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#21 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 07:35 AM

Hakken said:

 

Off course it has. Wiki is powerful, especially, when one is to lazy to write ;)

Wikipedia is the modern substitute for actually knowing things, just like TvTropes.org is the modern substitute for having your own opinions.


Writing Credits for Fantasy Flight Games: Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss, Battlefleet Koronus, Hostile Acquisitions, Black Crusade Core Rulebook, First Founding, The Jericho Reach, The Soul Reaver, Only War, The Navis Primer,Ark of Lost Souls, and Hammer of the Emperor

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#22 Psion

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 09:54 AM

Peacekeeper_b said:

Kaiohx said:

 

While dealing with xenos is frowned upon, Rogue Traders are one of the few things within the Imperium that can, and do, interact with them. Its not unheard of for them to deal with Tau, Elder, or even sometimes Orks (Bloodaxes mainly). Im also pretty sure they are in the Dark Heresy: Creatures Anaethma have eldar in it, so I don't think it would be very hard to make eldritch raiders up.

 

 

Corsair Raiders appear in Purge the Unclean!

Actually those were Dark Eldar (same physiology, WAAAAAY different technology) although granted, good players wouldn't let their characters know the difference.

And I agree with the sentiment that xeno characters should wait for their own supplement.  I do not own but I have seen and read Dark Heresy and it is a thick book.  It also takes you by the hand and assumes you have no idea what 40k is; going to great lengths to describe a particular spit of space and getting you into the Imperium mindset.  It can be assumed that Rogue Trader is the same case; a weighty tome that covers pages upon pages of weapons (many which are likely to be repeats of DH,) character options, gear (again, some repeats,) combat rules, environmental hazards, and I'm sure there's going to be a section for Rogue Traders on dealing with what might end up becoming the most alien of all societies they run into; the Imperium itself.

Holding off for a seperate book might be better off, especially to answer interesting questions such as the Tau (just how does a "Rogue Trader" work in their society, which has five genetically different castes and at least two client species?)

 



#23 RedMike

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 11:11 AM

On the subject of the Tau, it seems unlikely FFG would produce rules for them as PCs, given the distance between Calixis and the Tau Empire - having said that 'Ravenor' featured a Kroot mercanary operating with some badass Rogue Trader types, and I might be right in saying that that was set in the nearby Scarus Sector.  

I would love the inclusion of xenos races as PCs - not in some cheap attempt to imitate WFRP in space, but with a chunky supplement to introduce them I think for an experienced RPer this could be an excellent chance to play an unusual character type - with goals and drives different to a human. 



#24 Psion

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 12:14 PM

RedMike said:

On the subject of the Tau, it seems unlikely FFG would produce rules for them as PCs, given the distance between Calixis and the Tau Empire - having said that 'Ravenor' featured a Kroot mercanary operating with some badass Rogue Trader types, and I might be right in saying that that was set in the nearby Scarus Sector.  

I would love the inclusion of xenos races as PCs - not in some cheap attempt to imitate WFRP in space, but with a chunky supplement to introduce them I think for an experienced RPer this could be an excellent chance to play an unusual character type - with goals and drives different to a human. 

Has it been said where RT will be set in?  I mean it's likely they won't get much more then a footnote mention but I wouldn't rule out anything yet.



#25 Hakken

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 03:27 AM

N0-1_H3r3 said:

 

Wikipedia is the modern substitute for actually knowing things, just like TvTropes.org is the modern substitute for having your own opinions.

 

Just like books :P

I'm sorry if I offended somebody giving links to wiki instead of writing long post myself...

Is there any problem with that?



#26 RedMike

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 12:58 AM

Just to reply to your point...

It's just my assumption that RT will be in the same general location as DH, with the Halo Stars literally on the doorstep, and a ready made setting in the Calixis Sector.  It would seem a natural link with the previous game as well, without having to decamp halfway across the Imperium.

Obviously, that wouldn't stop anyone from doing that anyway if they wanted!



#27 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 02:07 AM

Based on how the book adventures have been going for Dark Heresy, I would say the Haarlock books lead straight into Rogue Trader, so probably 816M41 or so.

I recall Tau being mentioned in the Scourge the Heretic novel, while that may be author error, it gives a precendent for Tau in Calixis.

But mark my words, Rogue Trader will be set in the Calixis Sector/Halo Stars, and it will be set in the same time as the Dark Heresy setting. Most likely those two games are going to meta plot to Death Watch, with some sort of Tyrant Star Crusade.



#28 Maxim C. Gatling

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 11:37 AM

I disagree.  They're all evil.  Even the Imperium is evil.  I didn't realize it until I completed the Dawn of War campaign, but even the Tau are evil (and racist).

Just cause you dig 'em doesn't mean they're not evil.  Just means you're biased   Nuthin' wrong with that.

As for playing Eldar pirates...

Why not?  Critter's Anathema has the basic stats.  Hopefully RT will give stats for their ships...  All you have to do is create some character progression charts.

If you wait until something "official" is printed before you include it in your game, you're missing out on 90% of the 40k Universe.



#29 BloodAngelAzrael

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 06:50 AM

Well, actually, I believe the only reason the Imperium hates Xenos is because if one planet allies with Xenos, then another allies, then another, then another, then a sector, then A SEGMENTUM unrealistically. Then the Xenos have access to Imperial space, Weapons, Troops, Equipment, and they can Invade Imperial space easily.

Xenos takeover... Not good. That's why the Imperium fools it's citizens into thinking all Xenos are evil... Well... they all wan't to kill us anyway.



#30 Kage2020

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 01:52 PM

Maxim C. Gatling said:

I disagree.  They're all evil.  Even the Imperium is evil.  I didn't realize it until I completed the Dawn of War campaign, but even the Tau are evil (and racist).

Just cause you dig 'em doesn't mean they're not evil.  Just means you're biased   Nuthin' wrong with that. 

LOL.  Nothing better than getting "in character" for the Imperium. 

Maxim C. Gatling said:

As for playing Eldar pirates...

Why not?  Critter's Anathema has the basic stats.  Hopefully RT will give stats for their ships...  All you have to do is create some character progression charts.

If you wait until something "official" is printed before you include it in your game, you're missing out on 90% of the 40k Universe.

Amen to that.  It's amazing how reticent people are to express their creativity in the fear that they are at some point or other going to be contradicted.  Who cares about that?

Kage



#31 Nash

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 05:21 PM

I've had to put quite a bit of thought into "Piracy" in the 40k'verse for reasons of my own and I think the scope of it would be quite broader and different than what was adressed in this thread so far...

First, of course, there would be the Eldar Corsairs (yes, I'd rather use that word --but then I'm French ;) ), aka semi-exiled Craftworlders who prey upon non-eldar vessels (and/or vessels from other Craftworlds) for their own alien reasons... And there would be Eldar Pirates, aka Dark Eldar, the "evil" ones who simply attack vessels because it's "fun", and because they need souls/slaves of course.
And that's more or less what has been covered here...
There would of course also be other xenos types who would commit acts of piracy, some with "good" reasons, others just "for fun". The Ork Freebootaz of old are the first example that comes to my mind but would clearly not be the only ones...

But those would only be NPCs in any of my campaigns, simply because I'm not keen on letting my players' characters be of xenos origin, for a simple reason: because none of my players (currently) has what it takes to correctly play a xenos. Eldar, for example, don't think like humans and thus don't act like humans. But because of anthropomorphism issues, it would be hard for most players (and for most GMs too actually) to correctly incarnate such alien creatures.

However, human pirates are very interesting IMHO. If you leave aside all Chaos-affiliated raiders, they would be of 3 kinds:

  1. First, those without Warp-capable vessels, which I nicknamed "Spacegulls", because like their avian counterparts you only encounter them when you're close enough to "land". Those would roam the neighborhood of Warp jump-points to attack vessels about to leave the system or just entering it... They at first seem to be likely to be the most frequent but actually it'd probably be the contrary. The existence of Spacegulls would require systems which would be "backwater" enough for the Navy to be quite absent (because the Spacegulls' small intrasystem vessels wouldn't be able to survive in a Navy-rich environment) but technologically advanced enough that "human-scum" can get their hands on any kind of space-worthy vessel to begin with. And such environments aren't really the norm in the 40k'verse.
    The most likely situation in which Spacegulls could exist would be in systems where the Imperial Governor (or anyone with high-enough authority) is corrupt and has become the patron of such lowly scavengers... After all, if the local Adeptus' records say a shipment never made it planetside because of pirates, there would be no tithe to pay, hence more money for the Guilds/Governor to make in the end.
  2. Then, the "Opportunists", those would actually be merchantmen, Rogue Traders and lesser "sanctionned merchantmen", which would, once in while, get the opportunity to "salvage" goods from other merchantmen. That they had to kill the whole crew of the other merchantman's vessel first is just a "detail"... I'd say these would be the most current simply because getting a space-worthy vessel, and even more a Warp-able one, would require to be "sanctionned" in some way... These would also include Navy vessels, not unlike the Relentless at a certain point in its history, who would use the Imperial authority they are supposed to represent for their own purpose. But the Opportunists would obviously put the blame on either "Spacegulls" or upon the last group of pirates...
  3. The last group would be Renegades, not Chaos-affiliated but rather "separatists"... The Imperium doesn't have the ressources to crush all the separatists "in the egg" and, while it will sooner or later send a force to deal with any such "threat", there would still be a place for those separatists to use their temporary freedom to prey upon Imperial shipping lanes. There would also be forces of former Navy vessels, which once were in the Opportunist category but were "uncovered" and had to flee to a more remote place, further from Imperial-controlled space (some Renegade SM Chapters may even fall into this category). But this last type of pirates would probably be most quickly dealt with by the Imperial authorities because of the moral threat they represent... Can't let the separatists survive or the neighboring system/sub-sector might get bad ideas.

And of course there's also the question of "fake pirates" to keep in mind, even if it would be of less interest in the RPG (or would it?): Merchants clearly have to pay tithes upon what they transport, the Adeptus would perhaps (yes, that's not even sure) accept that they don't pay tithes upon stuff that was stolen by pirates and thus some merchantmen might be tempted to invent an attack of pirates to make a part of their cargo "dissapear from the records"... I don't think the Adeptus would like it very much (<--big euphemism) and such liars would probably find themselves in big trouble if the Adeptus got any clue that the so-called "pirates" never existed.
Some players could be tempted to try such a trick, even if on a lower scale, telling their "patron" RT that they have been attacked while they sold the goods on the black market, but, since the patron would then have to report the attack to the Adeptus to get his "tax-cut" and would thus take the risk of Imperial retribution in the case of a "fake report of piracy", he would probably not be kind upon his subordinates if he has the very-slightest doubt... 

Well, I've only brushed the surface but I think I've covered the basics.



#32 Sol Invictus

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 10:55 AM


 

RedMike said:

 

Has it been said where RT will be set in?  I mean it's likely they won't get much more then a footnote mention but I wouldn't rule out anything yet.

 

 

It seems to me that RT is supposed to be deal alot more with things outside the Imperium. Since Rogue Traders are pretty much the only Imperial citizens with a "license" to interact and trade with xenos or really leave the Imperium for that matter. I am excited to see human worlds that have not been polluted by Imperial dogma.

I think having playable Alien races would be pretty sweet if not somewhat hard to do given the hate everyone in 40k has for everyone else. Also I think I'll have my group practice piracy on the Eldar! Ha! Take that!

What happens outside the Imperium stays outside the Imperium.



#33 warmastertyrik

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:30 AM

 Will it would be cool to creat the ork free booter pirates they would come down and say " ello hume wes ere for plunder now hand it over u git " or the dark eldar " dont warry ripping your soul and mind rome your body wont hurt much HA! HA! HA! " or the eldar " we are shadows for hire " or humans " HA!HA! whos paying more no answer ill work all sides " or the tau " the greater good HA! what greater good is there but mine " or chaos " lets take a few worlds no one will notice will maybe just the worlds we take " or necrons " we take all diseased living and make then the will dead " and last but not least the tyranid " dont worry you all will be ours soon ".

Will it would make for some strange tails at least



#34 Anonymus

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 03:40 AM

warmastertyrik said:

 Will it would be cool to creat the ork free booter pirates they would come down and say " ello hume wes ere for plunder now hand it over u git " or the dark eldar " dont warry ripping your soul and mind rome your body wont hurt much HA! HA! HA! " or the eldar " we are shadows for hire " or humans " HA!HA! whos paying more no answer ill work all sides " or the tau " the greater good HA! what greater good is there but mine " or chaos " lets take a few worlds no one will notice will maybe just the worlds we take " or necrons " we take all diseased living and make then the will dead " and last but not least the tyranid " dont worry you all will be ours soon ".

Will it would make for some strange tails at least

 

Strange tails indeed!



#35 rustorod

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:25 AM

I like your thoughts, could make for some compelling scenarios.

 

Thanks.

Mike



#36 rustorod

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:29 AM

I meant to quote this, but I like the thoughts here.  Gives me some good ideas, thanks.

Mike

 

Nash said:

I've had to put quite a bit of thought into "Piracy" in the 40k'verse for reasons of my own and I think the scope of it would be quite broader and different than what was adressed in this thread so far...

First, of course, there would be the Eldar Corsairs (yes, I'd rather use that word --but then I'm French ;) ), aka semi-exiled Craftworlders who prey upon non-eldar vessels (and/or vessels from other Craftworlds) for their own alien reasons... And there would be Eldar Pirates, aka Dark Eldar, the "evil" ones who simply attack vessels because it's "fun", and because they need souls/slaves of course.
And that's more or less what has been covered here...
There would of course also be other xenos types who would commit acts of piracy, some with "good" reasons, others just "for fun". The Ork Freebootaz of old are the first example that comes to my mind but would clearly not be the only ones...

But those would only be NPCs in any of my campaigns, simply because I'm not keen on letting my players' characters be of xenos origin, for a simple reason: because none of my players (currently) has what it takes to correctly play a xenos. Eldar, for example, don't think like humans and thus don't act like humans. But because of anthropomorphism issues, it would be hard for most players (and for most GMs too actually) to correctly incarnate such alien creatures.

However, human pirates are very interesting IMHO. If you leave aside all Chaos-affiliated raiders, they would be of 3 kinds:

  1. First, those without Warp-capable vessels, which I nicknamed "Spacegulls", because like their avian counterparts you only encounter them when you're close enough to "land". Those would roam the neighborhood of Warp jump-points to attack vessels about to leave the system or just entering it... They at first seem to be likely to be the most frequent but actually it'd probably be the contrary. The existence of Spacegulls would require systems which would be "backwater" enough for the Navy to be quite absent (because the Spacegulls' small intrasystem vessels wouldn't be able to survive in a Navy-rich environment) but technologically advanced enough that "human-scum" can get their hands on any kind of space-worthy vessel to begin with. And such environments aren't really the norm in the 40k'verse.
    The most likely situation in which Spacegulls could exist would be in systems where the Imperial Governor (or anyone with high-enough authority) is corrupt and has become the patron of such lowly scavengers... After all, if the local Adeptus' records say a shipment never made it planetside because of pirates, there would be no tithe to pay, hence more money for the Guilds/Governor to make in the end.
  2. Then, the "Opportunists", those would actually be merchantmen, Rogue Traders and lesser "sanctionned merchantmen", which would, once in while, get the opportunity to "salvage" goods from other merchantmen. That they had to kill the whole crew of the other merchantman's vessel first is just a "detail"... I'd say these would be the most current simply because getting a space-worthy vessel, and even more a Warp-able one, would require to be "sanctionned" in some way... These would also include Navy vessels, not unlike the Relentless at a certain point in its history, who would use the Imperial authority they are supposed to represent for their own purpose. But the Opportunists would obviously put the blame on either "Spacegulls" or upon the last group of pirates...
  3. The last group would be Renegades, not Chaos-affiliated but rather "separatists"... The Imperium doesn't have the ressources to crush all the separatists "in the egg" and, while it will sooner or later send a force to deal with any such "threat", there would still be a place for those separatists to use their temporary freedom to prey upon Imperial shipping lanes. There would also be forces of former Navy vessels, which once were in the Opportunist category but were "uncovered" and had to flee to a more remote place, further from Imperial-controlled space (some Renegade SM Chapters may even fall into this category). But this last type of pirates would probably be most quickly dealt with by the Imperial authorities because of the moral threat they represent... Can't let the separatists survive or the neighboring system/sub-sector might get bad ideas.

And of course there's also the question of "fake pirates" to keep in mind, even if it would be of less interest in the RPG (or would it?): Merchants clearly have to pay tithes upon what they transport, the Adeptus would perhaps (yes, that's not even sure) accept that they don't pay tithes upon stuff that was stolen by pirates and thus some merchantmen might be tempted to invent an attack of pirates to make a part of their cargo "dissapear from the records"... I don't think the Adeptus would like it very much (<--big euphemism) and such liars would probably find themselves in big trouble if the Adeptus got any clue that the so-called "pirates" never existed.
Some players could be tempted to try such a trick, even if on a lower scale, telling their "patron" RT that they have been attacked while they sold the goods on the black market, but, since the patron would then have to report the attack to the Adeptus to get his "tax-cut" and would thus take the risk of Imperial retribution in the case of a "fake report of piracy", he would probably not be kind upon his subordinates if he has the very-slightest doubt... 

Well, I've only brushed the surface but I think I've covered the basics.



#37 Anonymus

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 09:35 AM

I just HAVE to enlighten people here about some blackpowerPIRATEmetal (yes you read pirate!) : Alestorm. :P Sorry for OT.






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