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Overlord Winning Before Heroes Can React?


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#101 Kunzite

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:29 AM

Reading this, and having to finish our first campaign, Shadow Ruin, I am kind of surprised at what's being said. Am I a horrible OL that I did about half and half wins with my heroes? Yes, there are three run-and-win games that we played. I decided to lose one of them (the one where the heroes can steel the staff of shadows from me) to "even" out the field. It was good because we where all new, but I don't think I will be doing it again. It cost me the game.

 

Aside from those 3 games, the movement of my monsters being so limited would be a HUGE disadvantage, particularly with reinforcements having to get all the way across the map to get somewhere. Personally, I think that makes the game very unfair for the OL when heroes can take out whole groups in one shot.

 

And the thing with blocking doorways. Look, you are playing someone that is acting out the jerkiest-jerk of all time. Blocking hallways is a jerk ass thing to do. They are doing their job. You would not feel motivated to want to kick his ass the following game if he didn't fluster you so readily. At least, my group is that way.

 

I really don't think those are miss rules, just an advantage that is exploited. The win for the fat goblin should be easy for the heroes, and the act two quest corresponding to Fat Goblin should be really easy for the heroes to take as well. I sat there utterly helpless as they mowed me down and I could do nothing but watch Yes... Watch... sometimes with a turn that does nothing.

 

BTW, Labyrinth of Ruin is out. I have read *some* of the quests, haven't played them yet. They took allot of the grievances into mind and tweaked them. Many maps are larger with more open space. Objectives make it harder to exploit monster movement. There are more complex obstetrical that are easy to get around, give heroes and monsters advantages and disadvantages as well as strategy that Shadow Ruin did not have.

 

I am going to give you heroes the same advice I gave some new OL.

One: Pick a few quests you like/haven't played and do some Epic Plays. These don't matter on a larger outcome. People are more relaxed and have more fun. Our last Epic Play was beyond funny. I, the OL, lost because I chose a stupid monster group (Kobolds) as my last ambush group for Frozen Spire. We all came out having a great time though because it was FUNNY! Having that many of the same beast on the field at once that made more, ignoring group limits was side splitting!

You need games like that so when those games come that are really frustrating, you can think of those stupid Kobolds and the funny voice one of your heroes gave them.

Two: Simple. If you don't like how things are run by your current OL, then YOU be the OL. Or at least mix it up. Your new hero member will be able to give you some great insight on the going ons of how the OL has to work things. You, or the new OL, will then see the advantages or disadvantages they get being limited. There is allot that goes on with the OL and you can't talk it over with anyone. You will find it is a fun, but challenging role to play on your own.

 

I hope this helps. The number one thing with this is you, as heroes, need to plan ahead and realize this isn't D&D where the OL wants you to win, so he will help you along. Great if you have that and that is what you guys need to have fun, but that isn't fair for the OL. Kind of feels like cheating if one player has to handicap themselves to let the other guy catch up. At least I would feel that way as the hero. I want to win in all fairness. So, at the end of the day we need to be good kids, OL and heroes, and take our lose gracefully and let the other guy rub it in our face. Next week will be different because you will be doing the face rubbing!


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#102 Big Cigar

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:57 AM

When an OL plays ruthlessly you just gotta pick up your game! 

 

First blood is pretty damn easy for hero's, but most hero's blow their load to early and focus on winning and killing Ettins when they should be focusing on the OL not winning and killing the goblins.Kill goblins, get knocked down a couple times by the Ettins, drag the game out till you actually have the actions to kill the Ettins, and win 90% of the time. Hero's are always worried about getting wiped out but until act II monsters can't knock down enough hero's a turn to slow them down significantly...

 

Masquerade ball is very hard for the hero's to win if they roll poorly on the first encounter. You just got bad luck. That being said, grabbing the crossbow that moves units, or if you are playing with the conversion kit, putting steel horns in your party to move units is invaluable.

 

For Castle Daedron read the "FAQ and Errata" that particular encounter was ridiculously hard for the hero's until they changed it.

 

On a Fat goblin you did about average on the first encounter, the second one you need an immobilize on Splig. Every party should have a Berserker with "Cripple"(Immobilize) or a Geomancer to lock down runners.  This won't be the last time you need to immobilize running monsters! Pick a better party composition next time!

 

-M



#103 zangetsu666

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:04 PM

 there are some missions out there with a limited number of turns in labrynth of ruin and if the ol parks his monsters on the exit the heros cant win the game because you get six turns and have to find tokens to reveal the code chosen by the overlord and to be able to guess the code you need to be on the exit tile plus inbetween searchin for the codes you are turning over tokens that could be volcrix reavers so if you happen to be unlucky enough to find one of those you imediately get attacked and it brings the game to a halt with the heros not being bothered to play anymore because its no fun and there is no way off winning. 

 

for the race quests i dont think just simple going out and blocking off the heros is a good way to play it if you want any longevity out off the game. especially with all the e3xpansions descent puts out there should be some sort off rule pout in to fix that abuse off the game or only allow smaller monster groups to be played in the race quest just my opinion and i have played it as ol and hero playing it to just completely gank the heros is no fun to play.


Edited by zangetsu666, 11 November 2013 - 12:06 PM.


#104 rfisha

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:57 AM

My 8 year old daughter found out how to block with Barghasts on her second game.  We put a house rule that monsters cannot face a wall after movement.  It has played a lot better since then.  She can still block, but with larger monsters only.  It toned the abuse down without eliminating the mechanic.



#105 zangetsu666

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:22 AM

House ruling is always the possible way to go think that play testing would have found these problems out and had some sort of ruling on the problem of just slowing the game down to a pointless waste of playing becauseyou cant win. I dont mind the blocking as sometimes it cant be avoided my main gripe with our ol was him standing his monsters on the exit tile to prevent any heros standing on it in honor amonga thief's quest just standing on the exit from the start is a bit to cheap.

Edited by zangetsu666, 12 November 2013 - 06:44 AM.


#106 Robin

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:32 AM

I dream to see the OL players who complain that heroes always win and the hero players who lament about the OL always winning meet and switch sides.  :P

 

Whatever happens, one side will be forced to change his views. :lol:


Edited by Robin, 12 November 2013 - 10:32 AM.

An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#107 zangetsu666

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 12:19 PM

Yea played both sides and I still find that one game a cheap victory for the ol I agree there is places were the heros cake walk it but its still going to cause many arguments I would have had no complaints if it was block the exit not standing on it.

#108 MadBat

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:21 AM

I don't get it when people complain because the OL uses a blocking strategy.

The block will last one turn (max 2) and the OL will win a card out of it and maybe down a hero because they were forced to move in.

If heroes need to pass, they can still rush that monster, kill him easily as usual and spend fatigue to move in its place.

If you need to sacrifice a hero to get to it, then so be it, it's the end of the quest anyway.

 

Whining because the OL is cheap is ridiculous.

Blocking is a valid strategy part of the OL's arsenal of cheap tricks.

You can't deal with it, then play OL yourself or play another game.

Don't start nerfing and house ruling everything so you can play without losing ever nor even getting downed a single encounter!


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#109 rfisha

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:46 AM

I dream to see the OL players who complain that heroes always win and the hero players who lament about the OL always winning meet and switch sides.  :P

 

Whatever happens, one side will be forced to change his views. :lol:

 

Doesn't everyone do this? If you don't you should.  We switch it up as its the only way to expose different strategies to either side.  I admit we cannot always get 4 players together so we have been playing 2 player games that makes it easy to alternate sides.

 

There's nothing wrong with house rules, but going overboard can ruin the fun of the game.  Playing both sides is a good way of getting an understanding of what is fair to change and what is crippling.  'Handicaps' are sometimes a better approach if one player is better than the other.


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#110 zangetsu666

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:03 AM

Blocking is allowed every ol does it the point I was making is if the ol dashes half his monsters onto the exit tile to stop the heros getting onto it then were is the fun in that as you have 6 turns to find the combination to the lock in honor amongst theives and half off you searchable tokens are volcrix reavers and as soon as you unvover one it attacks you so my point was if you pile monsters on the exit then they should be taken off the board as they are on the exit I have no problem being blocked from getting somewere just not on the exit tile. That may just be me and try playing it with the plauge worms as theytake away your stamina by burrowing under you so you pretty much lose your ability to stamina move.

 

 

W  W

PWPW

PWPWPW     

W    W PW      

 

 

thats the exit tile and corner of tile 20A ol's out there think that this set up is fair in a 6 turn game when you have to turn over other tokens to find the code to the lock that the ol decides and half these tokens are volcrix reavers that get to attack imediately upon reveal.


Edited by zangetsu666, 13 November 2013 - 05:30 AM.


#111 MadBat

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:08 AM

Well, there are many strategies that allow you to move around this.

Blast was mentioned, same as spiritspeaker, but also weapons and heroes that can move through monsters.

Some heroes can also teleport...

 

You probably should know how the OL is planning to play this map, so adapt to it.

If you don't have the heroes with the correct feats or weapons, go blunt force.

You just need to kill the first PW to allow you to get on that 2x2 tile with any hero to win.



#112 zangetsu666

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:35 AM

Yea I know this but ypu actually need to kill the 3 pw to het to the first exit sqaure and you have to double move to get down the lenhth of the tile peice its so then youd have no attack so you cant blunt force even the heros with monster mobe thrpugh abilities xouldnt get through as there is no free space for them to end in I just dont see standing on the exit is a fair move on this quest.




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