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Lair of the Wyrm


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#21 Himmelweiss

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 06:15 PM

 

Oh and hopefully, after 4 - 6 expansions they still think about us, the hardcore gamers who just need a big campaign only expansion like road to the legend.

This would be possible with the 2nd edition as well.

 

Until then i will play alot more 1st edition than the 2nd :/



#22 LiouKen

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 06:36 PM

I hope FFG can publish more campaigns.

But, no doubt, I will buy this expansion too.



#23 The_Warlock

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 08:13 PM

KingLz said:

I don't think FFG rushes thing too much.

Look at the date Descent 2.0 was announced, that was nearly one year ago.

If production takes 6-12 month you can suppose this expansion is already done and they already started working on the next one.

I know it might not be that great to skip community feedback at all, but it's just the way business works.

If they would start development of the new expansion now, we would have to wait way longer until we get new stuff.

This expansion must have been developed and playtested with the base game. Besides some new mechanics that we cannot grasp yet (perhaps there's something more than Rumors), the content looks like extra stuff to expand the base game (new quests, new heroes/monsters, new Hero classes, new Overlord Class, new encounter cards, a new Condition, etc…). I don't see how this could not merge seamlessly with the base game and make the Descent 2nd Edition base set a little more like 1st edition base set.

The only thing I do not understand is why there are only 2 Heroes and new classes for only 2 Archetypes. This is going to upset balance between Archetypes, leaving Healers and Scouts a step behind the others. I do not understand how FFG could think this is just fine, unless they have another expansion with 2 more Heroes/classes on the way. I think expanding selective portions of the game is not a good idea.



#24 MeisterH

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:23 PM

The_Warlock said:

KingLz said:

 

I don't think FFG rushes thing too much.

Look at the date Descent 2.0 was announced, that was nearly one year ago.

If production takes 6-12 month you can suppose this expansion is already done and they already started working on the next one.

I know it might not be that great to skip community feedback at all, but it's just the way business works.

If they would start development of the new expansion now, we would have to wait way longer until we get new stuff.

 

 

This expansion must have been developed and playtested with the base game. Besides some new mechanics that we cannot grasp yet (perhaps there's something more than Rumors), the content looks like extra stuff to expand the base game (new quests, new heroes/monsters, new Hero classes, new Overlord Class, new encounter cards, a new Condition, etc…). I don't see how this could not merge seamlessly with the base game and make the Descent 2nd Edition base set a little more like 1st edition base set.

The only thing I do not understand is why there are only 2 Heroes and new classes for only 2 Archetypes. This is going to upset balance between Archetypes, leaving Healers and Scouts a step behind the others. I do not understand how FFG could think this is just fine, unless they have another expansion with 2 more Heroes/classes on the way. I think expanding selective portions of the game is not a good idea.

It is probably a sale thing, so that we want to buy this and the upcoming expansion, which should includ a Scout and Healer class. It could also be that they planned to make a bigger expansion first, but felt that some parts were incomplete or didn't function as they wanted so instead of makeing an expansion with some stuff that is broken or feels out of place, they releas it later so they get more time to fix it. Also I like that they make smaller expansions, so the fans can get new material more often and with smaller expansions it doesn't change how the game play, as radicaly as a big box might.



#25 kingbobb

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:48 AM

Having had more time to read the blurbs…I like this direction.  I can see 2-3 of these smaller sized expansions a year, adding a few new heroes and monsters, and adding an optional quest line that can be added into any other major quest.  And once a year, release a quest expansion, containing a whole new epic quest.  It's probably more than I can budget in, but I think it expands the 2.0 system at a reasonable rate. 



#26 Columbob

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:58 AM

Steve-O said:

 My biggest hope now is that D2e was actually finished a long time ago (and just held back by production issues) and that this expansion was actually developed in the year or so it took them to put the base box on shelves.

 

That's what I believe. After all, a year ago they were telling us the game was coming out last winter. So roughly a year before the first expansion if it comes out right before Christmas.

 

It is a rather smallish expansion though, so easier to produce, playtest, proofread, etc.



#27 yohko

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:04 AM

I bet it was already decided before the core set was released.

Here is my 50 bucks. So now, where is my Lair of the Wyrm expansion pack box?



#28 Columbob

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:58 AM

yohko said:

I bet it was already decided before the core set was released.

Here is my 50 bucks. So now, where is my Lair of the Wyrm expansion pack box?

 

Why would you pay more than the $35 price tag?



#29 Triu

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 07:51 AM

Columbob said:

Why would you pay more than the $35 price tag?

Taxes and/or S&H?  Maybe he expects change back, or personal favors from the game store clerk.



#30 Columbob

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 02:18 AM

You can probably find it for $20-25 online.



#31 Steve-O

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:48 AM

KingLz said:

I don't think FFG rushes thing too much.

Look at the date Descent 2.0 was announced, that was nearly one year ago.

1e expansions were put out at a rate of roughly one per year (more for the ACs), and they still managed to make a mess.

KingLz said:

If production takes 6-12 month you can suppose this expansion is already done and they already started working on the next one.

I know it might not be that great to skip community feedback at all, but it's just the way business works.

I don't really care if FFG considers community feedback, as long as the product they put out is decent quality.

For the record, when I say "decent quality" I don't mean it needs to be perfect in every respect.  But I would appreciate if new rules were written with regard for past content, so they can be integrated seamlessly.  I would appreciate if double-sided tiles did NOT print two different things that are required in the same quest on OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE SAME TILE.  And I would appreciate if new heroes and monsters were roughly level in terms of overall power, so that the choice of which hero to play isn't reduced to a small set of "obvious" choices.

All of these things were problems in Descent 1e, by the end.  All of them, IMHO, a result of cranking out expansions too quickly and without taking the time to think things through.

KingLz said:

If they would start development of the new expansion now, we would have to wait way longer until we get new stuff.

I've said this before and I'll say it again:  I'm cool with waiting longer for a product that is well thought out and well balanced, through and through.

Seeing a new expansion within a year of the base game's release worries me.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to be crap (I continue to hold out hope for the exact opposite.)  However, it is an unfortunate fact that FFG has a reputation for lots of rules gaps that need to be addressed in FAQs.  In the last couple years they've had two or three releases that were actually unplayable because components were printed incorrectly.  So, the fact that they appear to be increasing the speed of their releases (at least superficially) is worrying to me.

It has already been suggested (by myself and others) that the base game may have been finished development a long time ago and held back by production/delivery issues.  It was certainly announced far in advance of its eventual deployment.  Hopefully this expansion has been in development for a while behind the scenes.  If FFG has any sort of official comment on that suggestion, I would be very interested to see it (however, I'm not going to hold my breath.)

I'm as excited as the next guy for more Terrinoth content.  I love Descent (1e, and 2e from what I've read of it.)  I think FFG makes great games in general, but if that excitement ends up crumbling to ashes when I see a laundry list of errors in the product I just paid good money for, that's discouraging, to say the least.



#32 Timerron

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:27 AM

 This expansion was announced earlier than expected for me, but is smaller than I hoped for. A fair trade off. Maybe others are right about another 'sister' expansion filling in with heroes for the other archetypes.



#33 Ringskipper

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 12:19 PM

I'm super-excited for this expansion! I wasn't very excited with the class system and the fact that there were only two each, so as far as I'm concerned, FFG can just take my money! More classes, more heroes, more monsters, and more tiles = sold.

I just wish it came with a miniature for the Wyrm Queen instead of the token… I'm not a big fan of the metal figurines, and the fact that she's so big makes me think it'll be hard to find a proxy.



#34 Beren Eoath

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 07:21 AM

This expansion looks cool but where are the 2 missing archetypes? Does this mean we will be getting a twin expansion later that will give us those?



#35 Triu

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:40 AM

Ringskipper said:

I just wish it came with a miniature for the Wyrm Queen instead of the token… I'm not a big fan of the metal figurines, and the fact that she's so big makes me think it'll be hard to find a proxy.
If money is no object, just sign up for the Reaper Kickstarter and pick up the optional dragon of your choice.



#36 Kalidor

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:07 AM

I, for one, am super-thrilled with this announcement.  It came much earlier than expected, and that's a good thing.

 

Kinks can and will be worked out; my family and I are having a BLAST with the Core set over the last couple of weeks!



#37 z22

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:22 AM

The expansion looks great with one major exception, no new campaign.  This isn't acceptable. Every expansion should have at least one new, complete, campaign, and mini expansions could only be new campaigns.  I'm shocked FFG can't come up with a new campaign for this expansion. Why go 1/2 way in creating 5 new quests when you could create a handful more and have a full campaign?



#38 radiskull

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:08 PM

z22 said:

I'm shocked FFG can't come up with a new campaign for this expansion. Why go 1/2 way in creating 5 new quests when you could create a handful more and have a full campaign?

1/2 is not the same thing as 1/4.  A campaign has WAY more than 5 quests - it has 20 quests, and probably new lieutenants and relics.



#39 Rico

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:25 PM

z22 said:

The expansion looks great with one major exception, no new campaign.  This isn't acceptable. Every expansion should have at least one new, complete, campaign, and mini expansions could only be new campaigns.  I'm shocked FFG can't come up with a new campaign for this expansion. Why go 1/2 way in creating 5 new quests when you could create a handful more and have a full campaign?

Dude, you don't have to buy it. If its complete and utter insanity to even consider what FFG has done as "cool", then keep your hard-earned greenbacks and enjoy your life. I'm sure nobody is going lose any sleep over your decision.



#40 kingbobb

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:48 AM

z22 said:

The expansion looks great with one major exception, no new campaign.  This isn't acceptable. Every expansion should have at least one new, complete, campaign, and mini expansions could only be new campaigns.  I'm shocked FFG can't come up with a new campaign for this expansion. Why go 1/2 way in creating 5 new quests when you could create a handful more and have a full campaign?

I'm sure they could have easily created a new campaign.  At the same time, for me, new campaigns should also come with several kinds of new monsters, several new heroes, maybe a new class for each archetype, new lieutenants.  And with JitD 2.0 coming out just months ago, that's throwing a lot of new content at a player base that's still working it's way through the 2.0 contents and the Conversion Kit.

And I'd rather see one new big campaign a year, with a couple of these smaller expansions along the way.  Plus, I really like how Lair of the Wyrm is a set of quests that can be dropped into any campaign.  It sets up a very nice, expandable system that's going to have a lot of replayability built in. 






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