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Cheating in Deathwatch


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#1 Lokan

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:22 AM

 Now I know that Deathwatch is a game where it is meant to be enjoyed like all other tabletop games.  However, what do you do when players begin lying about their rolls in order to succeed certain tests?   I have caught some of my players trying to play off that they succeeded and I have to outline the rules numerous times.  Scenario example is one of my players using an Intimidate Test and realizes that he fails.  He justified that Unnatural Strength x2 gives him double strength characteristic when actually it only doubled his Strength Bonus.  He then assumes he gets certain modifiers when I already stated there are none in this given scenario.  I know I am a fairly balanced GM and I want my players to succeed, but I also want to ensure we play by the rules and not allow people to manipulate gameplay.  It has even gotten to the point where I don't let them roll unless I am around the gaming table (and not in the bathroom or kitchen).  They get pissed, but I still keep my foot down.  Should I penalize them for pulling stuff like this?  Is it unfair?



#2 Gaire

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:41 PM

 Cheating is cheating. If you're not going to obey the rules of the game, there's no sense in even playing it. If you've got players cheating, then they need to declare their base target followed by modifiers before rolling and roll out in the open. Personally, I don't find role playing to be as fun if there's not a chance of failure, and cheating at a cooperative game of structured make-believe is pretty low in my book.



#3 Kshatriya

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 04:01 PM

Make sure to differentiate not knowing the rules and cheating. The former is a good ground for education (and Unnatural traits do reduce penalties on a tst by 10% per Unnatural multiplier, so a -40 Test undertaken by someone with Unnatural Intelligence (x3) is actually at -20, before other multipliers).

The latter…meh. Depends how much you care. Really someone cheating at a make-believe game is pretty pathetic but it's up to you how to handle it. I don't know why someone would complain about having to roll in front of you, nor do I understand how one player obviously cheating doesn't draw the ire of the other players. If it's ruining everyone's enjoyment or causing tension, boot them.



#4 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 03:10 AM

My gaming group used to have this problem decades ago in another game system.  The GM started rolling behind a screen and rolled a crit every third roll.  We got the message really quick. 

PVP situations also put a clamp down quick as the player on the receiving end will start auditing real quick.



#5 HTMC

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:56 AM

Honestly, what I think is the best advice? Talk to your players. Assuming you're all mature adults, perhaps ask them why they feel the need to cheat. There may be some fundamental misunderstanding somewhere, and if you can figure out why they're cheating on something you're supposed to be doing for fun, it'll probably be the quickest result with the least drama.



#6 Polaria

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:41 PM

We've always had the culture where players roll the dice openly on the table where everyone sees them. So basically no-one even tries to cheat.

GM is allowed to roll behind the screen (and often does) in order to conceal enemy statistics from players. GM is also allowed to "fudge" die rolls for the purposes of better story, although many times as GM I roll on the open anyway.



#7 Thebigjul

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:50 PM

If your player cheat then as GM do what you need, cheat.

He has roll something but you forgot the -30% malus for any reason, ennemy will begin to never miss him, and be strangely effective with their guns, make him use fate then burn some. At a point in the game he will turn to you and ask why?

Then you could answer an eye for an eye a fair game for a fair player.

If nothing succed kill the character and hire a new player. RPG is a hobby, a pleasure to have with friend a good time. You have no obligation to keep a fun destroying player, never ever.


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#8 kjakan

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:22 AM

HTMC said:

Honestly, what I think is the best advice? Talk to your players. Assuming you're all mature adults, perhaps ask them why they feel the need to cheat. There may be some fundamental misunderstanding somewhere, and if you can figure out why they're cheating on something you're supposed to be doing for fun, it'll probably be the quickest result with the least drama.

It may also be a good idea to have this sort of discussion ouside the game: People tend to get very defensive if they feel they're being caught in the act. This applies to most problem issues that stem from GM/player behaviour.

-K



#9 Minnjitsu

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:37 AM

 A player cheats he fails the roll. Period.

You decide the bonuses and negatives and if they try to rules lawyer you all the time boot the grotz'!

The challenge is what makes a game fun.  If there isn't a chance at failure then this isn't a game it is just an excuse for them to roll dice.



#10 Minnjitsu

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:38 AM

kjakan said:

HTMC said:

 

Honestly, what I think is the best advice? Talk to your players. Assuming you're all mature adults, perhaps ask them why they feel the need to cheat. There may be some fundamental misunderstanding somewhere, and if you can figure out why they're cheating on something you're supposed to be doing for fun, it'll probably be the quickest result with the least drama.

 

 

It may also be a good idea to have this sort of discussion ouside the game: People tend to get very defensive if they feel they're being caught in the act. This applies to most problem issues that stem from GM/player behaviour.

-K

 

This is the best strategy.  If they can't get it then you have to move on.  GM'ing is supposed to be fun.



#11 blazingsquirrel

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:11 AM

I have a player in my OW game that is notorious for cheating in the games our group puts together no matter what system and who is GMing. He apparently has this superiority complex and feels that his character should constantly be the strongest and always look like he's successful so he always lies about his stat rolls (never rolls below 15 in his 2d10 stat rolls) or would roll truthfully in his attack rolls in DnD until he finds out the necessary roll to hit and never fails ever again.

 

So far the various GMs have found ways to deal with it. Most of the GMs (myself included) use a dice roller script, thus creating a record of the rolls as well as ensure that no one is using weighted dice or some black magic skills with rolling to cause the face they want to come up (I got paranoid after I found out a buddy of mine was cheating coin flips). Another one of my buddies is really good with probability and he would quickly tally up the last few rolls each player does and calculate the chances of them actually making those rolls. If the statistics points to it being a statistical improbability, he punishes the player.

 

Now moving on to punishing cheaters. Normally my group does something light-hearted with the punishment so the offender doesn't feel like he's being singled out but we make it harsh enough so you can feel it. For example, if the character is prideful, we make them humiliate themselves in public in game to cause them to lose face or something. There are some times where the player or players get so unruly that you got to bring an unprecedented amount of beat down on them to get them back into place. I've had players completely disregard orders, insult their superior officers to their face, break regulations, steal equipment, damage equipment purposefully, and endanger the mission in Only War and this was in ONE session. Needless to say I just executed every one of them at that point. GMs have the complete right to just say "No. This is what happens, I'm invoking almighty GM powers", just don't abuse that right.



#12 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:30 AM

I've had players completely disregard orders, insult their superior officers to their face, break regulations, steal equipment, damage equipment purposefully, and endanger the mission in Only War and this was in ONE session.

 

Sounds like a normal session to me.... :ph34r:

My fault for letting them play a Savlar Chem-Dogs regiment, I guess.



#13 Koma76

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:14 AM

 

I've had players completely disregard orders, insult their superior officers to their face, break regulations, steal equipment, damage equipment purposefully, and endanger the mission in Only War and this was in ONE session.

 

 

 

 

oh well, seems to me like an happy bunch of fellas then :)


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#14 Theofonias

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

I ask cheaters to leave.  I am a very "lenient" GM and as long as you're not jumping into a dragon's mouth to spear its brain at level 1 I tend to make my PCs (as I believe every GM should) very heroic characters.  Think back on some of your most favorite gaming experiences, most of them are probably the awesome stuff that players pull out of nowhere to wow the group.  Cheating cheapens the experience for the entire group especially if a player is known for it.  Better to have fewer better quality players than to worry if Jeff is shaving his dice again.



#15 CaptainStabby

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:46 PM

Don't game with people who cheat.

 

Or punch them.

 

Or both.


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#16 pearldrum1

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:33 AM

Don't game with people who cheat.

 

Or punch them.

 

Or both.

I would say that is pretty lenient coming from THE Captain Stabby.

 

 

My advice, drown them in a shallow pool one by one while the others watch. Leave one to tell the tale. The cheating will stop for generations.



#17 deaddmwalking

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:21 PM

If you want the problem to go away and you're willing to have fun, let the cheater know that he doesn't need to roll.

 

Every time they need to make a test, tell them it's okay, they don't need to roll.  They succeed with 3 degrees of success.  

 

In no time at all, he'll be begging to be allowed to roll.  


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