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At first excited, then I read


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#41 Yanma

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:06 PM

TheMetal1 said:

"Though in an era where people genuinely beleive that "Fox News" is an actual news channel, it is hardly surprising."

So...what exactly do mean by this comment and how does this relate to Fortress America?

 

He means that FOX is widely regarded as a thinly veiled engine of right-wing propaganda. He's correct, but off topic.



#42 sepayne7l

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 01:13 PM

Yanma said:

TheMetal1 said:

 

"Though in an era where people genuinely beleive that "Fox News" is an actual news channel, it is hardly surprising."

So...what exactly do mean by this comment and how does this relate to Fortress America?

 

 

 

He means that FOX is widely regarded as a thinly veiled engine of right-wing propaganda. He's correct, but off topic.

Which is similar to saying that MSNBC, CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC are all widely regarded as thinly veiled engines of left-wing propaganda. Which is correct, but off topic.



#43 Alexca1

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 02:51 PM

sepayne7l said:

Which is similar to saying that MSNBC, CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC are all widely regarded as thinly veiled engines of left-wing propaganda. Which is correct, but off topic.

That's a stretch. Off topic, of course, but still a stretch.



#44 LETE

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 03:52 AM

Hi:

 

...Gotta love the original Saddam Hussein cover... Redo it!

 

Go FFG go & be controversial - it rocks!

 

 

...I'd still like to know what Fortress Québec is all aboot.

 

L



#45 LynchMob

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 03:07 PM

I never did get the Saddam Hussein reference. Yes, I have the original box and lid. But, again, this game was put out during the Regan era when Iraq were “Our Good/Bad Gus”. So I don’t think it was really supposed to be Saddam, just something someone thought it looked like after the Gulf war I.
As for Fortress Quebec. Someone mentioned it here as a passing comment, and I as a Nova Scotia -Canadian said that “you don’t eve want to think of opening htat can of worms in English or French CanaDUH. But, then I went on to say, that I’d llike to make one of those many, many A&A rip-off’s using FA rules + pieces to do a Fortress Quebec game. I looked into dividing the Province (or nation at this point) into areas based on their counties. Bad idea, there are just too many of them. Some are tiny, and others are Hugigantic. Also, with my limited knowledge of Quebec soverenty /Separatists, I was trying to think of amusing cards the Quebecois player could use.
 



#46 V0RTEX

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 05:34 PM

sepayne7l said:

The story fluff for the game:

It is the early 21st century. Having suffered a series of devastating terrorist attacks, the U.S. wields a newly developed and horrifyingly destructive weapon technology with desperate fury, lashing out mercilessly at any government suspected of harboring its hidden enemies. Entire nations are erased from the map. The world is stunned by the brutal display. Facing few options, an unlikely coalition of nations joins forces to attempt one final plan: the invasion of America.

Honestly, I think making America the bad guy in this as opposed to generic  bad guys from the original is just stupid. I'm seriously considering on passing on this out of principal. Maybe China will buy them.

What an absurd backstory. I mean, how completely unbelievable that the good ol' U.S of A could develop a "horrifyingly destructive weapon technology" and "lash out mercilessly"... I mean, except for using the A-bomb in WWII...completely unbelievable. 

 

 



#47 SexyMike44

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:11 AM

Asking people who play board games to grow up sounds pretty unrealistic, so I wont waste my time.

But I will say that I'm a born and raised U.S. citizen and I had no problem with the original text. 

FANTASY Flight Games.  Key word being fantasy people. 


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#48 Tromdial

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 06:46 PM

V0RTEX said:

 

What an absurd backstory. I mean, how completely unbelievable that the good ol' U.S of A could develop a "horrifyingly destructive weapon technology" and "lash out mercilessly"... I mean, except for using the A-bomb in WWII...completely unbelievable. 

rofl... just, wow. Hey, the victors of history get to proclaim themselves the heroes. That's the bragging rights.



#49 waging_war

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:40 AM

My God! Some people are real pieces of work. If you don't want to buy a game cause America is the fictional bad guy in the game, then don't buy the game! Sit at home, watch CNN, kiss the screen when Tucker Carlson comes on, and belive you rule the universe. It's a game! Get over yourself. I'm Canadian and I wouldn't ***** if there was a game where Canada was the ideological enemy. Hell, I'd even play it! It's about time there was a game where America isn't the "hero". Then again, that's just my opinion. I am allowed my own opinion right?

P.S. I only read the first few postings on this thread before I got pissed off. So if the whining yank corrected himself since then, I apologize and ignore this post. hahahaha


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#50 Maester_LUke

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:42 PM

LynchMob said:

I never did get the Saddam Hussein reference. Yes, I have the original box and lid. But, again, this game was put out during the Regan era when Iraq were “Our Good/Bad Gus”. So I don’t think it was really supposed to be Saddam, just something someone thought it looked like after the Gulf war I.

As for Fortress Quebec. Someone mentioned it here as a passing comment, and I as a Nova Scotia -Canadian said that “you don’t eve want to think of opening htat can of worms in English or French CanaDUH. But, then I went on to say, that I’d llike to make one of those many, many A&A rip-off’s using FA rules + pieces to do a Fortress Quebec game. I looked into dividing the Province (or nation at this point) into areas based on their counties. Bad idea, there are just too many of them. Some are tiny, and others are Hugigantic. Also, with my limited knowledge of Quebec soverenty /Separatists, I was trying to think of amusing cards the Quebecois player could use.

This makes me think of the background to then-FASA's "Crimson Skies" universe where the US & Canada fragment and realign in inter-war period with a multiplicity of successor states, including Quebec, "The Empire State" and "The Industrial States of America."



#51 Yoper

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:57 AM

TheMetal1 said:

The thing that was annoying for me wasn't that the ad made the US look like the bad guys and world was trying to stop them  - be all you can be with grey area, alternate future, etc. in a game or story etc.  But rather they changed the original premise of the game - especially when there was no need to, because when you do that, you not producing Fotress America, instead you're just using a brand name. 

Exactly!!!!!!  This isn't Monopoly or Life.  A base game with a thin theme piled on top for a specific audience.

I have never gotten this need to overdo the revamping of an already solid game!!!!  Why not just re-release the original game with some minor clean-up/editing work? Maybe an optional (or two) variant added in- a lot like what was done with Conquest of the Empire.

As for the CYA moment concerning the two press releases- see the first part of my post.  Stop trying so hard to be PC about anything concerning this. 

You didn't need to change anything (send it to the creative department, etc.) about the original theme.  It is now a historical "what-if" scenario, instead of a future "what-if".  You just set yourself up for a chance to have an editing screw up.

This is a great game that has deserved a reprint for a long time.  I hope that the few fixes that are done only add to the experience.

Thanks FFG.



#52 Green Tree

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:42 AM

sepayne7l said:

Honestly, I think making America the bad guy in this as opposed to generic  bad guys from the original is just stupid. I'm seriously considering on passing on this out of principal. Maybe China will buy them.

well they changed the back story and flavor text.

I do not like xenophobic brownshirts or those who practice censorship for them. 

 

Lost sale here.



#53 chickenlips

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 07:26 AM

I have the original game and like the premis better in that version.  Mine is one of the early boxes too that had the Sadam image on the front and an image of what looks like the World Trade center on fire.  Kind of creepy given the world events and the game being publish 20 years earlier. 

I love that FF is grabbing some great out of print titles and bringing them back but with some of the games don't necessarily think that changes within the games is good.  FA was a pretty solid mechanic set and to me really didn't need any tweaking (don't know that there is any but just throwing it out there).

Anyway, glad to see it resurface and hope its as good as the original.  As it stands in my collection I have the originals and remakes or Fury of Dracula, Cosmic Encounter, Wiz-war and Dungeonquest.  Can't wait for more info on this version of FA!

   



#54 Nivanti

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:29 AM

Green Tree said:

sepayne7l said:

 

Honestly, I think making America the bad guy in this as opposed to generic  bad guys from the original is just stupid. I'm seriously considering on passing on this out of principal. Maybe China will buy them.

well they changed the back story and flavor text.

 

 

I do not like xenophobic brownshirts or those who practice censorship for them. 

 

Lost sale here.

 

Couldint agree more!

Lost sale here too and probably across most of Europe and after that comment China.



#55 Tromdial

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 05:50 PM

For those who watch anime, I watched a great stand-alone movie called Summer Wars, and the unfolding events immediately made me think about Fortress America and why everyone hypothetically would gang up against the U.S.A. Great movie.

To comment about the boycotting of Fortress America in this forum, I just want to say that I am glad FFG makes quality games. They do a stand-up job. I exclusively buy from them because they make a product that is second to none in artistic flair and cool mechanics. Though I was upset that FFG did not stand by their original game theme that made America the "bad guy", FFG is trying to sell a product as a business. As a business, if they feel they are creating a product that divides and hurts their market, it is a good idea to reevaluate their marketing plan. For those, like me (even as an American myself), who enjoyed the original background where America is a paranoid super-power against a shaky alliance of concerned/power-hungry nations, the original text is still available to read to your players or yourself before playing. I do not however believe it warrants a boycott, whether you believe because it is worth boycotting because what the original text says or because FFG updated the text to be "less offensive". FFG consists a group of human beings and fellow gamers like us, and I believe that if you are boycotting this game, ask yourself if the outrage is really worth the boycott.

These guys make games, and most involve alternate realities. Is it worth getting overly upset about creative writing this much? In the end, I see one side yelling boycott like its the "Third Red Scare", and the other side yelling boycott because FFG humbled their product to make customers like us happy.

I guess my real question is should FFG just not do a re-release of Fortress America? That way everyone will have a reason to be upset, and you may even have people say because of FFG not releasing Fortress America that FFG's games should just be boycotted all-together!

I remember the days in elementary school where just one rebel rouser would ruin it for the entire class. Those days have returned.

In summary, these boycott declarations are silly.


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#56 Doc9

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:30 PM

Tromdial said:

 

I remember the days in elementary school where just one rebel rouser would ruin it for the entire class. Those days have returned.

In summary, these boycott declarations are silly.

 

Yeah sepayne71.



#57 Tromdial

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:42 PM

Doc9 said:

In summary, these boycott declarations are silly.

 

Yeah sepayne71.

Sepayne 71 was never actually the rebel rouser I was addressing. That person shall go unnamed but their first-use of the word "boycott" changed FFG's tune almost immediately and created this domino effect. I am not casting stones at certain heads nor the entitlement of one's opinion, but I am underlining the consequences of unnecessary censorship.

Perhaps I should address this more extensively...



#58 Tromdial

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:34 PM

sepayne7l said:

I really don't want to keep on this thread, because every time someone posts, it moves to the top and REAL discussion of the actual game belongs there, but...

@Tromdial,

This says nothing about freedom of speech. In fact, this entire debate is a tribute to it. If you're suggesting I should not have posted or felt the way I did, then it would make me wonder about you.

My original post does not even suggest you should not buy it, or that the story should be changed. It said I thought it was stupid, I did not like it and was considering passing on purchasing the game because of it.

I didn't think the original back story "asked tough questions." I didn't think it was ambiguous. Although I love theme and story in games (which is one reason I love FFG) this is a theme/story I didn't want to take part in - and I said so.

Also, I may not have been in the minority.

To be belatedly-clear: my reply never called Sepayne 71 out. My reply is #7 of this post. Go ahead, read it and check it out. I'll wait. I also did another lengthy response with reply #14; however, I never truly addressed 71's concerns. I rectify that now.

Again, just because I replied underneath Sepayne's post among numerous other replies, the target was never directly the poster. I was upset that FFG had to change their initial fluff; because I was upset does not meant I was upset at FFG, just upset in general. FFG has a right to market as they see fit.

Yes, the post is a tribute to freedom of speech. I hope FFG never deletes this post because that would alienate the very spirit of this topic. However, boycotts have everything to do with freedom of speech. It's one thing to speak out like Sepayne 71 did (though an indirect way of saying, boycott, I admit). It's another to say, "FFG, I boycott." Enron cut power in California to make multi-millions unethically, insurance companies cut their dependents for the most infinitesimal reasons, and American contractors in foreign nations make a killing by sabotaging the objectives and lives in the guise of promoting the US's intended objectives. When I think of boycott, I think of corporations like these who undermine the U.S.A. and justify such by the lining of their pockets; corporations that abuse their home country by committing such lucrative illegal acts that the loopholes in petty fines justify the means are what people should be outraged about. In a failing economy, we wonder where the money is going. Boycott and activism stem to mind when dealing with entities such as these.

And though these industrial goons ruin and jeopardize human life everyday, we boycott FFG's Fortress America instead.

Again, take a moment to reminisce about what I said. I'll wait.

I support America, as an American citizen, by its foundations but not its present structure. As Julia and I respectively said earlier in this post, America has a very shady past but one can also appreciate the heroes in its midst. I enjoy being an American not because the stars on its flag or my house just happens to sit on its grass but because America stands for having unalienable rights, and though I believe even some of those rights are being abused from their intended purposes, what was intended is the same and is what matters most because that's the grounds and hope for reaching closer to an ideal society.

Because the FFG customer population has spoken loudly enough on this post and the announcement page, I can be more than reasonably assured that the original fluff was welcomed. Actually, I am surprised there is more outrage about America being portrayed as a paranoid superpower than Chaos in the Old World's blatant support of controlling rival demon gods who battle and bathe in the sins and blood of their foes. Heck, the map is made of human skin! Paranoid self-protecting America or hell-bent apocalyptic demon gods who wish to churn your soul for eternity? Hmm, which protagonist is worse...

Despite Chaos's expense for my analogy, I am also not saying one game should be banned over the other; I am merely underlining the silliness again of the idea of boycott (though perhaps some new opinionated threadsters from here will skip on over and rant in Chaos's forums now, ha ha).

You have the freedom to tell FFG you boycott. Not saying you don't. But I have the freedom to also tell you there is better things to get worked up about, and your voice, though important, may want to focus on more incorrigible acts against the public rather than men and women who run a board game industry to distribute entertainment and pay for their day-to-day lives. If you are like Sepayne 71 and wish not to add Fortress America to your collection, that is fine. I respect that. I will never add Android again to my board game collection as was released before this post (though I hope Kevin Wilson gets a green light to do a leaner and more balanced version in the future). Neither proclamations speak boycott. However, telling FFG you boycott and will disrupt their sales because of your outrage is selfish and financially hinders an entertainment company made up of many families who try to get by. FFG last I checked was no Bernard Madoff, or even KFC and McDonalds if you believe you find their animal rights are lacking. FFG was simply creating a fascinating story of an alternate future that has been done many times before. America being the bad guy is typically because an empowered political figure(s) ruin it for the rest of the international outlook. It happens. FFG wanted to run with it and they were shot down because some people could handle demon gods tearing human flesh as they campaign on a skinned map, but not America's frightened backlash that erupts into World War 3.

In summary, if you are going to boycott anything, look into making the real America and other nations around the world a better place before you take it out on Fortress America because you have an unalienable right that says you can.

One of my friends told me what FFG should do is give two, two-sided fluff cards detailing the international plight that is in the fantasy-verse of FFG's Fortress America, whichever you like more you keep, if not both (or none!). Whether you wish to burn the first fluff card while saluting the American flag, more power to ya. I will salute the American flag while just holding my complete FFG Fortress America box. Those with other flags, including China's, can come and salute with me around the world. It will almost be like holding each others hands and singing for world peace.

Then I laugh and crush the dissidents that storm my American beaches!



#59 BigKahuna

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:04 PM

Well I personally liked the first text, it was dark, believable and didn't feed into the mass illusion Americans have of being the worlds good guys.  The updated text smells of political correctness, which is both lame and actually doesn't make any sense at all as a back story.  They should have just stuck to the "lets make China the bad guy" format that American love so much.


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#60 Yoper

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:30 AM

Would anyone have said anything if the second version had been the only version posted?

Maybe a comment or two about a bland back story, but mostly apathetic emptiness would have been the norm.

This really a whole lot of ado about nothing.






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