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Moritat and Ranged weapons


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#1 antijoke_13

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 09:22 AM

I'm playing a Moritat assassin, and i'm totally okay with the whole "no guns" mentality (if anything, it's interesting to play the only character in the cell who doesn't use a hand cannon or lascarbines). however, i'm looking to cash in that composite bow i've got for something with a little more stopping power. can Moritat effectively use weapons such as a sawblade launcher or a heavily modified nail gun? Does anybody have any other good ideas for a Moritat friendly "gun"? 



#2 jabberwoky

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:13 AM

antijoke_13 said:

I'm playing a Moritat assassin, and i'm totally okay with the whole "no guns" mentality (if anything, it's interesting to play the only character in the cell who doesn't use a hand cannon or lascarbines). however, i'm looking to cash in that composite bow i've got for something with a little more stopping power. can Moritat effectively use weapons such as a sawblade launcher or a heavily modified nail gun? Does anybody have any other good ideas for a Moritat friendly "gun"? 

Page 2 of the topic "Moritat using a power sword"

Going by the posts in that topic, yes, a Moritat could use a composite bow.  One poster suggested using adamantium-tipped arrows, which have a surprisingly high damage coupled with the merit Power Shot.



#3 Clutch_Halthos

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:47 AM

I have a player who is a Moritat assassin right now and this might become an issue. Luckily I have been doing my homework, and some extra credit, and have come up with a few solutions.

If you still want to use your Composite bow but want a little more "umph" see if your GM will allow it to be treated as a Melee weapon in terms of the best quality variant having +1 damage. It already gets a "to hit" bonus from accurate, so double dipping would not be advised. 
 

Perhaps another solution, and my personal pick of the two, is to ask your GM for a bow weapon upgrade. perhaps something like "enhanced bow frame" or whatever you want to call it. This would have the effect of adding either your strength bonus, or half your strength bonus (round down)whatever the GM determines is good, to the damage of the weapon. This represents an increased "Pull" on the bow/bowstring.

I'd say either of those two options combined with mono arrows with the already impressive accurate quality, would give this weapon profile some pretty awesome stats. And lets not forget about the tearing  .

Assuming the assassin in question has a SB of 3 it would look something like: 1d10+5 Pen 3 accurate, tearing, reliable. Just FYI those stats are comparable to the stock Nomad hunting rifle (but with tearing and less range). 

Also just because you are a Moritat, it doesn't mean that it excludes you from taking mighty shot at rank 4. a flat +2 damage is always a boon.

Hope that helps! 



#4 Cymbel

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

So far it boils down to:

Bows/Crossbows = All Okay IF with a traditional EDGED arrowhead

Stake Crossbows = NOPE

Needler = NOPE

Widower (IH Edged Darts) = Yes (barely)

Throwing Knives/Stars = Yes

Xenos/Archeotech = UP TO THE GM

Now for POWERFUL Ranged Weapons, well the Composite Bow fits that, it is silent, ammo is inexpensive AND customizable.

1. Mono Arrows, add +2 Pen (or treat it as giving the Manstopper effect of fixing Pen at 3) should run about 1 throne each

2. TOXIC, dip the arrowheads in that, can be combined with mono

There are more you can add, but combine these with mighty shot and you get a 1d10+3 Pen 3 Toxic, Tearing SILENT ranged weapon that has AFFORDABLE ammo and beats out a LOT of the other "sniping" weapons

On another Note, the Widower is a pistol OR a basic weapon with NASTY damage, can be EASILY poisoned, still SILENT, but single shot and fairly costly ammo (15 thrones each). Though seeing as how versataile it is, it probably is THE end game highpower Moritat ranged weapon

Special note on throwing weapons, they are bit too expensive for the start, but if you put a ranged focus on your moritat, they can be pretty neat.

EDIT: A friend of mine suggested dipping into WFRP for bow related talents to give them the OOMPH a moritat would bring to the table


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#5 antijoke_13

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:21 PM

 i guess a Dead Space- esque sawblade cannon is out of the question then. *sniffle*

but seriously, thanks guys.

on a side note, are there any good ways to maximize a Moritat's use outside of the realm of "sadomasochistic religious killer?" 



#6 Cymbel

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:59 PM

Using nonlethal/distraction weapons (such as smoke or photon flash nades), the garrote to bring in folks alive at times.

Also, on the sawblade weapon, describe it in DH terms and then let's see what we can do.



#7 antijoke_13

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:43 PM

 hm. so Moritat's have no non violence application (information gathering, pull with local assassins, etc)? 

on the sawblade, i'm thinking the Imperium's answer to a shuriken catapult (that is to say larger and nomially less effective). something the Assassin could wear on a rig and fire while it's still strapped to his body. over the shoulder cannon with MIU interface maybe?



#8 Cymbel

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:33 PM

They can be non-violent to an extent, but the killing/damaging method HAS to be a bloodletting edged weapon.



#9 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:21 PM

 I don't think a Moritat would have any issues with coshing someone or shooting them with a tranquilizer gun, if their goal is to knock someone out rather than kill them. If they've gotta die, though, then it has to be with a blade, unless there's no other way to harm them but to pick up a gun. For instance, I don't think a Moritat would be dumb enough to attack a man in full power armor with a knife; he'd show some pragmatism and go for the meltagun instead. Of course, he'd prefer to have a power sword or a power axe, but you can't always get what you want.

Photon flash/smoke grenades would be a great choice for them, because you use them to soften up or confuse a target before delivering the killing blow with a blade. A great way to make an entrance, too. Also good is to pack a gas mask and some hallucinogen grenades; while they're busy staring at their hands and screaming or attacking their friends, you can waltz up behind them and slit their throats.

Or, if all else fails, you can just raise your willpower and pack a gun. I call this the "low standards" approach. 


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."


#10 Nameless2all

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:52 PM

Wow….. so many subjects on Moritats.  I bet if I go into the search engine I will get atleast 10 pages worth of stuff  relating to Mortitats.  Actually give me a sec and I will check.

Ahh, I was wrong.  My apologies.  21 pages worth of information. 


For a collection of fan created material, please refer to the link below. Some of it was edited/created by myself and friends, while most is other fan material. Happy gaming people.https://drive.google.com<p>-"May your endeavors always be prosperous, though they may not always be profitable."


#11 Cymbel

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:16 AM

Well, in DH, they are the only real death cult looked into and people have enjoyed death cult assassins, they were a part of 40k TT lists. Plus they have a unique style. And they seriously need some buff or such for the later levels.



#12 FieserMoep

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:47 AM

Well, I played a Moritat and I dont think they realy need a Buff that much.

A Moritat equiped with several Mono, Lathe Blades (Bows, Throwing Knifes etc.) is a force of its own. But you are wrong to expect him on a Battlefield where he has to compare with a Guy shoting a Heavy Bolter.

Let him sneak, let him use concealment and some athletic moves where he can bring himself in a perfect position. He is not meant to follow up a heavy armed Secutor acompanied by two Melter Guardsmen. He can infiltrate and operate on his own as a scout to clear the path.

Imagine a best craftmanship Combat Knife with Mono-upgrade in addition with Crushing Blow, the Moritats Tearing and SB of 4. Then add Blademaster and Swift/Lightning attack. Then the normal WS of a decent Moritat around 50.

What we have here are 2 or 3 Attacks with 1d5+10 and Pen 2. The tearing will make hits with atleast 13 Damage and 2 Pen regularly. If the enemy is suprised we recieve +30, the Best Quality gives additional +10 on the WS and we have a Base of 40-50. Thats a80-90% Chance to hit with one free reroll. On Lightning attack this is enough to shred away any decent Guardian.


Lets take a Guard with Carapace (6 Armor) and a TB of 4 with 15 Wounds. The chances that we wont wiss on suprise are very high with Blademaster so lets take 3 Hits with average damage of 13 and Pen 2.

So D13P2*3=45(Effektive Damage including Pen agains Arm)

And A6TB4*3=30(Damage soaked)

So there are 15 over Damage that will kill the Guard, and I think you all know how likly Rightous Fury happens with tearing. (And this is just a BQ-Mono-Combat Kinfe, as Lathe it is even more deadly. And if you ask your GM you could ask for a Toxin Upgrade (Into the Storm/Rouge Trader) for your Knife which will be awsome. Also you can sanctify this weapon to be very effektive against demons.

And this is just a upgraded combat Knife you cant start with and keep it to the very end. And beside this Sneaking actions you are a Monster in close Combat and able to kill silently on range with a Composite Bow+Mono Arrows. I think if you look at the posibilitys that fit the role of a moritat you find many ways to make him a strong badass.


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#13 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:27 PM

Moritat are like Metallican Gunslingers -- a quick path to power that suffer a bit at the very high levels. I think that was done on purpose.

But unlike the poor Gunslinger, the Moritat have the Moritat Reaper advance, which I think is supposed to address this issue somewhat.



#14 FieserMoep

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

The Problem is not that the Moritat is weak, the Problem is that everyone expects the moritat to be effective in any kind of combat.

 

Many Groups stay togehter in Combat and therefore the most "straight" Classes can shine. Namely the Guardsman, the Tech Priest, the Psyker and any "ordinary" Assassin.

 

Well, the Moritat is special and that is how he must be played. Its not simple an Assassin with a quick path to power like bogi_khaosa said. Though the most players take it for that and forget that with each strengh they buy a weakness. And to cry out to "balance" this already balanced weaknes is some kind of hilarious.

 

If you play a Moritat you should do that because of the roleplay, not because Tearing and Reaper. And if you roleplay the Moritat then be sneaky, search for close combat and if you realise that your chances are bad, retreat as every Assassin would do it. An Assassin is mostly not a tool of brute furce, hes not the Hammer, he is the Scalpel. Leave this mindless combat without any sense of art to the brutes. The murder an Assassin practices is so much more - beauty of its own.

 

And the Moritat is a devotet follower of the Emperor, a Death Cultist that dances in the blood of its enemys. Not with a Power/Force Sword, but with his trusty blade as an exemplar of humanitys pure strenght, no witchcraft, no technology - just a man and  his sword, the ancient unity of war. Thoug he may sneak to his target, the last act, when he takes the lives of his victims, this moment is true. They follow their own interpretations of the imperial creed and to break them would mean to break with their own existence. They know of their strenghts and they worship them, and they know of their weaknesses and they accept them, for they are humans - pure as only the bringers of death in the service of the emperor can be.



#15 Boss Gitsmasha

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 05:39 PM

The problem with that is that parties (at least the parties I end up in) tend to resent the one guy who goes lone wolf and sneaks ahead away from the rest of the party, especially if the job goes bad and he ends up needing to be rescued. So either you have the party stick together, negating the Moritat's stealth skills or requiring everyone in the party to be stealthy, or you have the Moritat go ahead by himself and become either a glory-hog or a Leeroy Jenkins.

The last time I dealt with a Moritat who wasn't me, he definitely ended up being a Leeroy Jenkins. He did more damage to the party (and himself) than the enemies ever did.

As for me, I felt constantly chained to the party, especially the psyker, who the Arbitrator insisted could never be left alone. So while the Arbites was off investigating, I was stuck psyker-sitting.


"Oomans are pink an' soft, not tough an' green like da Boyz. Dey'z all da same size too, so dey'z always arguin' about who's in charge, 'cos dere's no way o' tellin' c'ept fer badges an' ooniforms an' fings. When one o' dem wants ta lord it over da uvvers, 'e says 'I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me', or 'I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good'. Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it an' da uvver 'arf don't, so 'e has ta hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot o' mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while dey'z all arguin' wiv each uvver over who's da boss, da Orks can clobber da lot."


#16 FieserMoep

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:44 PM

I totaly agrre with you and the problems that you have listed but in my opinion a character must and should be compatible to the group to some degree. Atleast any group that isnt that unexpierenced or new to the system should have a talk about what tendency their characters will go. I know that a lot of people want to play the uber-badass killing machine and others want to be the (sad)face of the group but if those characters dont fit together there will always be someone that isnt that enjoyed by the game.

 

In my group there are several rules (depending on the current characters) what roles/archetypes/background etc. can be taken. For example we have a psyker atm so any "blank" is forbiden. And atleast this makes perfect sense. No sane Inquisitor would put a blank and a psyker in the same party, those two pontentials are wasted.

 

If the group is completly the brute combat oriantated kill-team-stike-force-of-doom-+9 vs. Ogres then I cant force them to accept a lone wolf that suffers from to much self confidence. But if i choose to play such a role then I dont have to expect some fancy extra rules to be of any use.

 

When I played a Moritat I looked for the ways to shine but also had enough sanity to stay out of situations my Assassin could not handel if they go wrong. And atleast I think any Assassin should do the "safe" way. If there is danger to be detected, go. If there are to strong enemys, go. If the alarm turned on, run. An Assassin strikes from the Shadow, if you want to play a Grunt take a Guardsman.

 

And because of the damage to the group thing… just because there is a challenge your not expected to take it. Everyone would understand an Assassin that says "No" to a Mission that cant be acomplished at the time. May it be the lack if information, the lack of firepower or an unknown situation. If a professional Assassin says "No" everyone should understand that.



#17 Cymbel

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:47 PM

A friend of mine did suggest using stealth in combat. Dropping behind the party slightly (and our Moritat, Gittmasha's has the armoured bodyglove with the hood), then using a bow or sneaking into combat, gaining surprise, using a garrotte/some other weapon, dealing a powerful strike and then fading back into the shadows. And other topics.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

As for me, I felt constantly chained to the party, especially the psyker, who the Arbitrator insisted could never be left alone. So while the Arbites was off investigating, I was stuck psyker-sitting.

Sorry about that…but to be fair, she is an adorable psyker AND it was sign of GREAT TRUST from my Arbites, who treated the psyker like the little sister she never had. But I understand your point!



#18 HiveFleetStorm

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:12 PM

There's another way to add some power to to a Moritat Assassin.  

Sin Eater,  With all the cool ( and random) things that you may get from a Daemon Composite Bow.  

 

You'll need to up you Willpower but it makes the game more interesting. 



#19 Gregorius21778

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:06 PM

 hm. so Moritat's have no non violence application (information gathering, pull with local assassins, etc)? 

on the sawblade, i'm thinking the Imperium's answer to a shuriken catapult (that is to say larger and nomially less effective). something the Assassin could wear on a rig and fire while it's still strapped to his body. over the shoulder cannon with MIU interface maybe?

 

My advise: leave the HEAVY ranged combat to your cell mates. If being "impared" in range combat bothers you, take a -regular- assassine instead.


@Non-Violence-Application
You can try a "spy from the shadows" approach, puttting "Silent Move", "Security", "Shadowing" to use. Everything social is ruleswise a tat problematic since your Fellowship is really hard to raise.


 


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