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Dust Miniatures Are NOT 1/48 Scale!


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#21 FlorisH

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 08:50 PM

Warboss Krag said:

 

Okay, you idiots

 

 

Really?

It is made clear that you are incorrect and you decide to reply with that?
Here is something I tell my children (and by your replies I'm guessing you are the same age as them)
"Just because you don't like the answer you are given, doesn't mean it is wrong"



#22 Warboss Krag

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 10:10 PM

Was a bit petulant; I chalk it up to just having come off World of Tanks and having had to suffer a great deal of MMO idiocy. Still fuming a bit then…

The Dust humans still look a bit off next to my scale model 1/48 scale humans. Vehicles? Wouldn't matter so much, I guess. The point is that I'm talking a well-established modelling scale, in an industry that solidly established the 6' height human standard long, long ago. I'm quibbling about the technical scale, you see, not necessarily the actual sculpts of Dust Tactics minis, which are occasionally varied (Experiment X is a much better sculpted model than his zombie brethren). The 'argument' about historical human heights and all is a bit facile: The established scale-model scale does not care. Its parameters have already been set.

Actually, I'm guessing that the original scratch-builder creator of the line worked with 1/48 bits - I'm not sure; the only reference works I can find online are in Japanese, which is not a language I understand, much less read. That the actual soldier minis aren't as exacting as a military model (particularly those made by a Japanese company - they are brutally exact!) is, I suppose, to be expected of game models.

(Can't complain about the price difference, though. Try buying a Hasegawa 1/48 scale tank. The Dust walker sets are fantastic bargains by comparison.)



#23 FlorisH

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 10:17 PM

Warboss Krag said:

Was a bit petulant; I chalk it up to just having come off World of Tanks and having had to suffer a great deal of MMO idiocy. Still fuming a bit then…

 



#24 BDub

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:34 AM

Aside from the fact that some measure scale from the top of the head, some from the eyes, some include the base, some don't - I'm going to go out on a limb and say Tamiya, Dragon, and dozens of others know what 1/48th scale looks like, and I'll be damned if they don't match dust minis rather nicely.

BTW, 1/48th is a fairly recent scale (in popularity) and unless you are in your late teens/early twenties, you probably dont have a lot of left-over 1:48 from your childhood.  Are you sure your not looking at 1:35? - that's been around a lot longer.



#25 Shadow4ce

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:16 AM

BDub said:

Aside from the fact that some measure scale from the top of the head, some from the eyes, some include the base, some don't - I'm going to go out on a limb and say Tamiya, Dragon, and dozens of others know what 1/48th scale looks like, and I'll be damned if they don't match dust minis rather nicely.

BTW, 1/48th is a fairly recent scale (in popularity) and unless you are in your late teens/early twenties, you probably dont have a lot of left-over 1:48 from your childhood.  Are you sure your not looking at 1:35? - that's been around a lot longer.

1/48 was very popular in aircraft back in the 70's and early 89's, but most of my tracks were 1/35 back then. But I'm betting Krag knows his 1/48 stuff from his 1/35. 



#26 Warboss Krag

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 01:10 AM

Right you are, Shadowace. Dumbest model I ever saw was a Tiger I in 1/48 from Tamiya. It was one of their complete line, meaning that it had ALL its internal machinery, right down to the cotter pin holding the seal on the fire extinguisher. And when the innards were completed, you put the hull top on and viola! never did you see all that internal work again.

1/48 was, and still is, very very popular with aircraft. That scale was the intermediate size for aircraft since the 1960s - yes, I was around then! And you haven't seen BIG until you've seen a B-36 Peacekeeper in that scale!!!



#27 Shadow4ce

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 02:29 AM

Warboss Krag said:

Right you are, Shadowace. Dumbest model I ever saw was a Tiger I in 1/48 from Tamiya. It was one of their complete line, meaning that it had ALL its internal machinery, right down to the cotter pin holding the seal on the fire extinguisher. And when the innards were completed, you put the hull top on and viola! never did you see all that internal work again.

1/48 was, and still is, very very popular with aircraft. That scale was the intermediate size for aircraft since the 1960s - yes, I was around then! And you haven't seen BIG until you've seen a B-36 Peacekeeper in that scale!!!

Actually, the 4 isn't an A, it's a four, making the name if spelled out, "ShadowForce" not ace. When I came up with that years ago, I wasn't aware of kids' Interwebz "leet" speak.  Regretted it for years, and decided (as my new year's resolution this year) to change my name on any new forums. 

Biggest 1/48 scale I had was a Monogram or Revell (can't remember which) B-17G. But I had a 1/32 F4U Corsair that made it look tiny. I can't imagine a 1/32 B-36, lol. 



#28 Warboss Krag

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:32 AM

1/48 B-36 has a wingspan larger than my own, which is to say wider than my arms' reach of 6'. Huge. Absolutely huge. In 1/32 scale? (A scale I believe is exclusively Monogram.) Gee whiz! You'd have to have a separate building to store it.



#29 AddictedToStyrene

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 08:09 PM

You guys are arguing in circles and you have a few problems with the argument. (Note: I am talking about the range of minis for Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare, not the 1/35 collectibles that Dust also make.)

Short version: Dust vehicle models are roughly 1/48. Dust soldier figures are much larger than 1/48. If you buy other WW2 minis, be careful because they will probably be smaller. If you buy realistic 1/48 model kits, they will probably look OK next to Dust models, but the realistic 1/48 soldiers will be way too small.

First: scales, like 1/35 or 1/48 are only useful if you can accurately measure something. A tank is easy to measure, so it's simpler to make a model kit and check that it's the right scale. A 1/48 tank is very roughly the size of an old Nokia mobile phone. A 1/35 tank is very roughly the size of a couple of paperback books, stacked up. A 1/48 plastic model soldier, standing up straight, is about 35-40mm (1.5 in) tall, and a lot skinnier than a wargames figure. A 1/35 plastic model soldier is about 50=55mm (2 in) tall. Of course, Dust is a made up game, with made up vehicles. They can fudge the scale for them, if they want to.

Second, as lots of people point out, a human figure is very difficult to measure unless it's standing straight up. The figures in Dust are wearing boots and helmets, they are hunched over, their guns are way bigger than realistic WW2 guns would be, and they are on thick plastic bases. What scale are they? I don't know, but they are a lot bigger than the little figures that Tamiya put in their 1/48 model kits. 

Third, wargames figures are often described in scales like 25mm or 28mm. That's not very useful, as every manufacturer has a different idea how big that is. Even in the same company, the figures might be different sizes. They are generally sculpted by hand first (although some games companies now design on computer in 3D) before they are put into production. They are often from exciting fictional universes, so the sculptor wants facial expressions, muscles, weapons, poses and gear to be exaggerated. They look cool, rather than realistic. The most popular Science Fiction wargame on the market is generally described as Heroic 28mm scale. In 30 odd years of making minis, that company has slightly increased the size of their figures. There are several WW2 wargames on the market, most claiming to be 25mm or 28mm scale. Their figures are more realistic (but still chunkier than real people, and much bigger than plastic Tamiya 1/48 figures) but their vehicles tend to be smaller than 1/48 scale. Some people call that 1/56, which might be nearer the mark.

Fourth, in a lot of wargames, vehicles and weapon ranges are shrunk so that they can fit more easily on the table top. In real life, a squad of soldiers can fire accurately out to hundreds of metres. A tank gun or a missile can hit a target several kilometres away. Armoured vehicles can move at up to 100 km/h (60m/h) and they can fight at 20-30 km/h (15-20 m/h). So, if you had 1/48 scale soldiers in a 'realistic' wargame, they could be tens of metres apart. You would have to play all your games on full size basketball courts! Also, a more realistic scale vehicle would take up more of the table and block line of sight too much. So, vehicle models and soldier models are different scales in the same game. 

Lastly, Dust make models for game play, in what they call their 1/48 range, and for modellers and collectors in what they call 1/35. That's cool because you can make a diorama with a walker and a realistic tank next to each other, and you can use building and other model kits from your local hobby shop. 

So here's the answers you have all been looking for:

Dust vehicle model kits are roughly 1/48 scale. If you buy 1/48 plastic model kits, they will look OK next to each other. The exception is for details like machine guns and jerry cans, which are much larger on the Dust models, than they are on the accurate model kits. However, model ranges from WW2 miniatures games may look too small next to Dust models.

Dust soldier models are roughly 'heroic 28mm' scale. If you put them next to accurate 1/48 scale model figures, the 1/48 guys will look tiny. If you put them next to 'heroic 28mm scale' figures, they will look about right. Wargames figures from most WW2 ranges will look smaller than dust figures, although some people suggest that that's ok, because the Dust guys are 'Supersoldiers', which is a nice idea.

Mixing soldier models and vehicle models is where the scale argument falls apart. If you use a WW2 model Jeep in 1/56 or 25mm, or even 28mm scale, with Dust minis, you will immediately see that the Jeep looks tiny. If you can still play like that, and you enjoy the game (because it's just toy soldiers) then good on you! If you can, check out WW2 minis in a shop before you buy a lot of them. Take a Dust mini with you to compare. If you can't, try and search for comparison photos on the net. You might save yourself some heartbreak.

Lastly, scenery, terrain and diorama materials are much easier to run with. As long as soldiers can 'move' through doorways, and fire over low walls and wreckage, then you can be a lot more flexible the scale of buildings and terrain. Just like the hatches on vehicles, and jerry cans, etc, the eye will only see mistakes with human scale things, like doors and windows. A good tip for building your own terrain is to have a couple of toy soldiers handy so you can check that you are still putting things in the right scale for your wargame.

 



#30 Shadow4ce

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:33 AM

 Actually, the "argument" was 2 months dead until your "wall of text" necromancy. 

Please people, if it's over 30 days old, leave it alone or, if you must, start a new thread with your slant on the topic. Just be aware that if nobody has posted there for 30 days, the community either resolved the topic already, or became exasperated enough with it to let it lie in a state of, "agree to disagree" so we can discuss something of new relevance/interest. 






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