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Blood for the Blood God - Tome of Blood officially announced!


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#21 ShadowRay

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:12 AM

Mainly because they would be an 'advanced' archeotype, You can't argue that if we get TSS and sorceror+3600xp, they aren't equal (which pains me a little to say the truth). TSS gets bonus base stats (paid for in xp, but not counted as such so his stat treashold is higher), bonus gear (which can be equalised by giving sorceror more starting aquisitions) and better archeotype ability (which sorceceror cannot get).
I'm not saying that I want to start as e.g. alpha legion and as a bonus gain psy rating; I'd happily sacrifice some of his abilities to gain psyker, and some skills/talents to exchange them for psy rating 1 and some psy powers.
It's my problem with new archeotypes, because I'd rather see differend legions as some sort of background packages than new archeotypes.



#22 Chastity

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

That's sort of the thing - the Thousand Sons Sorcerers are *supposed* to be better than other Sorcerers, because it's all they do.

If you want to play a Death Guard sorcerer, you just play a Sorcerer.



#23 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:53 AM

I have a feeling, that 4 Gods Handbooks, instead of one Player´s Handbook were chosen, becouse of coming CHSM Codex and possible revamping/reintroduction of Mark of Chaos Undivided for miniatures 40k. So it is possible that after the four god handbooks we will get IH/RoB sized Handbook for Undivided and unalinged players, which will incloude Black Legion.

Just speculating… 


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#24 Ryder

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:35 AM

I don't think they'll do Unaligned CSM legion archtypes beyond Alpha Legion and the Iron Warrirors, what exactly is their in a word bearer that can't properly be replicated by a Champion?



#25 Chastity

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:51 AM

Ryder said:

I don't think they'll do Unaligned CSM legion archtypes beyond Alpha Legion and the Iron Warrirors, what exactly is their in a word bearer that can't properly be replicated by a Champion?

To be fair, you could probably represent a member of the Alpha Legion fairly well with a Champion as well. The new Archetypes are, I suspect, mostly there to show the ways in which individual Legions can be modeled in the system, and to give fans of those legions something fun to play with.



#26 Deinos

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:30 PM

Ryder said:

I don't think they'll do Unaligned CSM legion archtypes beyond Alpha Legion and the Iron Warrirors, what exactly is their in a word bearer that can't properly be replicated by a Champion?

Its not going to just be, Generic Legion Dude. Its going to be iconic members of that legion. So for Thousand Sons, its the Sorcerer. For Word Bearers, it'll be the Nega-Chaplain. And its valid to want a Dark Chaplain or whatever they're called to be something special, as they're the only Chaplain type to have survived their legion intact, and are the ones that define the Word Bearers.

All of the loyalist founding chapters and several successor types deserve their own writeups, so all the chaos legions deserve their own specialty things. They should have abilities that are serious business.



#27 Plushy

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:17 PM

Deinos said:

Ryder said:

 

I don't think they'll do Unaligned CSM legion archtypes beyond Alpha Legion and the Iron Warrirors, what exactly is their in a word bearer that can't properly be replicated by a Champion?

 

 

Its not going to just be, Generic Legion Dude. Its going to be iconic members of that legion. So for Thousand Sons, its the Sorcerer. For Word Bearers, it'll be the Nega-Chaplain. And its valid to want a Dark Chaplain or whatever they're called to be something special, as they're the only Chaplain type to have survived their legion intact, and are the ones that define the Word Bearers.

All of the loyalist founding chapters and several successor types deserve their own writeups, so all the chaos legions deserve their own specialty things. They should have abilities that are serious business.

Thousand Sons Sorcerer

Alpha Legion Infiltrator

World Eaters Berserker

Iron Warriors Warsmith

Death Guard Plague Marine (might get a rename)

Emperor's Children Noise Marine

Night Lords Raptor

Word Bearers Dark Apostle

Black Legion Failure

 

Seems like our final list.


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#28 Ryder

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:57 PM

Plushy said:

Deinos said:

 

Ryder said:

 

I don't think they'll do Unaligned CSM legion archtypes beyond Alpha Legion and the Iron Warrirors, what exactly is their in a word bearer that can't properly be replicated by a Champion?

 

 

Its not going to just be, Generic Legion Dude. Its going to be iconic members of that legion. So for Thousand Sons, its the Sorcerer. For Word Bearers, it'll be the Nega-Chaplain. And its valid to want a Dark Chaplain or whatever they're called to be something special, as they're the only Chaplain type to have survived their legion intact, and are the ones that define the Word Bearers.

All of the loyalist founding chapters and several successor types deserve their own writeups, so all the chaos legions deserve their own specialty things. They should have abilities that are serious business.

 

 

Thousand Sons Sorcerer

Alpha Legion Infiltrator

World Eaters Berserker

Iron Warriors Warsmith

Death Guard Plague Marine (might get a rename)

Emperor's Children Noise Marine

Night Lords Raptor

Word Bearers Dark Apostle

Black Legion Failure

 

Seems like our final list.

Okay that actually is a fair list, I forgot about the Dark Apostles. Personally I would rather have something like a Fallen Dark Angel instead of the Night Lords but it still works.

 



#29 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

Black Legion failure! LOL!


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

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#30 Gurkhal

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:16 AM

H.B.M.C. said:

Black Legion failure! LOL!

I agree exactly. The notion that the Black Legion is some kind of failure is as unfounded as tiresome.



#31 Plushy

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

Gurkhal said:

H.B.M.C. said:

 

Black Legion failure! LOL!

 

 

I agree exactly. The notion that the Black Legion is some kind of failure is as unfounded as tiresome.

They lack any particular niche, and their fluff really boils down to 'a lot of failed Black Crusades.'


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#32 MILLANDSON

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:39 PM

Looking forward to this - I've always been a Khorne fan!


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#33 Gurkhal

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:02 PM

Plushy said:

Gurkhal said:

 

H.B.M.C. said:

 

Black Legion failure! LOL!

 

 

I agree exactly. The notion that the Black Legion is some kind of failure is as unfounded as tiresome.

 

 

They lack any particular niche, and their fluff really boils down to 'a lot of failed Black Crusades.'

Their niche is that they are the leaders of the Long War. And the Black Crusades are mostly stopped, according to what the Imperials thinks of it. If I'm not mistaken its said that Abbadon reached every objective with each Black Crusade he launched. I can agree that its entirely possible that the first and second Black Crusades were actually stopped. But beyond them the goal have always seemed to have been more limited in scope and more successful than not.



#34 JediMike42

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:30 AM

Gurkhal said:

Plushy said:

 

Gurkhal said:

 

H.B.M.C. said:

 

Black Legion failure! LOL!

 

 

I agree exactly. The notion that the Black Legion is some kind of failure is as unfounded as tiresome.

 

 

They lack any particular niche, and their fluff really boils down to 'a lot of failed Black Crusades.'

 

 

Their niche is that they are the leaders of the Long War. And the Black Crusades are mostly stopped, according to what the Imperials thinks of it. If I'm not mistaken its said that Abbadon reached every objective with each Black Crusade he launched. I can agree that its entirely possible that the first and second Black Crusades were actually stopped. But beyond them the goal have always seemed to have been more limited in scope and more successful than not.

Failure just isn't how you're going to put it.

Relentless Black Legionary sounds more like what we're going for.

(Unrelenting/Unyielding would be alternatives but typically you want to keep prefixes out of titles)

Tomatoe, tomah-toe.

 



#35 Deinos

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:43 AM

Plushy said:

 

They lack any particular niche, and their fluff really boils down to 'a lot of failed Black Crusades.'

They lack a niche? They were the absolute first group of chaos dudes to go "Hey, well, we can serve different gods while working together."

If they seem boring or generic, it is only because the Black Legion's style of cooperative chaos has become the gold standard. Black Crusade, and Chaos in both WHFB and 40k, are largely patterned off the Black Legion's schtick of differing alignments cooperating together.

Chaos Marines towards the end of the 40k timeline barely ever seem to be a threat unless its the Alpha Legion (who are #1 at operating in imperial space), the Word Bearers (who, I have heard, are the only Legion that still cooperates and functions like a Legion still), or if the Black Legion has instigated an alliance.



#36 Blood Pact

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 05:08 PM

I've always thought an Unaligned book was going to happen anyway, and since someone mentioned The Fallen earlier, it occurs to me they'd make a good Legion Archetype to include alongside the Black Legion.

I've also come around to mind that the 'advanced Archetypes' aren't the end-all be-all representation of the Legions. And there's no reason you can't be an Alpha Legion Renegade, or a Thousand Sons Chosen. What we see in Tome of Fate can quite certainly be taken as an example of an eminent member of the Legion. Certainly not everyone from Q'sal is some master sorcerer.

What wouldn't be bad is to have a way to 'buy in' to one of them. Just something shorthand. And whether it would be alright to keep the original Archetype ability, for the hassle.



#37 Plushy

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:35 PM

 I'm eager for Iron Warriors and Word Bearer rules. Daemon Princes, too.

The new Chaos dex adds nice stuff. The Warpsmith and Warp Talons both seem like solid Archetypes, and I can't wait for new Daemon Engine beasties.


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#38 Deinos

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:11 AM

A Thousand Son Chosen would be mildly odd, as they do not begin with sorcery and they do not begin as a pile of dust… only thing I could think of a Thousand Son Chosen as representing, would be if they stuck their geneseed into a non-psyker.



#39 JediMike42

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:52 PM

I forget which Horus Heresy book it's in, but one of the Thousand Sons willingly purposefully cuts himself off from the Warp. A Chosen could potentially be going about the whole bit to gain the favor of Tzeentch and once again delve into Immaterium, regaining his psychic abilities.



#40 Blood Pact

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:53 PM

It's not as if the "psyker" trait is sacrosanct, any idiot can dabble in sorcery (and most of those idiots rightly go up in a ball of flame) nonetheless. And in a game that people are always gushing over being so much better cause it's free-form and classless (a matter of personal opinion, I find that I like the systems different, for different games, accross the board), I'm certainly not going to sit back and let the Archetype I chose at the begining determine whether or not I can eventually get some psychic powers. Especially since in Black Crusade, actual sorcery and psykery aren't differentiated, like they are in.. well, I guess Dark Heresy is the only one with Sorcery, but moving on…

Now you're a member of the Pavoni, or one of the other more martial schools of psychic discipline that was concieved by Magnus. Your lesser psychic ability a result of your school's focus on a variety of martial pursuits, as opposed to the more esoteric disciplines, that involve seeing the future or telepathy, rather than smashing things with telekinesis or lighting them on fire (still hard, I know).

Despite their reputation, it's not like every Thousand Son (whose not an empty suit of armour) is a master sorcerer extroidinaire. As a group they're the best, but with every group you find members all along the bell curve. Ahriman and his cabal would be at one end, while most everyone else would occupy the middle. And I'd hardly consider a starting character's (albeit a 6,000 xp one) place on that curve to be an accurate measurement of their power, or its limits. Though it seems likely that they'd always be a step behind any full sorcerer.

 

All that said, you're right. It's all the more likely that the 'typical' Thousand Sons sorcerer would be represented by the standard Archetype, with the true masters by the one found in the book.






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