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Curse of the Monkey God


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#1 any2cards

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:06 AM

For those of you who have played D1e, you know that when you were turned into a monkey, all you could do was move up to a speed of 5.  You could not accomplish anything else on your turn.

In D2e, the Saboteur II card Curse of the Monkey God states the following:

"Play this card after a hero searches.  That hero tests Knowledge.  If he passes, draw 1 Overlord card.  If he fails, he becomes a monkey until the end of his next turn.  Take 1 of his hero tokens as a reminder.  Monkeys cannot roll defense dice (except to test an attribute), have a Speed of 5, and cannot attack for any reason".

Last night, as Overlord, I was able to successfully play this card on a hero.  Unfortunately, it resulted in quite a debate.  Having extensive D1e experience, I assumed that this hero would not be able to do anything but move around the board for two turns with a speed of 5.

They took the card very literally (perhaps correctly), and stated that their monkey could search, speed fatigue, open/close doors, pickup/destroy objective tokens, utilize any skill cards in front of him, etc.

Now I definitely can see their side of things.  After all, the hero is not removed from the board and replace by a moneky token (like D1e), it is permitted to perform attribute checks, etc.

Obviously, this greatly diminshes the value of this particular card.  Its value is making the hero defenseless, and hopefully easier to kill.

I am curious as to how other's have played if a hero was successfully cursed.



#2 Rico

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:12 AM

You were not kidding when you said in an earlier post that you play with a bunch of rules lawyers! We play that the monkey only moves, but now that your friends point it out, I suppose it's a valid argument. Still, we'll continue the way we have been playing - the card is actually not that great (at least in our games) since most of the hero searches occur after all monsters have been defeated.



#3 Coldmoonrising

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:10 AM

After reviewing the card, yes it is greatly different than the previous one. The only reason I could see using this card is to burn down tanks or anyone with crazy defense. You get one (or two) turns to target that hero and hopefully destroy him/her in those few attacks. This is my perspective on the card and maybe not such a terrible card when you think about the proper way to play it.



#4 Rico

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:35 PM

Coldmoonrising said:

After reviewing the card, yes it is greatly different than the previous one. The only reason I could see using this card is to burn down tanks or anyone with crazy defense. You get one (or two) turns to target that hero and hopefully destroy him/her in those few attacks. This is my perspective on the card and maybe not such a terrible card when you think about the proper way to play it.

The "proper" way to play it… It relies on two things: who searches and do you have anything to damage that hero when they are the monkey? My group NEVER searches until all monsters are dead (or if it's the end of an encounter to round up treasure they keep minimal monsters alive without ending the encounter) so properly playing this card boils down to careless heroes or greedy heroes. I have yet to use the card to cause any damage to an affected hero.



#5 Terah

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 01:02 AM

The Curse of the Monkey God does exactly what it says on the card. There doesn't seem to be any debate to have.

This doesn't seem to be one of those cases where FFG's wording leaves us wondering. For example is a space "adjacent" to itself because it "shares edges" with itself?



#6 any2cards

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:18 AM

Terah said:

The Curse of the Monkey God does exactly what it says on the card. There doesn't seem to be any debate to have.

This doesn't seem to be one of those cases where FFG's wording leaves us wondering. For example is a space "adjacent" to itself because it "shares edges" with itself?

You are either incredibly naive, or very new to FFG games.  FFG is KNOWN for a complete lack of consistency when it comes to being explicit in their rules, examples, card descriptions, etc. as to what something does or does not do.

All you need to do is review all of their FAQ releases for D1e.  Often times they change their minds as to their intent, what a card was meant to do, etc.  To state that the card only does exactly what it says is … well … silly.

Just look at how they changed Elemental's Air Ability in the FAQ ruling for D2e.

In either case, I was just looking for feedback as to how most people were playing the card.



#7 Terah

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:10 PM

Well you know how I play it. To be honest I was just amazed that Rico called your player's "Rules Lawyers" for wanting to stick with a simple rule.



#8 Butaman551

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:32 AM

 Maybe its because I never played first edition, but this card seemed fairly straightforward to me as well.

I checked the first edition rules to see where the confusion was coming from and found:

When a hero is transformed into a monkey, the player must immediately replace his hero figure with the mon- key marker. The hero’s turn immediately ends.
Monkeys cannot attack and cannot use any items, including potions. A monkey can move up to 5 spaces on the hero’s turn, but cannot take any movement actions. A monkey has the hero’s wounds and fatigue, but has a total armor value of 0.

Compared to the text from the card - Monkeys cannot roll defense dice (except to test an attribute), have a Speed of 5, and cannot attack for any reason - it seems to me that this new monkey is not meant to be the same as the old monkey. The new card seems very explicit.

That's not to say that they won't change their minds later, but I don't see how this is open to interpretation as it stands now.



#9 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:38 AM

Probably nobody is following this anymore, but I have an official answer for Curse of the Monkey God.

Here it goes:

 

Q: I have some questions regarding Curse of the Monkey God. The card says that the player becomes a monkey until the end of his next turn and that monkeys can't roll defense dice (except to test an attribute), have a Speed of 5 and can't attack for any reason. I'm assuming monkeys keep the wounds and fatigue that the hero had (and vice versa when they transform back), but what else do they keep and what else can they do? Do they keep Conditions, do they keep the same attribute values? Do they have the same Stamina and Health values that the hero had? Can they open doors, search, revive heroes, perform special actions? Can they use class skills that don't perform attacks? (healing, adding armor or valor tokens, etc.) Can they use Heroic Feats that don't perform attacks? Can they use Search Items such as Potions? Also I'm assuming too that if the monkey is knocked out and revived/stands up/healed before the duration of the card's effect has ended (next turn after it's cast) it's still a monkey, am I right?

 

A: I believe you had everything correct. They can still perform any actions that don't involve attacks, they have all of their same statistic values and any damage/fatigue/conditions suffered, they can search and use search items, and if they're defeated and revived prior to the end of the card's duration, they're still a monkey.


Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

Edited by Aidyzappiar, 01 August 2013 - 11:39 AM.

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#10 Steve-O

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:02 PM

 Maybe its because I never played first edition, but this card seemed fairly straightforward to me as well.

 

The 2E version of the card IS very straightforward.  The OP got himself confused because he was getting 1E and 2E mixed up, but his players set him straight.  They may very well be rules lawyers in general, but in this case it sounds like they were simply reading the card.

 

Second edition monkeys are not under any obligation to cripple the heroes the way first edition monkeys did.  The rules are different, and much easier to interpret.  Just read the card and play through.



#11 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:22 PM

Well... To be fair I didn't play 1E and yet I harboured some doubts as well. In my case the reason for doubts was twofold:

 

1)The card says "...the hero becomes a monkey" and then goes on to define a monkey, but it actually only gets halfway (or less) there. It tells you two things that monkeys can do and one of their attributes (I mean Speed; not sure if I should call it an attribute) and then it stops. Most people assume the rest is the same as for the original hero, but it's not so obvious to me, in part because of reason number 2.

 

2)Theme. Monkeys reviving heroes? Monkeys giving valor to heroes? Using Potions? Testing Knowledge? Searching? Healing? Monkeys raising the dead or summoning stones? Those are some serious monkeys. Why would a monkey be able to do all those things and not be able to dodge an attack or block? Monkeys are generally regarded as agile. Not so sure you would presume them capable of magic.

 

Also, this might seem way too subtle but for me if it said "...the hero becomes a monkey" and then "While he/she is transformed into a monkey his/her Speed changes to 5, he/she cannot roll defense dice  (except for attribute tests) 

and cannot attack for any reason." it would have made me doubt less. But if you tell me he/she becomes a monkey and then start defining what a monkey is you have to go all the way through, just like when you define Sir Palamon or goblins.

 

Ok, we already have an official answer so this post is nonsense; just getting my thoughts out there.

 

(Monkeys performing Heroic Freakin' Feats?!?!?!?! Seriously...  :P )


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#12 rugal

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:51 AM

Imagine the monkey as a small and fragile thing that can't attack and defend because he's too small to handle theses but he can continue to do magic since the monkey is a shape form not a real one.

 

and why a monkey shouldn't do search actions ? or opening doors ? Imagine the monkey of Aladdin of walt disney



#13 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:14 AM

Imagine the monkey as a small and fragile thing that can't attack and defend because he's too small to handle theses but he can continue to do magic since the monkey is a shape form not a real one.

 

Call it Wither then, or Curse of the Old Lady Goddess  :P

 

 

and why a monkey shouldn't do search actions ? or opening doors ? Imagine the monkey of Aladdin of walt disney

 

Yeah, that's why I left Opening Doors out of my previous post. Searching was probably the weakest one on the list, I'll grant you (maybe using Potions too). Was about to leave it out of it and then my mind got caught up in rl monkeys and forgot cute little Abu.

 

Ok, jokes aside, I think I more or less get the thematic part now. Thank you, rugal.


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#14 Kunzite

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:29 AM

At least they are a squishy little beast for the remander of the encounter that can't hurt our monsters? >.< maybe? I think the card is still good. I would play it on Nanok in a heart beat.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#15 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:02 AM

WizardMonkey.jpg


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#16 Robin

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 08:37 AM

Anyway, being a Monkey in Descent is less anoying than being a toad in Talisman.
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#17 Silverhelm

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:01 PM

Anyway, being a Monkey in Descent is less anoying than being a toad in Talisman.


I hear that! I hate turning into toad.

#18 Titeman

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:10 PM

My son always wants to be turned into a Toad in Talisman. Of course, he IS only 6...
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