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#41 mrady

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:33 AM

Dulahan said:

tuco said:

 

I'm torn on the Ogryn idea.  Part of me would love to play an Ogryn, but another part of me is certainly hesitant due mostly to how GW has far more often than not portrayed them as stupid to the point of being nearly handicapped and the comedy relief. 

 

 

 

 

My biggest issue with Abhumans is they aren't typically in mixed units.  they are kept quite separate.  Maybe an Ogryn bodyguard here and there.  But you don't see a random Ratline sniper in with any given Guard regiment.  Let alone Ogryns.  They're their own thing.

 

I could see a Abhuman in a mix regiment. as individual squads or even companies. like a Ogryn squad attached to a armour patrol or a ratling sniper with a scout squad. more as a loan than an accutal part of the regiment. to take a leaf out of the US military, we have some airforce personal attached to and agmenting army units.



#42 Warboss Krag

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:56 PM

I believe that arcraft crew, including those in Valkyries, are actually Fleet, as in the Imperial Fleet! Mind you, they'd actually be closer to the old Army Air Force than true Fleet (like Navy corpsmen attached to Marine units), but they'd still technically be Fleet.



#43 Dulahan

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 03:44 PM

Someone over on RPGnet has apparently read the FRPG day book…

 

Comes with:  Female Heavy Gunner, Commando Sort, Techpriest sort, and an Ogryn.

 

I know a lot of you will be happy for the latter one. But  I'm quite unhappy for what it implies for power level and/or balance in general.  Something that can go toe to toe with a Space Marine with good odds is not a good PC type when the rest are normal humans if you ask me.  Plus how such 'big dumb' races tend to get played by people in my experience is game breaking both in terms of how they act and how powerful they get.

 

Definitely the first bit of info that truly worries me about the game.



#44 The Russian

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:00 PM

Yeah, I'm hopping its not a real leak. -_- Ogryns? Probably Ratlings too…



#45 Dulahan

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:03 PM

Ratlings I'm not as worried about, if only because they're so much less known…

 

But the Ogryn makes sense since we know it's on the cover. :(  Of course we know a Commissar is too, but that didn't happen.  Though could be one of the two bonus characters (IF they bother releasing those, they've been so bad at previews I'm worried if they'll even release the FRPG day PDF!)



#46 The Russian

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:07 PM

I suppose, I'm not a fan of abhumans, Space Frodo… bothers me. As do Ogryns… there is definitely a power level hint here, unless the drawbacks are heavy to level it out. They did have CSMs and Humans in BC but their focus was in different places, which will not fit the same way in OW…



#47 Dulahan

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:11 PM

The Russian said:

 

I suppose, I'm not a fan of abhumans, Space Frodo… bothers me. As do Ogryns… there is definitely a power level hint here, unless the drawbacks are heavy to level it out. They did have CSMs and Humans in BC but their focus was in different places, which will not fit the same way in OW…

 

 

 

I think Ratlings are stupid.  To be fair.  But even if they are included, they still wouldn't be overpowered compared to the rest.  They'd fit in the same rough power level.

 

But Ogryns?  This is something that can go toe to toe… unarmored… with a fully power armored Space Marine and have a good chance, if not a great chance.  That is not a good thing to me.

 

Power levels?  It implies either an Ascension level of power from the get go, or at minimum Rogue Trader…  and still leaves Ogryn overpowered (Sorry, not until Ascension that equality even close…  And that only if the Ogryn has 0 talents to a very kitted out level character)…  Or a level of balance that will be a nightmare.  As a GM, the sort of thing that might threaten an Ogryn is likely to paste any human PCs as an afterthought.  

 

EDIT:  HECK, in the first Wordbearers book, one took out a Terminator.

EDIT 2: And the TT game, one is easily a match for a terminator, what with their high strength, toughness, and wounds.



#48 The Russian

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:16 PM

Yeah… It is a bit of a gap. I know I'll not allow them when I GM it…Ratlings too. Not that I know anyone who would want to play one either way.



#49 Dulahan

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:42 PM

People love hobbits, that's probably why.

 

WHY they love them I don't know.  But darn it, they do.   I blame Lord of the Rings.  But I even hated hobbits in those!



#50 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:47 PM

 I like ratlings. The whole hobbit crossed with a sniper thing really works for me.

Half Bilbo Baggins, half Vasily Zaitsev.



#51 Face Eater

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 03:00 AM

Sure does, most of time you're IG soldiers are giving away size to the bag guys so giving away more size and being even sneakier is just playing to strengths. Bilbo Baggins would have had a lot more street cred if he'd been blowing peoples heads off. Hopefully they are going to be more than one trick ponies (albiet with a really good trick). There's potentially there for any sneaky or non-direct shootout roles, divers, sappers etc.

For Ogryns, and I've said this before, they are a head ache to balance, especially early game. A big factor later is ensure that they are prevented from keeping up with gear upgrades. They aren't supposed to be smart enough to figure out most standard IG gear. Them being strong as bull isn't quite as a good the benefit if you are hulking catachan with a powerfist. Being as tough as house is good but if you can't get the good carapace armour that fits, or the refractor fields.

If they can use all the same gear then you might as well play the ogryn all the time. If they can use auto-cannons then the Ogryns gonna carry it easier and be harder to put down, if they can't then there's a pretty good reason to play something else right there.



#52 Warboss Krag

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:04 AM

Ogryns will have distinct limits on their skills - remember, a 'bonehead' is one that has been cybernetically enhanced to bring him up to an intellect level where he can understand intellectual concepts (dimly) more complex than "eat," "hit," "um, pull trigga?" and, of course, "fart." In the old ork books, ogryns were considered inferior to the boys in 'finky bitz," which is saying something! Face it, Ogryns are thick. They're not gonna have many skills beyond basic Speak Low Gothic (Literacy will literally be beyond them), Awareness, and maybe Trade: Cook. And their Int score will probably be 2D10+5, at the most.

As for ratlings, c'mon, who doesn't see the potential for playing the 'little guy' from war stories? There's plenty of room for the Tough Scrapper, the Sneaky Git, the Deadly Nutbar (I keep thinking the knife-wielding guy from Stripes), and, of course, the Wheeler-Dealer.



#53 Dulahan

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:14 AM

 

 

Face Eater said:

 

 

For Ogryns, and I've said this before, they are a head ache to balance, especially early game. A big factor later is ensure that they are prevented from keeping up with gear upgrades. They aren't supposed to be smart enough to figure out most standard IG gear. Them being strong as bull isn't quite as a good the benefit if you are hulking catachan with a powerfist. Being as tough as house is good but if you can't get the good carapace armour that fits, or the refractor fields.

If they can use all the same gear then you might as well play the ogryn all the time. If they can use auto-cannons then the Ogryns gonna carry it easier and be harder to put down, if they can't then there's a pretty good reason to play something else right there.

 

 

 

Reaper Autocannons are evil…  they'll just be crap shots.

 

Also, no Carpace armor?  Who cares, the likely Unnatural Toughness plus a base toughness of 5+ is going to more than make the difference, especially when combined with likely far more wounds.  Plus, they tend to have some armor too, big metal plates.  :P

 

Energy shields, ok, I'll grant you that.



#54 Warboss Krag

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:29 PM

Yer, da big pinkies is surposed ter be too fick ter use a bolta, see? So day got dese big shotty-guns called 'rippas.' Easy ter use, 'n fun! (And the stats already exist in the game: Introduced in Rogue Trader as the deck sweeper heavy weapon.)



#55 segara82

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:24 AM

I will try to get back to the topic:

'Classes' still missing in my opinion:

Sniper/stealth oriented person

Demolition specialist - for all your fireworks

Driver/Pilot - someone who can drive/hotwire anything. and i mean anything.


Courage is the mastery of fear - not the absence of fear


#56 venkelos

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:55 AM

Any thoughts on how they might be running Commissars? I can't imagine most players would enjoy getting one-shotted for a single mistake, but that might be what a Commissar does, as a morale officer. It just seems odd to me to make one of the available PC options the character who makes a living out of party member kills. Sure, they can be "your friend" to a point, and they do want you to stay alive, to fight for the Emperor, so I understand they have more potential than "cap the officer", "it's for your own good, psyker", and "if it keeps us here, I WILL kill one of you". Maybe the RPG will change it to maiming shots; pain is a great motivator, and "seeing the Emperor's glory within you pain-addled brain" could keep you fighting.

On the other hand, good access to carapace armor (while TT Commissars don't start with it, some of them do pick it up), earlier access to power swords (possibly), and a bolt pistol with a steady supply of ammo would be nice.



#57 Black_Kestrel

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:25 AM

Comissars and Abhumans are all in the Eleventh Hour character supplement now available in the FFG web site.



#58 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:52 PM

Well there we go – Ogryn and Ratlings officially confirmed. Sure was frustrating watching people guess Ratlings and not guess Ratlings and not being able to say anything.

 

Not many more to be revealed now.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#59 Cifer

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:30 PM

@venkelos

Any thoughts on how they might be running Commissars?

Regarding the demo adventure, that's easy - the Commissar is attached to a Catachan squad. If she's not completely green, that means she knows what happens to Commissars throwing their weight around too much.



#60 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:44 PM

And especially what happens when they throw their weight around in Catachan regiments. Unpopular Commissars tend to have ‘unfortunate accidents’ in regiments like that.

 

And at the end of the day her life is on the line as much as everyone else is. She can rant and scream about cowardice all she likes – won’t make a bit of difference when the bombardment starts!

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.





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