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Immune to Player Card Effects


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#41 Kiwina

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:57 AM

You don't actually target a hero when you use their resources, otherwise Beorn would be incapable of using his resources at all.

The difference in who can/can't affected by each of those cards is in the nuance of who they target an who their action effects affect.  

Quick Strike targets a character, and allows that character to make an attack outside of the normal combat phase.  It targets a character, so Beorn can't be affected by it.  The card effects of Quick never actually targets the enemy, just the character who is declaring a attack.  Since the Smaug can be hurt by attack made by characters, he will take damage if your character is strong enough to break though his defense.

Like Angus said, Stand together is basically the same.  The card effect only affect characters, not the enemy.

Thicket of Spears is the only card of the three who's written effects affect enemy cards, so Smaug would be immune to it.

 

This next comment is going back to some earlier posts about Beorn's immunity to attachments.  There is one benefit to it.  He is also immune to encounter attachments.  Sack cards (Carrock and We Must Away) and Tentacle attachments (Watcher) don't affect him either.



#42 imoly22

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

Thanks Kiwina!,

Now I've a clear idea of what can and can't play against Smaug. Sad that the best card to go against Smaug (Thicket of Spears) is useless. 



#43 GrandSpleen

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:10 AM

 Hm, I'm reading these a little differently.

Quick strike targets a character.  Beorn can't be targeted.  Smaug can be attacked. (sounds like we all agree here)

Stand together targets a player.  You should be able to use this with Beorn, and you should be able to defend attacks from Smaug with multiple characters when using this card.

Thicket of Spears also targets a player.  The card text doesn't target Smaug at all.  It's more like an immunity granted to the player (like Burning Brand).  Smaug wouldn't attack the player.

We know that Dori can help Beorn: Dori has a very clear and direct benefit for Beorn, but because the damage is intercepted and Beorn is only indirectly involved, this is legal.  It seems to be the same case for Stand Together and for Thicket of Spears.  Neither of the immune cards are targeted by the Stand Together or Thicket of Spears.  Sure the result changes the environment for the immune cards, but because the cards do not act directly on them, there is nothing for the immunity to prevent.

That is my interpretation, and it might be a minority interpretation.  I do think we need official elaboration on immunities in general.

 



#44 mr_pelle

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:10 PM

Dain Ironfoot said:

This is probably a ridiculous question but what exactly does "immune to player card effects" mean?

this is close:

"Immune to Card Effects
The location East-gate has the text, “Immune to card
effects.” This means that East-gate cannot be selected as
the target of any card effect, and it ignores the effect of any
card that would directly interact with it. The only way to
place progress tokens on it is by questing, and once Eastgate
is the active location it remains the active location
until it is fully explored (even cards like Dreadful Gap or
Strider’s Path would not be able to move it to the staging
area)."

What can you tell me about the interaction between Esgaroth Wharf (TBoLT) and Northern Tracker (Core)? Does the ability on the former block the Response effect of the latter?

And, more generically speaking, does "card" in LotR LCG refer only to cards in players hand or even to characters, attachments, etc in play? Sorry for the silly question, but I'm coming from a MtG background where "permanent" refers to cards in play.. =P

Thank you in advance!



#45 Brownmantle

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:31 AM

benhanses said:

Memetix said:

 

benhanses said:

 

So, by combining those rules/guidleines, Beorn's text is not ACTIVE while in the draw deck or discard pile.  Therefore, he should be eligible for player card effects that target those areas (search cards, Landroval, etc).

 

 

Well found, that would make sense and fits in with how I'd like the card to work.

 

 

I haven't ran a lot of Tactics yet, and wasn't too thrilled to see Beorn's text.  It seemed a bit…. ummmmm….   Dull.  Just to be honest.

Let me clarify:  This game is really designed around its heroes.  Specifically, being able to get maximum useage out of them.  Notice how many of the "power" cards in this game are centered around that concept (UC, all the Aragorn/Glor/Elrond/Dwarven/etc. attachments).  So getting a hero (even with big stats) that will just kind of sit there, like a glorified meat-shield and be completely unable to interact with the rest of your deck except to generate rewources OR get searched for (if you are unlucky enough for him to get killed/discarded/buried) seems VERY anticlimactic. 

Despite my lack of excitement about his deck capabilities, I could see him slipping nicely into an Eagle deck perhaps.  Paricularly since Landroval is one of the FEW cards that can have any affect on him.  He would definitely fit the defend/attack theme they fill….

 

I would have agreed up until the latest delux expansion. Beorn's stats and the fact that I can recycle him with Landroval (&did) made him on e of my strongest Hero's in the last two quests. That being said, I lost the last quest, though I was doing better than I expected thanks to Beorn.


But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
 

 


#46 muemakan

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

mr_pelle said:

 

Dain Ironfoot said:

 

This is probably a ridiculous question but what exactly does "immune to player card effects" mean?

What can you tell me about the interaction between Esgaroth Wharf (TBoLT) and Northern Tracker (Core)? Does the ability on the former block the Response effect of the latter?

And, more generically speaking, does "card" in LotR LCG refer only to cards in players hand or even to characters, attachments, etc in play? Sorry for the silly question, but I'm coming from a MtG background where "permanent" refers to cards in play.. =P

Thank you in advance!

 

 

"immune to player card effects" means any player card (event, attachment, ally or hero) cannot target that card.  Once a card is in the discard pile the text on the card is no longer active. So Beorn can be resurrected with "Fortune or Fate" or "Landroval".

Northern Tracker gets blocked because it's effect is a player card effect that would target the location. "Cards" are all cards on the table.

 



#47 mr_pelle

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:40 PM

muemakan said:

mr_pelle said:

 

Dain Ironfoot said:

 

This is probably a ridiculous question but what exactly does "immune to player card effects" mean?

What can you tell me about the interaction between Esgaroth Wharf (TBoLT) and Northern Tracker (Core)? Does the ability on the former block the Response effect of the latter?

And, more generically speaking, does "card" in LotR LCG refer only to cards in players hand or even to characters, attachments, etc in play? Sorry for the silly question, but I'm coming from a MtG background where "permanent" refers to cards in play.. =P

Thank you in advance!

 

 

"immune to player card effects" means any player card (event, attachment, ally or hero) cannot target that card.  Once a card is in the discard pile the text on the card is no longer active. So Beorn can be resurrected with "Fortune or Fate" or "Landroval".

Northern Tracker gets blocked because it's effect is a player card effect that would target the location. "Cards" are all cards on the table.

 

*sigh* Thank you for the explanation!

Now I'm even more sure Lake-Town is an ridicolously hard quest… =(






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