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Genesis Data Pack Cycle


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#21 Silent Requiem

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:23 AM

I think he simply means that there is no point in providing three copies of each identity card in an expansion. Assuming they recognise this (and the format of the core set suggests that they do), they will only put in one copy of each new identity card, which leaves unused slots in each 60 card expansion. These slots cannot be filled by non-identity cards because they have said that all other cards will come in threes. The most effective way to deal with this would be to put three singleton identity cards together in a single expansion, with 19 other cards appearing three times.

 

However, if each faction is getting a new identity, that is at least seven identities. Assuming they follow the obvious pattern I suggested, it means that there are two unused singleton spaces that cannot be used for non-identity cards. I therefore assume that some factions will be getting more than one additional identity.



#22 sinnerfold

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:00 AM

Silent Requiem said:

I think he simply means that there is no point in providing three copies of each identity card in an expansion. Assuming they recognise this (and the format of the core set suggests that they do), they will only put in one copy of each new identity card, which leaves unused slots in each 60 card expansion. These slots cannot be filled by non-identity cards because they have said that all other cards will come in threes. The most effective way to deal with this would be to put three singleton identity cards together in a single expansion, with 19 other cards appearing three times.

 

However, if each faction is getting a new identity, that is at least seven identities. Assuming they follow the obvious pattern I suggested, it means that there are two unused singleton spaces that cannot be used for non-identity cards. I therefore assume that some factions will be getting more than one additional identity.

 

If you read my original statement it very clearly states that they wouldn't be including 3 copies of a single identity but three identity cards for three different factions. That doesn't mean we're going to get 9 cards. It means 3 cards….total.



#23 booored

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:23 AM

Toqtamish said:

booored said:

 

exactly.. i thnk taht is a major mistake.. we should see new corp identity cards but it seams that the way they have designed the game will mean it will be hard for new corps identities to be added.

 

 

 

You are confusing identity with factions. We already know we are getting new identities, we have seen one already for Anarch in this thread that I posted at the start. New factions is what I was referring to and we probably won't see those till a deluxe expansion if at all. We already have 7 factions to flesh out. I don't see the need for new factions so soon for either side of things.

yeah.. but what i was trying to say is that it is easy for new identities to be added to the runners.. (example this new pack coming out) but very hard for new corporations to be added, and even if they are adding whole new corporations in major expansions as new factions.. they can not be adding many or it will dilute the card pool of the individual packs.. I assume we are already only getting 2 an avg for each faction per pack.

So the general thoughts are we will see "divisions" of the corps we have already seen. As this is the only way they can easily introduce new identities for the corporations.Like Wayland : Space Exploration Division or something like that.

I stand by what I said originally.. if the corp cards were not faction based but utility based.. and generic.. like instead of mass-bioroid being a faction and all those cards in that faction, the cards were just all themed on cyborgs and stuff, then they could realise as many single card identity for cyborg type companies that use those same cards.. just as the new orange runner used the anarch cards. I just feel the great addition of identities is very cool, and will keep runner decks feelign fresh and fun.. but we are stuck with these 4 corporations for eternity.


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#24 Stabintheface

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:30 AM

booored said:

 

I stand by what I said originally.. if the corp cards were not faction based but utility based.. and generic.. like instead of mass-bioroid being a faction and all those cards in that faction, the cards were just all themed on cyborgs and stuff, then they could realise as many single card identity for cyborg type companies that use those same cards.. just as the new orange runner used the anarch cards. I just feel the great addition of identities is very cool, and will keep runner decks feelign fresh and fun.. but we are stuck with these 4 corporations for eternity.

 

Wow. You made that sound gloomy, real quick. 

 

I personally can't wait to see what they'll release for this game, be it 60 card packs or deluxe expansions. 



#25 mothchoir

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:43 AM

I really can't wait to see what's in the first data pack, should be interesting to see what sort of new decks emerge. Whizzard seems to represent the more destructive elements of the Anarchs, just blowing stuff up rather than using viruses.



#26 Toqtamish

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:47 AM

booored said:

Toqtamish said:

 

booored said:

 

exactly.. i thnk taht is a major mistake.. we should see new corp identity cards but it seams that the way they have designed the game will mean it will be hard for new corps identities to be added.

 

 

 

You are confusing identity with factions. We already know we are getting new identities, we have seen one already for Anarch in this thread that I posted at the start. New factions is what I was referring to and we probably won't see those till a deluxe expansion if at all. We already have 7 factions to flesh out. I don't see the need for new factions so soon for either side of things.

 

 

yeah.. but what i was trying to say is that it is easy for new identities to be added to the runners.. (example this new pack coming out) but very hard for new corporations to be added, and even if they are adding whole new corporations in major expansions as new factions.. they can not be adding many or it will dilute the card pool of the individual packs.. I assume we are already only getting 2 an avg for each faction per pack.

So the general thoughts are we will see "divisions" of the corps we have already seen. As this is the only way they can easily introduce new identities for the corporations.Like Wayland : Space Exploration Division or something like that.

I stand by what I said originally.. if the corp cards were not faction based but utility based.. and generic.. like instead of mass-bioroid being a faction and all those cards in that faction, the cards were just all themed on cyborgs and stuff, then they could realise as many single card identity for cyborg type companies that use those same cards.. just as the new orange runner used the anarch cards. I just feel the great addition of identities is very cool, and will keep runner decks feelign fresh and fun.. but we are stuck with these 4 corporations for eternity.

 

Kinda jumping to conclusions there…I don't see how it as any more difficult than adding new runners for each of the 3 factions. If anything I would want to see a new runner faction before a new corp but considering we already have 7 factions I don't see any new factions coming any time soon.

 

It is pretty obvious they will be adding divisions for the current corps with new special abilities. Sounds great to me. I cannot wait to start getting the data packs and first cycle completed will open up so much deck building possibilities.



#27 ChaosChild

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:52 AM

sinnerfold said:

Silent Requiem said:

 

I think he simply means that there is no point in providing three copies of each identity card in an expansion. Assuming they recognise this (and the format of the core set suggests that they do), they will only put in one copy of each new identity card, which leaves unused slots in each 60 card expansion. These slots cannot be filled by non-identity cards because they have said that all other cards will come in threes. The most effective way to deal with this would be to put three singleton identity cards together in a single expansion, with 19 other cards appearing three times.

 

However, if each faction is getting a new identity, that is at least seven identities. Assuming they follow the obvious pattern I suggested, it means that there are two unused singleton spaces that cannot be used for non-identity cards. I therefore assume that some factions will be getting more than one additional identity.

 

 

 

If you read my original statement it very clearly states that they wouldn't be including 3 copies of a single identity but three identity cards for three different factions. That doesn't mean we're going to get 9 cards. It means 3 cards….total.

Each data pack consists of 20 cards, 3 copies of each - that's pretty clear from the announcement. This means (going by previous LCGs) that we'll get 3 copies of Whizzard in the first data pack, even though the 2nd and 3rd copies will be next to useless. We are NOT going to see singleton identity cards in the packs, doing so is just too complicated/costly for FFG. It's actually cheaper for them to put in extra, useless copies of the cards than it is to collate things to exclude them.



#28 Toqtamish

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:56 AM

If we do get extras the 2 extra copies can just be traded to friends or used with a different deck using the same character. There is times I wish I had a couple extra copies of the Game of Thrones house cards. In Lotr packs you get one copy of the new hero. Not sure how the rest of the pack works out to 3 per card I stopped playing it after the core set.



#29 badash56

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:01 AM

Guys, don't forget Lord of the Rings LCG.  Packs that contain new hero cards only come with a single copy.  It is entirely possible they will do the same with identity cards.

 



#30 kaffis

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:33 AM

Tokhuah said:


Corporations have a variety of divisions. For example, Symantec has customer facing anti-spam and security software, but they have other interests including military contracts. And how about Dow Chemical? Let's not even go there…

I can see Corps diversifying as much as Runners.

Speaking as an Anarchist player I am not loving the new guy as a concept. What I am hoping for are some additional killer viruses to make more Noise!

It would also be nice to have some bioroids that are not so easy to just click off…

I don't like this approach to Corps, though. Using your Symantec example, it would mean that once you introduce the security software division and the military contract division, now deck-building for Symantec means that I'm freely mixing military contract jelly with my anti-spam peanut butter. And that dilutes the character of the Corp, to me, when the Corps as originally presented in the Core Set are monolithic monopolies rather than sprawling diversified behemoths (well, Weyland is kind of the exception, in that it's portrayed as having a maze of diversified subsidiaries under its umbrella, but even there, there's a strong construction and real estate theme).

 

I'd much rather see new corps with a month or two of cards dedicated to them and some neutrals to get them up and running. The new identities for the same factions makes sense for Runners, though. And as for Whizzard, I'm the opposite -- Noise doesn't do much for me, but I could get behind playing an Anarch with Whizzard, who's far more interesting to me and will still get to play with some of the same toys and themes from a different angle.



#31 NNCSavage

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:28 AM

Scautura said:

Looking at the splayed cards in the middle:

Project Beale:

Rez: 3
Agenda: Score 1

When you score Project Beale, place 1 agenda counter on it for every 2 advancement tokens on it over 3.
Project Beale is worth 1 additional agenda point for each agenda counter on it.

This sounds similar to World Domination in implementation - WD gave extra agenda points when you scored it (but didn't cost extra for those points), but only gave the runner the base number of points. PB looks like it's good for faking out the runner - that unrezzed card with 5 advancement tokens on it, is it Project Junebug (taken as an OOF card), or is it Project Beale? Now the runner has to think a little harder.

 

 Pretty sure it's a direct copy of "Project Babylon" from the original game, albiet with updated wording.

 



#32 DeathByLiche

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:49 AM

Scautura said:

Looking at the splayed cards in the middle:

Project Beale:

Rez: 3
Agenda: Score 1

When you score Project Beale, place 1 agenda counter on it for every 2 advancement tokens on it over 3.
Project Beale is worth 1 additional agenda point for each agenda counter on it.

This sounds similar to World Domination in implementation - WD gave extra agenda points when you scored it (but didn't cost extra for those points), but only gave the runner the base number of points. PB looks like it's good for faking out the runner - that unrezzed card with 5 advancement tokens on it, is it Project Junebug (taken as an OOF card), or is it Project Beale? Now the runner has to think a little harder.

Just to be thorough, Project Beale is a direct remake of Project Babylon.



#33 Preek

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:54 AM

I think they will just publish new identity cars for the corps. Look at them. They have a subtitle with something like a "business concept" under their title.
Gaining 1 credit for the first card you install in a turn seems pretty "engineering the future" like. There is a connection, it makes sense to me. So there could be other Haas-Bioroid cards but with different effects and subtitles. These themes and card effects fit at the other Corp-ID-cards too. :)

Plus I think we will have for every Runner faction a new ID-card in the first Data Pack.



#34 jhaelen

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:56 AM

badash56 said:

 

Guys, don't forget Lord of the Rings LCG.  Packs that contain new hero cards only come with a single copy.  It is entirely possible they will do the same with identity cards.

 

Exactly. And since additional copies of identity cards would be useless, that was the basis for my assumption. They also did something like this for one of the CoC APs: It featured 12 individual story cards in addition to 16x3 'regular' cards.

 

Now for Netrunner, since they won't put 61 cards in one pack, they'd have to include three different identity cards into a single pack allowing for another 19x3 cards in that pack. If they had two such special packs in the first cycle there would still be one identity card missing. But if there's a third special identity pack, two slots would be left over.



#35 LordxMgen

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:24 AM

Preek said:

I think they will just publish new identity cars for the corps. Look at them. They have a subtitle with something like a "business concept" under their title.
Gaining 1 credit for the first card you install in a turn seems pretty "engineering the future" like. There is a connection, it makes sense to me. So there could be other Haas-Bioroid cards but with different effects and subtitles. These themes and card effects fit at the other Corp-ID-cards too. :)

Plus I think we will have for every Runner faction a new ID-card in the first Data Pack.

i think thats EXACTLY  whats going to happen with corp identities. same faction, different effect and subtitle.



#36 Toqtamish

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:36 AM

I agree that is most likely. 



#37 booored

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:09 AM

yeah I also think this is what is going to happen… I just think it is a bit of a let down, we get all these cool personalities for runners makign them fun and interesting, while corporations are all the same.. I still think it would have been better to do it the other way.. but i suppose it is to late now.

 

Back on Topic….. I think the new runner is very cool for anarch… Unless  you are playing with  criminal cards.. bits can be a real pain to collect… and his ability to help trash cards is going to be very handy.. not only that it is an ability that can trigger in any server so it will be hard to defend, as this guys ability will be relevent no matter what server you attack…. so his ability is less easy to strike down. 


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#38 NuFenix

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:18 AM

I think corps will get a public face to the company - Afterall, how many people associate Apple with Steve Jobs, Microsoft with Bill Gates, or even Sir Richard Branson with Virgin?



#39 PWBrian

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:31 AM

NuFenix said:

I think corps will get a public face to the company - Afterall, how many people associate Apple with Steve Jobs, Microsoft with Bill Gates, or even Sir Richard Branson with Virgin?

Seven.



#40 Griffonstone

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:15 PM

 Already expansions are to come out, which was to be the case, and I have yet to receive my pre-order of the core set.

Sigh 






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