because of the turret main weapon having a 360 arc (and the "normal" firing arc in the front being for missiles), but that's just a guess.

I concur.  The Falcon appears to have 360 shooting, and possibly a weapon which only fires in the forward arc.

I don't think that the Falcon will be wicked maneuverable on the table.  It will probably be kinda sluggish compared to ties and x-wings.  

When flying around Star Destroyers, the Falcon looks like a gnat buzzing around a 747, dipping and diving.  But vs Tie Fighters the Falcon was relatively slow and the Tie Fighters were much more nimble.  Han was a more daring pilot which was why he shot the gap of that asteroid chasm while the ties crashed and burned.  The shields and moveable turrets were the Falcon's advantage vs ties in open space.

In Return of the Jedi, Lando flew more like a fighter with lots of tight turns and banking maneuvers.  So I'm not saying the Falcon should be a dog.  It just wouldn't surprise me if it's not quite as nimble as a tie. 

Anyway, my point is this: I think everyone expects the Falcon to be as, or more, maneuverable than the other fighters already in the game.  I don't think this is a realistic expectation of an abstract game model on a super sized 4x base, and I don't think it would be true to cannon either.



#33 cleardave

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:44 PM

 From what I can gather, squinting at the ship token, it looks like it will be Agility 1, so it'll be easy to hit, if you can get it in your firing arc.  It packs 5 shields and like a 6 or 8 hull, so it's not going to go down easily, by any means.

It can also take an evade action.

Hopefully it can't take an Astromech, because I think it would be pretty cheap to have R2-D2 regenerating shields in that thing.

It looks like the Han Solo card is Pilot Skill 9 at 47 points.

The Falcon looks like it will be beastly, but at 47 points, not including upgrades, of which it can take 4, you won't have room for much else at 100pts.



#34 magadizer

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:10 AM

Daveydavedave said:

dbmeboy said:

 

I don't think that the Falcon will be wicked maneuverable on the table.  It will probably be kinda sluggish compared to ties and x-wings.  

When flying around Star Destroyers, the Falcon looks like a gnat buzzing around a 747, dipping and diving.  But vs Tie Fighters the Falcon was relatively slow and the Tie Fighters were much more nimble.  Han was a more daring pilot which was why he shot the gap of that asteroid chasm while the ties crashed and burned.  The shields and moveable turrets were the Falcon's advantage vs ties in open space.

In Return of the Jedi, Lando flew more like a fighter with lots of tight turns and banking maneuvers.  So I'm not saying the Falcon should be a dog.  It just wouldn't surprise me if it's not quite as nimble as a tie. 

Anyway, my point is this: I think everyone expects the Falcon to be as, or more, maneuverable than the other fighters already in the game.  I don't think this is a realistic expectation of an abstract game model on a super sized 4x base, and I don't think it would be true to cannon either.

 

You make a good argument. In the original movie, regular TIES with expendable pilots (we know they were "letting them get away") could literally run circles around the Falcon.

 

The Falcon is fast "past lightspeed" in interstellar travel. But it should definitely have a couple tricks and twists of movement that make it special as well. The maneuvers between asteroids, space slug teeth, and in the Death Star II corridors are signature stuff….even if it does lose a radar dish sometimes under a less expert pilot. :)


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