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#61 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:19 PM

BrashFink said:

After my first playtest last weekend (FINALLY!) we ran into confusion over a set of Bounty Hunter Minions.

First we ran into confusion over the Soak value listed. The Wounds are multiplied by the total number, but the Soak couldn't be (it would be impossibly high if it was), but this is not clearly listed as such. We determined that you had to overcome Soak for each individual with remaining damage continuing on to the next Minion. So 14 damage would pass 3 Soak, kill 1 minion (6), Soak 3 on the next, and do 2 more damage. It appears everyone else just determined that the Soak is just applied once. This is fine, we just made a quick decision since we could not find a answer. More clarification in the final book would have prevented this.

Second of all, we determined that the skill rating would go down for the group as their number is thinned. I don't believe we read this actual rule either, just made the determination on how the rule for the Group Skills worked. Anyone else doing this?

The way that I've been running it, and I believe Cyril has as well, is that the Soak Value is only applied once.  So for for your example, the 14 damage would pass their Soak 3, leaving 11 damage, which would be enough to take out two minions (assuming 5 Wound Threshold each) and a point left over to be applied to a third minion.  If nothing else, it does help keep combat flowing in that it doesn't take as much time to take down a group of minions.  I guess the source for my interpretation of that is that minions are considered a "single entity" for most purposes, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to keep re-applying Soak Value for every single minion in the group.

As for skill ratings, I'd say that less minions in the group due to attrition means less skill ranks for that minion group.  So if dealing with a minion group consisting of 4 bounty hunter minions, taking out two of them would drop their Ranged (Light) skill ranking from 3 down to 1, making them less dangerous as more damage is dealt.


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#62 LethalDose

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

BrashFink said:

After my first playtest last weekend (FINALLY!) we ran into confusion over a set of Bounty Hunter Minions.

First we ran into confusion over the Soak value listed. The Wounds are multiplied by the total number, but the Soak couldn't be (it would be impossibly high if it was), but this is not clearly listed as such. We determined that you had to overcome Soak for each individual with remaining damage continuing on to the next Minion. So 14 damage would pass 3 Soak, kill 1 minion (6), Soak 3 on the next, and do 2 more damage. It appears everyone else just determined that the Soak is just applied once. This is fine, we just made a quick decision since we could not find a answer. More clarification in the final book would have prevented this.

The book isn't clear on this.  The way our group plays is to deduct soak once.  The applicable passage reads as follows (page 196, under Minions fight as a group):

"Damage inflicted to any member of the unit is deducted from the total, with individual members being elimanated as their share of theat wound total is exhausted."  

I don't think the example in the book provided isn't particularly illustrative on this point.  When I read "Damage inflicted to any [member] is deducted from the total" I read that to mean the damage that remains after accounting for soak once.  If a group has 5 members, 25 wound, and soak 3, your damage roll of 14 above, would inflict 11 damage (14-3), therfore deduct 11 wound from their total.  Two minions are incapacitated, 1 more takes one damage.

This interpretation is consistent with the interpretation I provided re: minions & grenades in a different thread.  It seemed to meet forum consensus.

I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong, however.  The rules simply aren't clear. 

BrashFink said:

Second of all, we determined that the skill rating would go down for the group as their number is thinned. I don't believe we read this actual rule either, just made the determination on how the rule for the Group Skills worked. Anyone else doing this?

I think you're spot on here.  As the groups numbers are thinned, their skill ranks are essentially reduced.

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#63 BrashFink

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

Yeah we mulled over the soak thing for probably 15 mins wondering if it should be applied once, but were baffled why it did not state once, where it was pretty clear on how to handle the Wounds. Something as simple as "Wounds: 6 (each)" on the Minions and we would not even had had the discussion. It would have be obvious the wounds were multiplied, the Soak was just as listed. Really, doing the Multi-Soak method was kind of hideously cumbersome. I am pretty glad that is not how it is.

As for the skill level, it is good thing we had fairy experienced players and thought this out. I could see a lot of people not catching that with how it is currently written. We had a small confusion over how the Minion skills worked, and went over the section real quick, we were like… "Wow, you know what that means? They get worse the less there is. That is BRILLIANT!" At the same time however, we wondered if that is what they intended. Again, one sentence would clarify that for anyone reading.

My players all loved it. We are converting from a WEG D6 campaign we started at the beginning of this year. As most people, the loved the dice and how they worked, even though I have a set of slightly modified dice I made to be able to use a ton of them: which can be seen HERE. We all had a blast.



#64 Cyril

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:08 PM

LethalDose said:

 

 

 

The book isn't clear on this.  The way our group plays is to deduct soak once.  The applicable passage reads as follows (page 196, under Minions fight as a group):

"Damage inflicted to any member of the unit is deducted from the total, with individual members being elimanated as their share of theat wound total is exhausted."  

I don't think the example in the book provided isn't particularly illustrative on this point.  When I read "Damage inflicted to any [member] is deducted from the total" I read that to mean the damage that remains after accounting for soak once.  If a group has 5 members, 25 wound, and soak 3, your damage roll of 14 above, would inflict 11 damage (14-3), therfore deduct 11 wound from their total.  Two minions are incapacitated, 1 more takes one damage.

This interpretation is consistent with the interpretation I provided re: minions & grenades in a different thread.  It seemed to meet forum consensus.

I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong, however.  The rules simply aren't clear. 

This is exactly how we've been playing it as well. If you're a minion group, you're a single entity for the purposes of the rules. You get one attack per round and are targeted as an individual. To me that means you get to apply your Soak once to an incoming attack. Sure there may be five of you, but it's the price you pay for acting together to increase your effectiveness. 



#65 Venthrac

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:26 PM

Donovan Morningfire said:

BrashFink said:

 

After my first playtest last weekend (FINALLY!) we ran into confusion over a set of Bounty Hunter Minions.

First we ran into confusion over the Soak value listed. The Wounds are multiplied by the total number, but the Soak couldn't be (it would be impossibly high if it was), but this is not clearly listed as such. We determined that you had to overcome Soak for each individual with remaining damage continuing on to the next Minion. So 14 damage would pass 3 Soak, kill 1 minion (6), Soak 3 on the next, and do 2 more damage. It appears everyone else just determined that the Soak is just applied once. This is fine, we just made a quick decision since we could not find a answer. More clarification in the final book would have prevented this.

Second of all, we determined that the skill rating would go down for the group as their number is thinned. I don't believe we read this actual rule either, just made the determination on how the rule for the Group Skills worked. Anyone else doing this?

 

 

The way that I've been running it, and I believe Cyril has as well, is that the Soak Value is only applied once.  So for for your example, the 14 damage would pass their Soak 3, leaving 11 damage, which would be enough to take out two minions (assuming 5 Wound Threshold each) and a point left over to be applied to a third minion.  If nothing else, it does help keep combat flowing in that it doesn't take as much time to take down a group of minions.  I guess the source for my interpretation of that is that minions are considered a "single entity" for most purposes, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to keep re-applying Soak Value for every single minion in the group.

As for skill ratings, I'd say that less minions in the group due to attrition means less skill ranks for that minion group.  So if dealing with a minion group consisting of 4 bounty hunter minions, taking out two of them would drop their Ranged (Light) skill ranking from 3 down to 1, making them less dangerous as more damage is dealt.

Yep, I've been running it that way as well. I started a thread about some of the gray areas with minions and I hope we get more clarity on how they work in the final book. How soak works with minion groups is one of the areas that could use more specific rules.






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