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Grey Knight PC in a Party of Acolytes


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#1 SC_Andy

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 04:35 PM

 Hi. I am starting a game in a couple of week and the players have agreed to start as acolytes (not Ascension) but one player wants to play a Grey Knight. Any suggestions on how I can fit him in the party and try to equalise the power levels?

Thanks.



#2 Zakalwe

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:10 PM

SC_Andy said:

 Hi. I am starting a game in a couple of week and the players have agreed to start as acolytes (not Ascension) but one player wants to play a Grey Knight. Any suggestions on how I can fit him in the party and try to equalise the power levels?

Thanks.

Put siimply, you can't.  Explain that you are playing Dark Heresy.  Even in Deamon Hunter it says that the Grey Knight options aren't appropriate for retinues of Acolytes.


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#3 TehNuffster

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:29 AM

Zakalwe is correct, there isn't any plausible way to put a starting group of acolytes in with a Grey Knight. Not only because of the sheer OP'ness of the Grey one but also because in terms of lore the lowly acolytes would have to be horribly murdered for even so much as seeing Mr. Knighty pants. If they are really set on playing a Grey Knight then perhaps you can run a parrel campaign where your group also get to play as a band of Grey Knights that ride in a kick the snot out of daemons that the regular acolytes have dug up.

If they continue to whine, tell them to go play Deathwatch or something.



#4 Darth Smeg

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:45 AM

Yeah, you might as well suggest you bring a tank to a cowboys'n'injuns game.


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Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

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#5 Santiago

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:56 AM

 The Grey Knight starts out at 13.000xp, so if you give the regular pc's double that it should bring some balance.
I would advise against it.



#6 Zakalwe

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:28 PM

Of course you could offer the possibility of the Grey Knights coming in to clear out a demon infestation the Acolytes uncover and let the whole party play Grey Knights for that one-off mission.

I have a similar scenario tucked away in my mind which features Space Marines bought in by the Inquistor to deal with a foe that is too tough for the PCs as a 'heavy combat light relief' interlude.



#7 SC_Andy

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 04:35 AM

The group agreed to be Ascension-level characters. I've never GM'ed Ascension before, so I'm not too sure how to run a campaign with such high-level PCs.



#8 Sister Callidia

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 04:55 AM

SC_Andy said:

The group agreed to be Ascension-level characters. I've never GM'ed Ascension before, so I'm not too sure how to run a campaign with such high-level PCs.

 

Don't!

Not only has the Ascension book some major problems, gaming on that level is pretty hard to do things right People have no feel for how to play an acolyte and how things work. Let them start as normal accolytes instead and slowly advance them to Ascension levels. At which time you can allow the Grey Knight to enter.

 



#9 SC_Andy

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 02:32 PM

 It's a little late for that since the players have already created their characters and we've had our first session. The players are well-seasoned DH veterans but I'm treating the party as high-level acolytes to make things easier for myself. Unfortunately, most of the PCs have psychic abilities, though only one true Pysker excluding the Gray Knight, and no really talky chars. They shoot first and ask questions later. And their attitudes (the PCs) and actions tend to piss people off. Well, I get to plan the backlash later, which isn't too bad.



#10 Darth Smeg

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 07:18 PM

Let them keep doing that. Then let them gun down the important informant with the info they needed, and watch them try to interrogate a corpse.

Dead men tell no tales, which can be a drag when you're investigating a covert cult or something. "Drat, we seem to have killed our leads. Well, no other option then: Nuke from Orbit!" :)


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My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#11 SC_Andy

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:20 AM

The thing is that they're playing Radicals, even the Grey Knight. Every PC seems to be having some issues withing, such as failing faith. Now, I don't have any issues with this but they just polished off a Herald of Slaanesh in one round - having 4 players with psychic abilities, as they are allowed  to take Sorcery powers.

Fortunately, I have something of a greater challenge (esp to the psykers) and I'm not sure to spring it on them in the next session. I had planned for them to come into the story when they have done sufficient investigation. Unfortunately, they happen to be a big fan of 'Tell us/do as we say or we torture you', even after they frighten the plebs with psychic powers. Any suggestions on how to make the fight last longer than just one or two rounds, short of flinging untouchable extra tough & high damaging titans.

Thanks.

Andy



#12 coolzyg

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:32 AM

Well some time ago I had great idea to play as Ascension Thrones Agents. I can tell that I never had such horrible experience with RPG. Making enemies for group was not fun and we almost dropped WH RPG for good. Don't play Ascension as it is Forbidden Lore and it will corrupt your soul. I'm not kidding.



#13 TehNuffster

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:31 AM

SC_Andy said:

The thing is that they're playing Radicals, even the Grey Knight. Every PC seems to be having some issues withing, such as failing faith. Now, I don't have any issues with this but they just polished off a Herald of Slaanesh in one round - having 4 players with psychic abilities, as they are allowed  to take Sorcery powers.

Fortunately, I have something of a greater challenge (esp to the psykers) and I'm not sure to spring it on them in the next session. I had planned for them to come into the story when they have done sufficient investigation. Unfortunately, they happen to be a big fan of 'Tell us/do as we say or we torture you', even after they frighten the plebs with psychic powers. Any suggestions on how to make the fight last longer than just one or two rounds, short of flinging untouchable extra tough & high damaging titans.

Thanks.

Andy

 

You're guy/girl is playing the Grey Knight radical? So, he's not doing what he's meant to be doing in killing everyone for even thinking about dabbling in sorcery? Grey Knights CANNOT. BE. RADICAL. it literally goes against everythingt hey are and everything they stand for. You must punish this player for his/her poor roleplaying skills by sending a squad of his order to murder everything in a 20 mile radius. If one of my players tried such cheek I'd ***** slap them so hard the handprint would never leave thier face.

 

 



#14 coolzyg

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:07 AM

TehNuffster said:

SC_Andy said:

 

The thing is that they're playing Radicals, even the Grey Knight. Every PC seems to be having some issues withing, such as failing faith. Now, I don't have any issues with this but they just polished off a Herald of Slaanesh in one round - having 4 players with psychic abilities, as they are allowed  to take Sorcery powers.

Fortunately, I have something of a greater challenge (esp to the psykers) and I'm not sure to spring it on them in the next session. I had planned for them to come into the story when they have done sufficient investigation. Unfortunately, they happen to be a big fan of 'Tell us/do as we say or we torture you', even after they frighten the plebs with psychic powers. Any suggestions on how to make the fight last longer than just one or two rounds, short of flinging untouchable extra tough & high damaging titans.

Thanks.

Andy

 

 

 

You're guy/girl is playing the Grey Knight radical? So, he's not doing what he's meant to be doing in killing everyone for even thinking about dabbling in sorcery? Grey Knights CANNOT. BE. RADICAL. it literally goes against everythingt hey are and everything they stand for. You must punish this player for his/her poor roleplaying skills by sending a squad of his order to murder everything in a 20 mile radius. If one of my players tried such cheek I'd ***** slap them so hard the handprint would never leave thier face.

 

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Grey_knight

 

Well If GK can kill Sororitas and bath in their blood I can say that they are quite radical, all right :D



#15 CapitolImperialis

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:00 AM

coolzyg said:

TehNuffster said:

 

SC_Andy said:

 

The thing is that they're playing Radicals, even the Grey Knight. Every PC seems to be having some issues withing, such as failing faith. Now, I don't have any issues with this but they just polished off a Herald of Slaanesh in one round - having 4 players with psychic abilities, as they are allowed  to take Sorcery powers.

Fortunately, I have something of a greater challenge (esp to the psykers) and I'm not sure to spring it on them in the next session. I had planned for them to come into the story when they have done sufficient investigation. Unfortunately, they happen to be a big fan of 'Tell us/do as we say or we torture you', even after they frighten the plebs with psychic powers. Any suggestions on how to make the fight last longer than just one or two rounds, short of flinging untouchable extra tough & high damaging titans.

Thanks.

Andy

 

 

 

You're guy/girl is playing the Grey Knight radical? So, he's not doing what he's meant to be doing in killing everyone for even thinking about dabbling in sorcery? Grey Knights CANNOT. BE. RADICAL. it literally goes against everythingt hey are and everything they stand for. You must punish this player for his/her poor roleplaying skills by sending a squad of his order to murder everything in a 20 mile radius. If one of my players tried such cheek I'd ***** slap them so hard the handprint would never leave thier face.

 

 

 

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Grey_knight

 

Well If GK can kill Sororitas and bath in their blood I can say that they are quite radical, all right :D

You do know what a Radical is, right? It has nothing to do with Ward's terrible fluff-butchering of a story.

 

Also, I agree with TehNuffster - that is such bad roleplaying that is close to achieving 2 Hendersons on the Henderson Scale of Plot Derailment.



#16 TehNuffster

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:37 AM

The less said about that Matt Ward nonsense the better I think.



#17 KommissarK

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 07:42 AM

If the party is behaving like radicals, and I mean actually skirting falling to chaos, then I would imagine an opposing inquisitor may very well decide it is not worth the risk of the parties continued existence, and sick a culexus assassin on the party. The party is actively dabbling in sorcery. That alone crosses the line of what is "too far." It is one thing to understand with an intent to combat, it is another to use.Any Grey Knight would immediately turn his nemesis force weapon and storm bolter against any such individual found using such abilities.

You really need to reign your players in. You claim to have a Grey Knight behaving almost like a radical. Without details, its hard to proceed, but that simply sounds a bit too out there. A player can want to be a special snowflake, sure, but this may very well be too special of a snowflake. About the biggest struggle a GK should ever have is with the fear that realizing they may in fact have the dishonour of being the first Grey Knight to fall. Certainly, its possible, but its so unlikely it just doesn't happen.

Honestly, I got no real suggestions for you. The Grey Knight needs to realize that they are working with those who are committing grievous blasphemy. Encouraging party PvP though is simply never a good thing though, so in all honesty I don't know what to suggest.

Are you fine with the parties alignment, and just looking for a way to drag out combat? More enemies (look at horde rules), endless daemonic incursions (every time they destroy a horde, a new one appears. The goal is not to defeat all the enemies, but rather to stop the ritual). Make combat less about "kill all the enemies" and more about "we must do X before time runs out." Up the price of failure. Going into a straight up fight will always make the true enemy flee before they are ever at risk. Its fine that combat is lasting so few rounds, in all honesty, that's about as quick as a firefight like that should last, what you're players have to deal with is that they let the enemy get away if they engage too early. Do your players always seem to go first? Examine why that is, and make sure the opposition is able to keep up. If all else fails, cheat. It is a GM's right to use such a tool. You are keeping your rolls secret, correct? As long as it is for the purpose of keeping the game exciting, to keep the players on their toes, then they cannot hate you for it.

Perhaps a Herald of Slaneesh has 3 dodge actions and 75 agility, how the hell is the party supposed to know? Do they read the bestiary? Are they openly acknowledging to having out of character knowledge? It sounds to me like you have a fairly optimized party on your hands, their opposition should be equally skilled.

About the best I can come up with is a TPK, blank slate the thing, and get some nicer, low level acolytes in play up against more manageable foes, and back down to a scale that is humanly comprehensible at the start of play.

Sorry if I sound all over the place on this topic; it sounds like you have a real mess on your hands.



#18 Inquisitor Muffin

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:44 AM

 Just wondering - is Ascension really that bad?



#19 Zakalwe

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:16 AM

Inquisitor Muffin said:

 

 Just wondering - is Ascension really that bad?

 

 

Check the links here for opinions on that:

http://www.fantasyfl...=3&efidt=665269

Interrogator Z



#20 Inquisitor Muffin

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:39 AM

 Thanks you very much. Quite an interesting read.






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