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#41 Musclewizard

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:28 PM


 

 

 

beowulf101 said:

 

For unification of the system and so that no one has to keep buying the rules in a slightly tweaked format? Buying the rules five times over to play what is essentially the same game with new mechanics costs $300 (5 rulesets at $60 each). That's a disgrace. One core book, unified and overhauled mechanics and then you can have.... A single bestiary. A single armaments book. A single setting book for each tree of the game (BC, DH etc), and the books should cost less as a result of losing all of those pages of rules that were already bought.  

Aside from anything, the system is showing its age - compare DH to BC. Time for an overhaul.  

 

 

I can (mostly) agree with this. Compared to some people here in this thread I have no problem buying one more core rulebook mostly because I left out DW and because I buy only very few non-core rulebooks (usually the advanced players guide and that's about it).

Unrelated to actually buying the 5th core ruleset I hope that this will be the last core rulebook before a major overhaul both in mechanics and in printing / distribution policy. As people have pointed out core rulebooks do sell better but I hope that FFG can switch to a format that doesn't involve repriting large parts of the mechanics in various books.
Maybe a D&D style approach would work for the games with multiple smaller core rulebooks (similar to a players guide, dungeon masters guide and monster manual) and "setting" books that provide you with what you need to have if you want to run a Space Marine themed campaign similar to what WotC does with books like Setting-A Players Guide and Setting-A DM Guide.

 



#42 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:41 PM

Saygah said:

White men comparing weapon size while shouting "no homo" from the comfort of their couch isn't

 

What are you blithering about? What has any of that got to do with Only War.

And there's a woman on the front cover!!!

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#43 tuco

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:46 PM

Saygah said:


 

 

 

Lord Kruge said:

 

What offends me is your ignorance on the topic.  [snip] in the barracks, you may hate the fucker, but on the front line, he's the best friend you're ever going to have.

 

 

 

I'm not arguing about the realities of war. I'm talking about the fetishization of it. The current popular interpretation and use of what we're talking about has nothing to do with the troops engaged in military actions, and everything to do with armchair soldiers engaged in borderline homo-erotic self aggrandizement. Human beings pulling together to survive in difficult situations, military or otherwise, is a triumphant story. White men comparing weapon size while shouting "no homo" from the comfort of their couch isn't.

I have nothing but respect for anyone serving in the armed or emergency services. I was just a little disappointed to see FFG using chliched and, what some people including myself consider to be, offensive slogans in their marketing.

Game on!

I find your racist, sexist statement regarding white men offensive. 



#44 tuco

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:50 PM

I like the idea and I'll pick up at least the core book. 

What I do not want is a second edition.  I'm sick and tired of gaming lines being "rebooted" every two to five years.  Having to re-buy a game line because there's a new edition seems like a bigger money sink to me than a publisher offering new material that I don't already own. 



#45 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

So uhh... how many games is too many exactly? And how do we come to that conclusion? What’s it based on? Why is 4 just right but 5 too many? Why not 6? Or 7? How about 10? Lot of very arbitrary declarations about what’s ‘too much’ going on here. Rather amusing actually.

And why complain about having to buy yet another core rulebook. You don’t have to buy anything if you don’t want to. Only War is a separate game – not an expansion to another game – and thus it comes with the rules to play that game. Sure it might have begun life as a Dark Heresy supplement (why it changed I do not know), and yes, DH could sure do with a 2.0 update (or at least an extensive errata and reprint), but now it’s its own game. I thought the idea of Black Crusade was stupid when I first saw it, but I gave it a chance and now I really like it. Maybe some people should do the same here...

And, as an aside, I think there’s a good amount of people who would sell their own grandmothers for a Necromunda-based RPG.
 

 

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#46 Morkalg

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:57 PM

I don't get what everyone is griping about... if you think it's to much and don't want it don't get it. It was clearly described as a book that will work with all the other lines with the BONUS of having some interesting new rules! If cost is a factor for people, they do release PDF versions which are cheaper. I personally have a good mix of actual books and PDF's since FFG does release a lot and it's hard to keep up my collector zeal. I love that though! 

I guess I'm just saying that I'm glad to see lots of material being released in many different and useful ways for an IP that I am very interested in as opposed to a slow trickle or nothing at all and I was happily surprised about this release. 


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#47 tuco

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:00 PM

H.B.M.C. said:

So uhh... how many games is too many exactly? And how do we come to that conclusion? What’s it based on? Why is 4 just right but 5 too many? Why not 6? Or 7? How about 10? Lot of very arbitrary declarations about what’s ‘too much’ going on here. Rather amusing actually.

And why complain about having to buy yet another core rulebook. You don’t have to buy anything if you don’t want to. Only War is a separate game – not an expansion to another game – and thus it comes with the rules to play that game. Sure it might have begun life as a Dark Heresy supplement (why it changed I do not know), and yes, DH could sure do with a 2.0 update (or at least an extensive errata and reprint), but now it’s its own game. I thought the idea of Black Crusade was stupid when I first saw it, but I gave it a chance and now I really like it. Maybe some people should do the same here...

And, as an aside, I think there’s a good amount of people who would sell their own grandmothers for a Necromunda-based RPG.
 

 

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

So uhh... how many games is too many exactly? And how do we come to that conclusion? What’s it based on? Why is 4 just right but 5 too many? Why not 6? Or 7? How about 10? Lot of very arbitrary declarations about what’s ‘too much’ going on here. Rather amusing actually.

And why complain about having to buy yet another core rulebook. You don’t have to buy anything if you don’t want to. Only War is a separate game – not an expansion to another game – and thus it comes with the rules to play that game. Sure it might have begun life as a Dark Heresy supplement (why it changed I do not know), and yes, DH could sure do with a 2.0 update (or at least an extensive errata and reprint), but now it’s its own game. I thought the idea of Black Crusade was stupid when I first saw it, but I gave it a chance and now I really like it. Maybe some people should do the same here...

And, as an aside, I think there’s a good amount of people who would sell their own grandmothers for a Necromunda-based RPG.
 

 

BYE

 

My grandmother is long dead, but I'm willing to offer up any number of in-laws for said Necromunda RPG.  Please include the Red Redemption, Ratskins, and Spyerers.  And make House Delaque the best of all the gangs.  And I want Pit Fighters, too. 

Wait, is the selling of family members for an RPG offensive?  I don't want my games set in an imaginary world of violence, blood-letting, and subjugation to offend anyone.  That would be wrong. 



#48 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:03 PM

One game was enough. In my honest opinion, each extra game has felt like it should have been a supplement for the first game. And I am tired of te lie of "Fully compatible" as they are not even nearly compatible. OK, so Im a bit harsh there, they are slightly compatible and in need of much GM rules-making on the fly.

This is indeed the game I have wanted since Dark Heresy came out, but I honestly can see this being nothing but 75% retread from teh previous 4 games and supplements with only 25% truly new material. ITs actually exactly what I predicted in 2008. As the contract grows closer to expiring (assuming its a 5 year deal)  you will see more and more cash grabs by FFG.



#49 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

tuco said:

And make House Delaque the best of all the gangs.

 

How can you make them the best of all gangs when they are already the best of all gangs?

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#50 tuco

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:10 PM

H.B.M.C. said:

tuco said:

And make House Delaque the best of all the gangs.


 

 

How can you make them the best of all gangs when they are already the best of all gangs?

BYE

 

Trench coats, goggles, and sneakiness FTW!



#51 Lord Kruge

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

 Personally, I would much rather see full games giving incremental updates to the system instead of a reboot.  One book to run them all is a lot less books then one book for each possible theme/topic/culture in 40k.  Remember GW killed Dark Heresy once, the day after it sold out in two hours.  FFG doesn't need RPG numbers to impress, they need numbers that don't look inconsequential to the miniatures execs as well as justifying a possible RPG-to-wargames tie-in.  A full-blown IG game with all the vehicles in it, is just made for selling ridiculously expensive plastic vehicles to Roleplayers (who's gonna run a IG campaign without at least one Chimera?).

Now if they can just keep Ron Edwards...err I mean Jay Little's narrativist hands off the goddamn thing, they'd have a winner.  They should include in the Collector's Edition an Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer.



#52 Musclewizard

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

Peacekeeper_b said:

 

One game was enough. In my honest opinion, each extra game has felt like it should have been a supplement for the first game. And I am tired of te lie of "Fully compatible" as they are not even nearly compatible. OK, so Im a bit harsh there, they are slightly compatible and in need of much GM rules-making on the fly.

 

 

Come on now. Are you seriously telling me that there would have been a (reasonable) way of releasing RT as a DH supplement? Or Deathwatch?
Granted BC could probably have been a (bloated) supplement for DW but even that is quite a strech in my opinion.

Fully compatible is indeed not true but "slightly compatible" is an understatement in my opinion. Sure you have to adjust some psychic powers and DH monster will be way to weak for BC players but still, all of the fluff and large parts of the crunch can be used without any adjustment. The parts that do need adjusting are usually psychic powers (since those got the most changes), weapon attributes (since some of them are different like plasma weapons in DH and RT) and carrer paths if (and only if) you are going into BC. Everything else that I can think of can be used without any real problems.

Peacekeeper_b said:

 

As the contract grows closer to expiring (assuming its a 5 year deal) you will see more and more cash grabs by FFG.

 

 

This part of the post is actually what grabbed my attention. Ignoring what you assumed to know about the content of OW aside is there anything to suport this?

I don't know a lot about how Games Workshop and how they interact with FFG but it seems to me like FFG is doing a fantastic job with the 40k RPGs (that is from a Players and GMs standpoint, no from a financial one) and I'd like them to continue making 40k content so some information on the inner workings on any contracts between GW and FFG would be nice.



#53 Baradiel

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:06 PM

I agree with the OP, to a point.  I think this new game has potential, however, it seems like it would have been a better idea to expand upon the existing games first.  Also, it seems like if they were going to do a different line, at least do a full line to satify the players of xenos races.



#54 cd8dman

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:22 PM

Himmelweiss said:

I agree with the OP...

This is definetly one too many!

 

Also, in general, FFG is releasing too many RPGs and Card Games and Dust Tactics stuff lately.
The entire Site becomes more and more boring for a "Boardgamers" heart....

 

Most of the news is LCG stuff.  Warhammer Fantasy gets almost no love.

Overall though, the last year on this website, the news and updates have been fewer and less interesting.  A shame since it was the frequent updates and information that brought me here and opened my wallet to buying games. 



#55 Psion

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:35 PM

While I wish a great deal FFG kept things to the "original" trilogy... honestly my initial thoughts regarding this announcement are not so much disgust or excitement but more "wait... what?"  I mean I think I can understand the logic behind it, the Guard is a large organization with some radical shifts in scale players can be dumped into.  Other then that, I think I'm just going to wait and see.  It might be good or it might just prompt me to pass and wonder when the Admech/Tau supplement is coming out.



#56 Fabian Grax

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:18 PM

Sorry, formatting error. :P



#57 Fabian Grax

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:22 PM

H.B.M.C. said:

So uhh... how many games is too many exactly? And how do we come to that conclusion? What’s it based on? Why is 4 just right but 5 too many? Why not 6? Or 7? How about 10? Lot of very arbitrary declarations about what’s ‘too much’ going on here. Rather amusing actually.

I don't think it's so arbitrary--many of the naysayers said exactly why they aren't interested, the combined cost of all the rulebooks mounting up being one of the reasons. And let's think about this. If you're already playing one or more 40K RPG's, you might not simply have the room for another game. That's what people are complaining about, here. I won't begrudge anyone with an interest in this particular theme, but I think I'm squarely in the "no more room" camp.

As far as people not buying it, well, that could be exactly what happens here. Frankly I'm afraid FFG might be competing with itself a little bit too much.



#58 Blood Pact

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:01 PM

A sudden thought of mine, is that if the mechanics here are a success, we'll see the employed in a Dark Heresy 2e, possibly even with the game's starting level bumped up to par with BC and RT. And presumably Only War, since the news page mentions playing Storm Troopers, and those don't seem on par with Rank 1 DH characters to me.

Edit

It could also be an interesting way for them to add the Eldar in. If this isn't taking place in one of the current 4 locales, then that allows the option for wider inclusion of races that have seen less attention. Orks would be a good match for the Guard, possible (and of course Chaos). Eldar often times ally with human forces against a more dangerous enemy.

Also, I always liked DH, and thought it was the right way to start, because of just how cool being an Inquisitorial acolyte was shown to be, through the Eisenhorn novels and the like, as well as the more traditional roleplaying that is involved, as opposed to how Only War might be (though OW will in all likelihood do a better job of conveying the tumultuous nature of the 41st Millennium than DH).



#59 Dok Martin

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:12 PM

Fabian Grax said:

 

I don't think it's so arbitrary--many of the naysayers said exactly why they aren't interested, the combined cost of all the rulebooks mounting up being one of the reasons. And let's think about this. If you're already playing one or more 40K RPG's, you might not simply have the room for another game. That's what people are complaining about, here. I won't begrudge anyone with an interest in this particular theme, but I think I'm squarely in the "no more room" camp.

I was never interested in either Rogue Trader or Black Crusade, so I never bought the books. Only War however... that's an entirely different beast. :)

Really can't wait to see how they've handled the theme. If it's well done, this is a definite buy. And should they decide that the much awaited AdMech supplement will be made for Only War instead of Dark Heresy, I won't so much as shrug.



#60 Gamgee

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:36 PM

I agree with the poster that says we should expand into Xeno's rulebooks. An Eldar one would be very much doable. Though I do think Only War will be a good addition.






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