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#41 Aahzmandius_Karrde

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 03:39 PM

Parakitor said:

I agree that the Imperial Shuttle is a nice choice, but it would have to be more competitive than that awful rendition in the Starship Battles game. Granted, they aren't combat craft, but they're big enough that they ought to be able to hold their own against a couple starfighters. The other concern is game balance. Budgernaut and I have racked our brains but we could not come up with an appropriate counterpart to the Imperial Shuttle on the Rebel side. Unless, perhaps, it came with a Rebel card entitled "Stolen Imperial Shuttle Tydirium." …Has this already been mentioned here on the forums? Oh well.

Game balance is called a built in point system where it's easy total up a few starfighters on the Rebel side to equal the point value of the single Imperial Shuttle.


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#42 Parakitor

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:56 AM

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

Parakitor said:

 

I agree that the Imperial Shuttle is a nice choice, but it would have to be more competitive than that awful rendition in the Starship Battles game. Granted, they aren't combat craft, but they're big enough that they ought to be able to hold their own against a couple starfighters. The other concern is game balance. Budgernaut and I have racked our brains but we could not come up with an appropriate counterpart to the Imperial Shuttle on the Rebel side. Unless, perhaps, it came with a Rebel card entitled "Stolen Imperial Shuttle Tydirium." …Has this already been mentioned here on the forums? Oh well.

 

 

Game balance is called a built in point system where it's easy total up a few starfighters on the Rebel side to equal the point value of the single Imperial Shuttle.

Woops! You're absolutely right that the point system is good for game balance. I guess what I was thinking of was marketing balance. When they release the Slave I it will be countered by the Millennium Falcon. My question still stands: can you think of a good counterpart to the Imperial Shuttle on the Rebel side?


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#43 IG-58

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:14 AM

B-Wing is probably closest, though it's tougher than the shuttle. No perfect analogue, really. Outrider?



#44 Budgernaut

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:43 AM

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

Parakitor said:

 

I agree that the Imperial Shuttle is a nice choice, but it would have to be more competitive than that awful rendition in the Starship Battles game. Granted, they aren't combat craft, but they're big enough that they ought to be able to hold their own against a couple starfighters. The other concern is game balance. Budgernaut and I have racked our brains but we could not come up with an appropriate counterpart to the Imperial Shuttle on the Rebel side. Unless, perhaps, it came with a Rebel card entitled "Stolen Imperial Shuttle Tydirium." …Has this already been mentioned here on the forums? Oh well.

 

 

Game balance is called a built in point system where it's easy total up a few starfighters on the Rebel side to equal the point value of the single Imperial Shuttle.

I don't put much stock in game designers' point systems. They're never consistent and at the end of a game line, you have completely inconsistent point costs for different pieces. I'm mainly referring to Star Wars Miniatures Game by Wizards of the Coast. It's so frustrating to try and play a game if you use pieces from the first set and the last. I'm expecting the same thing with later sets in this game, so when it's all said and done, the player community will probably have to reassign point values.

But otherwise, yes point systems ideally balance the game.


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#45 Agrivar

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:03 AM

 The closest rebel counterpart to an Imperial Shuttle could be an "standard" light freighter. Something like the Millenium Falcon without all the fancy modifications added by Han Solo (so it would be slower, lesser agile, resistant and armed). Canon-wise, it would be acceptable because in one of the prequel movies (Episode II) they appear some light freighters landed in a Coruscant spaceport.

The main problem of having a stock light freighter as the Rebel counterpart of the Imperial Shuttle is that the model would look almost identical to the Millenium Falcon model. It would resemble a Falcon with an alternate paint scheme.



#46 Parakitor

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:12 AM

Agrivar said:

The main problem of having a stock light freighter as the Rebel counterpart of the Imperial Shuttle is that the model would look almost identical to the Millenium Falcon model. It would resemble a Falcon with an alternate paint scheme.

I agree that alternate paint schemes for larger craft wouldn't be a good thing, but a stock freighter is a decent idea. What if they chose something other than a YT-1300? Perhaps an Action VI transport? That one can also be seen in "Attack of the Clones" at the Naboo docking area.


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#47 Budgernaut

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:42 AM

 Isn't that the same ship the Wild Karrde is? I think a lot of people who saw that in the store would think they were buying Talon Karrde's ship. Of course, you could easily put his crew on one of the cards and have a few other generic pilot cards as well. But from that point of view, you could do the same with the Falcon


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#48 DaveNYC

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:24 PM

Parakitor said:

I agree that the Imperial Shuttle is a nice choice, but it would have to be more competitive than that awful rendition in the Starship Battles game. Granted, they aren't combat craft, but they're big enough that they ought to be able to hold their own against a couple starfighters. The other concern is game balance. Budgernaut and I have racked our brains but we could not come up with an appropriate counterpart to the Imperial Shuttle on the Rebel side. Unless, perhaps, it came with a Rebel card entitled "Stolen Imperial Shuttle Tydirium." …Has this already been mentioned here on the forums? Oh well.

Great point, but I see the shuttle almost as a game objective: either destroy it or protect it.



#49 Dog Solitude

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:55 PM

Parakitor said:

 Perhaps an Action VI transport? That one can also be seen in "Attack of the Clones" at the Naboo docking area.

 

I was thinking the same thing.  You just beat me to it.  



#50 Agrivar

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:51 PM

I didn't know that an Action VI transport appeared in "Attack of the Clones"! Although that sort of canonizes the model, that ship is perhaps too big (125 meters long according to wookiepedia), its size being closer to a corellian corvette than a shuttle.

Another candidate would be the rebel medium transport used during the evacuation of Hoth (GR-75 medium transport). With 90 meters long, its size is a bit more manageable, and suposedly there exists a smaller variant (GR-45) that appears in the CGI-enhanced Mos Eisley spaceport sequence of "A New Hope", which being 60 meters long she is about two times the size of the Millenium Falcon. Although I suspect that this "smaller variant" was supposed to be the original model, but the CGI modellers didn't get the size right.



#51 Budgernaut

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:25 PM

DaveNYC said:

Parakitor said:

 

I agree that the Imperial Shuttle is a nice choice, but it would have to be more competitive than that awful rendition in the Starship Battles game. Granted, they aren't combat craft, but they're big enough that they ought to be able to hold their own against a couple starfighters. The other concern is game balance. Budgernaut and I have racked our brains but we could not come up with an appropriate counterpart to the Imperial Shuttle on the Rebel side. Unless, perhaps, it came with a Rebel card entitled "Stolen Imperial Shuttle Tydirium." …Has this already been mentioned here on the forums? Oh well.

 

 

Great point, but I see the shuttle almost as a game objective: either destroy it or protect it.

This brings up a question: will tournaments be strictly dogfights, or will they be scenario-based. If the shuttle is only for objectives and tournaments are only dogfights, I have trouble imagining they'll sell a lot of shuttles. I have a hunch that either such a ship would have a substantial attack upgrade, or they'll surprise me by having scenario competitions.


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#52 Budgernaut

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:10 PM

  I have a question about future expansions. Let's assume that they're going to do repeats of X-wings and TIE Fighters in the future and release them with new pilots and equipment. If we see new X-wing and new TIE Fighter pilots, will they be able to fly the old X-wings and TIE Fighters, or will they only be able to fly the new expansion packs that may have some alternate paint schemes or different mounting positions so the ships look different?

From a marketing perspective, if they release new TIE and X-wing packs that have the exact same ship but new pilots, somebody with a good collection can buy one of each and start incorporating all the new pilots into their squads. That's not very many sales for the new expansion.

If they decide to make the models different, however, they're likely to sell 2 or 3 of each new expansion (depending on how good the pilots are), but they'll have the increased production cost of designing a new model.

I really can't figure out which would be more economical, but as a player, I would prefer repeat packs to use the same model so pilots are completely interchangeable with the older ships.


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#53 Aahzmandius_Karrde

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:00 PM

Budgernaut said:

I really can't figure out which would be more economical, but as a player, I would prefer repeat packs to use the same model so pilots are completely interchangeable with the older ships.

Mechanically the model is gravy.  All the bases for all ships will probably be the same base (though bigger ships may need bigger ones) and since I expect the base toppers with initiative/skill of the pilots will come with each pilot card…  


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#54 Parakitor

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:42 PM

Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

Budgernaut said:

 

I really can't figure out which would be more economical, but as a player, I would prefer repeat packs to use the same model so pilots are completely interchangeable with the older ships.

 

 

Mechanically the model is gravy.  All the bases for all ships will probably be the same base (though bigger ships may need bigger ones) and since I expect the base toppers with initiative/skill of the pilots will come with each pilot card…  

I totally agree: there is no reason to assume that future expansions will be incompatible with current fighters of the same type. I will say this, Budgernaut: if they come out with alternate paint schemes it would be fun to get the different colors so you could visually designate your flightgroups e.g. 3 red X-wings in Red Flight and 3 green X-wings in Green Flight. Probably won't work so well with the Empire ships, but that's alright. If you play with teams it would be a great way to differentiate players' ships as well.


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#55 Qingtian

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:12 AM

I would like to see more variation of card? Maybe a boost pack just contain more pilot / ship options.

For example, in the expanded universe, they mentioned that eventual Imperial started to fit TIE series of fighter with shield as pilot was not as expendable as in previous era.

Just imagine an X-wing Pilot who shot at Tie Fighter and noticed it actually have shields.






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